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Wife is pregnant - My sick leave request DENIED - Next step?

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billxxx_2005

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? TEXAS

Looking for some insight. I requested two weeks of sick leave (paid leave) prior to the birth of my child. I also requested 4 weeks of sick leave from "birthdate" forward. The sick leave PRIOR was denied by my management on the basis that "just a pregnancy" is not sufficient justification alone. This denial was in email from the manager who denied it.

I want to play the "company man" and obtain additional guidance from OPM which I can politely present and thus justify my position. On the other hand I am growing weary of the bullying by this manager, who has no respect agency-wide and is known as an idiot.

I work for the federal government, with over 10 years of service.

Next step?
 


CJane

Senior Member
Is there a differentiation in your PTO between 'sick' leave and 'personal time'?

If so, it's possible that 'sick' leave cannot be granted in advance unless it's for medical leave for YOU personally. You'd have to use 'personal' or 'vacation' time.

You could also put in for FMLA after the birth, but it would be unpaid.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
The employer is under no legal obligation to provide you with paid sick leave when you are not the one who is ill. If FMLA does not apply, they have no legal obligation to allow you time off at all.

IF you and your employer both qualify for FMLA, you can take unpaid leave for this purpose.
 

billxxx_2005

Junior Member
It is my understanding that I, the fed employee spouse of my pregnant wife, may take sick leave, instead of Family Leave, for those purposes that Family Leave is permissable.

See section 630.1203 (a)(1) here

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20061500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2006/janqtr/5cfr630.1203.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subpart L_Family and Medical Leave

Sec. 630.1203 Leave entitlement.

(a) An employee shall be entitled to a total of 12 administrative
workweeks of unpaid leave during any 12-month period for one or more of
the following reasons:
(1) The birth of a son or daughter of the employee and the care of
such son or daughter;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is also my understanding that per 630.1205 (b)(1) I can use my sick leave balance for Family Leave Act purposes

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20061500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2006/janqtr/5cfr630.1205.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subpart L_Family and Medical Leave

Sec. 630.1205 Substitution of paid leave.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, leave taken
under Sec. 630.1203(a) of this part shall be leave without pay.
(b) An employee may elect to substitute the following paid leave for
any or all of the period of leave without pay to be taken under Sec.
630.1203(a)--
(1) Accrued or accumulated annual or sick leave under subchapter I
of chapter 63 of title 5, United States Code, consistent with current
law and regulations governing the granting and use of annual or sick
leave;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comments?
 
Last edited:

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
You are misinterpreting. You are not entitled to take sick leave INSTEAD of FMLA - you may take sick leave AS PART OF FMLA.

So; do you meet the criteria for FMLA? The ONLY way your employer is obligated under the law to give you time off on the occasion of the birth of a child is if FMLA applies, whether you take sick pay as part of it or not.
 

billxxx_2005

Junior Member
You are misinterpreting. You are not entitled to take sick leave INSTEAD of FMLA - you may take sick leave AS PART OF FMLA.

So; do you meet the criteria for FMLA? The ONLY way your employer is obligated under the law to give you time off on the occasion of the birth of a child is if FMLA applies, whether you take sick pay as part of it or not.
I suppose my request is "Use of paid sick leave for Family Leave Act purposes" which appears to be possible, per

Subpart L_Family and Medical Leave

Sec. 630.1205 Substitution of paid leave.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, leave taken
under Sec. 630.1203(a) of this part shall be leave without pay.
(b) An employee may elect to substitute the following paid leave for
any or all of the period of leave without pay to be taken under Sec.
630.1203(a)--

(1) Accrued or accumulated annual or sick leave under subchapter I
of chapter 63 of title 5, United States Code, consistent with current
law and regulations governing the granting and use of annual or sick
leave;

In addition, it appears Family Leave Act does apply, please see

http://www.opm.gov/oca/leave/HTML/fmlafac2.asp

http://www.opm.gov/oca/LEAVE/HTML/12week.asp
 
Last edited:

mlane58

Senior Member
I suppose my request is "Use of paid sick leave for Family Leave Act purposes" which appears to be possible, per

