religious beard discrimination

[dmerlin25]

I don't intend to disclose the recorded conversations. Only for personal reference.

 

[justalayman]

Please don't think I am an expert at the theologies of my religion when I participate in a debate. I simply try to do my best when I choose to honor god with my lifestyle. I do not have any tattoos or piercings, only scars compliments of an adventurous youth and the Marine Corps. I do maintain the hair on my head based on the scriptures in Ezekiel 44:20. I know it is directed at priests but what is wrong with trying to present yourself as holy as a priest.

I don't. I simply thought you might enjoy that website. To me, it's always interesting to see something that explains why the English interpretation we have is what it is and why it may not be perfect, or even incorrect at times.

 

[justalayman]

I don't intend to disclose the recorded conversations. Only for personal reference.

It it illegal to record them at all unless you have permission from the person you are recording

 

[dmerlin25]

It it illegal to record them at all unless you have permission from the person you are recording

Thanks for the advice. I will immediately stop and delete that app from my phone.

 

[dmerlin25]

Now I'm worried that this conversation will be used against me for confessing illegal activity. My employer has more money and resources than most countries. They have dedicated full time resources just for scouring the internet for anything that could be related to them.

 

[tranquility]

Why? Theological debates can be fun.

I'm glad you actually defended my query. It gives some credence to your statements. Not a ton since everything is available on the internet but some.
Lev 19:27



so, do you have a tattoo? Let's hope not.

Do you cut ANY of your hair (shoulders up)?

Since the Bible is not originally written in English, everything in it is a translation. Given there are fine nuances of the definitions of words that do not translate well, the true meaning of anything in the Bible is always worth of discussion. Here is a decent write up regarding a man's hair and beard. It explains based on the verbiage actually used as compared to other words that might have been used if the intent was something different.

http://www.bibleresearch.org/articles/alw5.htm

If you are earnest in your statements it would appear you have been wronged. Best of luck to ya with this.

I would argue with you in doctrinal theory, but will not. Almost all such suits rely on what the OP believes and not what a rational person believes reading texts or hearing lectures hermanutically. If I were not busy, I suspect there is some case law that specifically says why such a discussion is irrelevant. (Inconsistent treatment of the particular belief MAY provide evidence that belief is not sincerely held.)

Religious argument over the person's belief is irrelevant. No one has lost a case because of religious argument.

 

[Dandy Don]

Generally speaking, does your beard present a neat, trimmed appearance or a scraggly, unkempt, "grow-it-as-long-as-I-want-to-grow it" look? Would you be willing to look for other employment?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Again, assuming the OP can prove that the beard is necessary for his religion. There seems to be some question about that.

Not according to xylene apparently.

 

[justalayman]

Generally speaking, does your beard present a neat, trimmed appearance or a scraggly, unkempt, "grow-it-as-long-as-I-want-to-grow it" look? Would you be willing to look for other employment?

it doesn't make any difference as long as the style comports with the style his religion requires. Many religions take the not cutting the stuff pretty literally; Jew, Muslim, Amish, German Baptist and others.

 

[CdwJava]

I may have missed it int these three pages, but, one factor to be considered is money. Will working the front gate result in a loss of base income? Is there a bonus to work those other rotational assignments? If not, and you get paid the same wage to work the front gate as on patrol or another standing post, you may have a weaker argument. As others have stated, the business is permitted to consider their clients when making assignments. If, for some odd reason, members of the community you serve might be offended at your beard, the employer should not have to risk losing the contract simply to accommodate your sudden rediscovery of at least this tenet of your faith (assuming it is ... I don't know).

Since your employer is not saying on, only that you may be limited in posts, any claim you might have might be minimized.

 

[tranquility]

If, for some odd reason, members of the community you serve might be offended at your beard, the employer should not have to risk losing the contract simply to accommodate your sudden rediscovery of at least this tenet of your faith (assuming it is ... I don't know).

Once again, I have doubts as to the OP sincerity. But, if he is, beards have been a winner in many suits except where there needed to be some tight seal between the face and something like a gas mask. (Part of why the police/army and those who must or might have to wear special safety equipment lose their cases.) And, while I completely understand the economic argument, it is not a defense to say you will or have lost customers. Just because a customer does not like "those" kind (No matter what protected category are considered such.) does not give the employer the right to discriminate.

 

[davew128]

I am curious. How would a person of this religion fare if he were a professional baseball player and traded to the New York Yankees? People familiar with the team will understand the question and why its asked.

 

[cbg]

Dave, you just made me giggle.

In 2004, I used to go in and help out a neighbor who was 96 years old and was mostly okay on her own but needed a bit of help with meals and changing clothes. She was a huge Red Sox fan but she thoroughly disapproved of Johnny Damon. Every time she saw him she would cluck her tongue and announce, "They should make him cut his hair".

She had passed away by the time Damon went to the Yankees (sadly, she had passed away before that wonderful, wonderful October) but I couldn't help thinking of what her reaction would have been.

 

[CdwJava]

Once again, I have doubts as to the OP sincerity. But, if he is, beards have been a winner in many suits except where there needed to be some tight seal between the face and something like a gas mask. (Part of why the police/army and those who must or might have to wear special safety equipment lose their cases.) And, while I completely understand the economic argument, it is not a defense to say you will or have lost customers. Just because a customer does not like "those" kind (No matter what protected category are considered such.) does not give the employer the right to discriminate.

I might agree with that, but, if the OP is not being compelled to take a pay cut and only being limited in assignments, is it still discriminatory? The employer is not saying he cannot have the beard, only that they may limit where he works. In general, administration has the freedom to make work assignments so I would think that this might undercut any discrimination claim. I know that the scheduling prerogative has been a winner for public agencies in CA, but I cannot say whether it might be in this arena or in the private sector in the OP's state.

Whether he has the means to try and pursue a claim against his employer or not is something only he can answer.

 

[justalayman]

In the simplest terms; the employer cannot take any action becausenof the beard unless there is a valid reason such as with the gas maask.


With respect to religion, Title VII prohibits among other things:

disparate treatment based on religion in recruitment, hiring, promotion, benefits, training, job duties, termination, or any other aspect of employment (except that "religious organizations" as defined under


What we are speaking of is disparate treatment in assignment of the job duties.