Subpart L_Family and Medical Leave

Sec. 630.1205 Substitution of paid leave.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, leave taken
under Sec. 630.1203(a) of this part shall be leave without pay.
(b) An employee may elect to substitute the following paid leave for
any or all of the period of leave without pay to be taken under Sec.
630.1203(a)--

(1) Accrued or accumulated annual or sick leave under subchapter I
of chapter 63 of title 5, United States Code, consistent with current
law and regulations governing the granting and use of annual or sick
leave;

In addition, it appears Family Leave Act does apply, please see

http://www.opm.gov/oca/leave/HTML/fmlafac2.asp

http://www.opm.gov/oca/LEAVE/HTML/12week.asp
You are not listening, YOU MAY take sick while on FMLA and unless you and your employer meet certain criteria, we don't whether you qualify for FMLA or not.
1. how many employees are there within a 75 mile raidius?
2. how long have you worked for your current employer?
3. how many hours did you work in the past 12 months?

Tell us the answers to those three questions and we can give you more guidance.
 

billxxx_2005

Junior Member
You are not listening, YOU MAY take sick while on FMLA and unless you and your employer meet certain criteria, we don't whether you qualify for FMLA or not.
1. how many employees are there within a 75 mile raidius?
2. how long have you worked for your current employer?
3. how many hours did you work in the past 12 months?

Tell us the answers to those three questions and we can give you more guidance.
1- over 100
2. over 10 years
3. I am a fulltime employee, working easily 50+ hours each week, since I got hired 10 years ago

Also, please note that it appears sick leave may be taken "for birth of a son or daughter", per FMLA, BEFORE the birth, according to 630.1203(d). 630.1207(c) states that leave requests under FMLA (obviously must meet FMLA critieria....) cannot be denied.
 

mlane58

Senior Member
Your links refer to the Office of Personnel Management and unless you work for the federal government, they are irrelevent. The proper link is:
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_825/29CFR825.207.htm and refer to 29 CFR 825.207 (c) which reads:

(c) Substitution of paid accrued vacation, personal, or medical/sick
leave may be made for any (otherwise) unpaid FMLA leave needed to care
for a family member or the employee's own serious health condition.
Substitution of paid sick/medical leave may be elected to the extent the
circumstances meet the employer's usual requirements for the use of
sick/medical leave. An employer is not required to allow substitution of
paid sick or medical leave for unpaid FMLA leave ``in any situation''
where the employer's uniform policy would not normally allow such paid
leave.
An employee, therefore, has a right to substitute paid medical/
sick leave to care for a seriously ill family member only if the
employer's leave plan allows paid leave to be used for that purpose.

Similarly, an employee does not have a right to substitute paid medical/
sick leave for a serious health condition which is not covered by the
employer's leave plan.

So if your employer doesn't allow for for paid leave to be used in that fashion, then the employer isn't obligated.
 

mitousmom

Member
Per OPM regulations:

A birth father may use a total of up to 12 weeks of accrued sick leave each year to accompany the mother to prenatal appointments, to be with her during her period of hospitalization, and/or to care for her during her recovery period. (Most doctors certify that the recovery period is about 6 weeks.) An agency may request administratively acceptable evidence of the mother's period of incapacitation for the use of sick leave.​
http://www.opm.gov/oca/leave/HTML/childbirthfs.asp

Therefore, you are not entitled to use sick leave for the two week period prior to your child's birth, unless you can qualify for it because you are caring for a family member with a serious health condition. Pregnancy is not considered a serious health condition.

You can request annual leave for those two weeks and see if your supervisor will approve it (he doesn't have to approve it) or take unpaid leave under FMLA. OPM's website is good place to begin your research on federal rules and benefits. It has a fairly good search feature.

Most working people aren't idiots and it's best not to treat your supervisor as one. In this case, he appears to know the leave rules better than you do.
 

Betty

Senior Member
Silverplum - you & I must have been typing our posts at the same time but I was slow to get mine submitted off.
 

enjay

Member
If your wife is bedridden and needs you to care for her, have her physician fill out the appropriate paperwork and take FMLA.

If you want to two weeks off to paint the nursery, entertain family members, or relax because life is about to get more interesting, you are out of luck as far as FMLA is concerned.
 

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