14yr old son - attacked in library while defending someone else - BUT

[mettmann]

What is the name of your state? Calif

this is long - please bear with me..

My son was roughed up by another boy in the school library 2 days ago.

The problem is this: Assault , Profanity, Hate Crime (?)

My son observed the boy that hit him later (with a group of 2 other boys) , harrassing another boy in the library. As far as my son recalls, the librarian was not in sight. My son went over to comfort the boy being harrased , and told him ... that's ok, they are *******s.." the Boy that hit my son stated - ..."**** you white boy..." to which my son replied - "...**** you Asian *******.."

Needless to say - both kids handled this wrong, however, the other boy whom my son was referring to , decided to place my son in a headlock, twice - once after he choked him and let go, and then again, after which my son felt he was going to pass out..

I will add - that my son is a brown belt in Tae Kwon Do - and he was told never to hurt another but in self defense - HOWEVER - my son noted that this kid used a headlock tactic that only someone that knows martial arts would use ( in an offensive manner)

Alot other detail is involved - but, I will add the boy who had my son in the headlock also stated to my son that he had friends in high school , AND that he had guns at home - so he'd better watch out.

The boy that assualted my son then left, leaving the two remaining boys to taunting my son - to the point that when my son finally got to the office, the other two boys still remained , in wait, by the office door.

In addition - my son ran into one of his teachers that happened to walk by the front seating area. After he was asked by the teacher why he was in the office, and my son told him - he stated "oh.." and then left (???????)

Bottom line - my son was asked to write up a summary of what occured , and bring into the school, where he ( and I would later ) meet with the Asst Principal the following morning.

Initially - the Asst Principal sided with my son - he would get counsel for the racial slur - AND the othe boy suspended. He also suggested I file a report (not assault charges) with the local PD. My son was went with me, and truthfully told the officer what had occurred , racial slurs, the headlock, the comments about high school friends, and the GUNS and all..

My son was asked to leave the room - the PD stated that although I can file, my son could also be charged with a HATE CRIME (???) and that the Asst Principal would have to reconsider his first assesment until the officer does a field interview later this morning.. In addition - some other stories from another group of witnesses stated that it was MY son that stated the gun - not the other boy.

After receiving the pamplhlet at the PD about HATE CRIME - a racial slur could be seen as such. That was a first, to me, and my son.

BUT I will argue that :
My son has NEVER been involved in a fight at school
A Racial Slur does not give one the right to hit another
My son deserves counseling for the racial slur - very stupid on his part
He should have never gotten involed - while noble on this part - he should had remained a good witness (as I was told by the officer) and reported it to another adult - my son told me there was none..
My son was never made aware (nor I was ) by the school that a racial slur could be viewed as a Hate Crime. The definition is NOT Noted in the Student Handbook
My son was remorseful for calling the boy a racial name
And what about the accountability of - lack of supervision within the library, and the duty as a teacher (the one my son ran into the office) to see what could be done of the two other boys waiting for my son outside the office?

Any thoughts would be appreciated - thanks..

 

[stealth2]

My son was never made aware (nor I was ) by the school that a racial slur could be viewed as a Hate Crime. The definition is NOT Noted in the Student Handbook

I'll leave the legalities of the rest to others, but not using racial slurs is something that should have been taught at home. He (and you) shouldn't have needed a student handbook to know that it's something one doesn't do.

 

[mettmann]

I'll leave the legalities of the rest to others, but not using racial slurs is something that should have been taught at home. He (and you) shouldn't have needed a student handbook to know that it's something one doesn't do.

I understand your point - and as I mentioned - my son (we) knew it was morally wrong - but how does that negate the physical attack on him AND about calling somone a racial slur in California being considered legally a HATE CRIME - would you have been aware of that???

where is due process to let anyone know of the consequence for a "CRIME" that he didn't even know he committed?

As well - the boy also also implied using a gun as a threat?
Thanks

 

[stealth2]

It wouldn't surprise me at all that calling someone a racial epithet would be considered a hate crime. Although my kids would be more concerned about the reaction they'd get at home for it than anything the law could throw at them.

As for the gun threat - there are apparently witnesses who place those threats on YOUR son.

 

[CdwJava]

My son has NEVER been involved in a fight at school

Not relevent to the criminal proceeding.

A Racial Slur does not give one the right to hit another

True. But there must be some reason why the school and the police are not as concerned with your son being assaulted or the other kid being picked on. Is the story they get from others different?

My son deserves counseling for the racial slur - very stupid on his part

Okay. But when you add an assault to a slur it can be seen as a hate crime.

He should have never gotten involed - while noble on this part - he should had remained a good witness (as I was told by the officer) and reported it to another adult - my son told me there was none..

This would have been a better idea.

My son was never made aware (nor I was ) by the school that a racial slur could be viewed as a Hate Crime. The definition is NOT Noted in the Student Handbook

As they say, "Ignorance of the law ..."

Fortunately, I see this as a weak case for hate crime ienhancement per PC 422.6.

My son was remorseful for calling the boy a racial name

Okay. And still legally irrelevant.

And what about the accountability of - lack of supervision within the library, and the duty as a teacher (the one my son ran into the office) to see what could be done of the two other boys waiting for my son outside the office?

The supervision issue is moot unless the school had a reasonable belief that someone would be injured in that part of the library if no staff member was there to protect them.

But, I suppose you could sue the school. After all, the parents of students at Columbine managed to successfully do so for some reason.

Final note ... Hire an attorney for your son ASAP.

- Carl

 

[mettmann]

Thanks for the replies - a more detailed reply...

My son was thoroughly talked to after he came home. Both on the day of the incident – and yesterday after the PD visit. My wife and I both challenging him for the stupid use of a racial slur, and why he chose to get involved rather than report.

The gun threat was 100% factual according to my son - both in his written recap to school, the initial follow-up meeting with the Asst Principal, as well as to what he told the reporting officer. Of course, as his father, I would have tilt to favor my son regarding the gun "threat". That doesn't mean, however, that he's not culpable for the racial slur...

Ignorance - well, to say that my son or my wife and I were ignorant does not consider that we never knew the legal definition of a Hate Crime - (in the 9 years at the same school district - we were never given any acknowledgement that refers to Hate Crimes as such, it's definition, and implications) therefore I would challenge that prosecuting someone for a law that they were not aware existed (my son) and implying that racial slurs are treated as such, could be refuted.

Again - he did wrong, he was completely unaware of its legal consequences - just like the boy that hit him.

"Hate Crimes”, no mention to the exact language, only "hate violence" - but there is no legal definition of such laws, or regulation stated on the school or district website. NOR, is its proper dissemination to the student body and parents discussed at any length (as far as I can ascertain) within California Educational and Penal Codes (that I googled..).

So - How is one supposed to be in "told" they are in compliance? TV? Movies? News? Video Games? - I will play devil's advocate - what IF, my son (nor us) never watched TV, read the paper, saw movies or played Video games - any of which would lead to the possibility of Hate Crimes or its legal term being brought up. Shame on us for not knowing something we knew nothing about?

Is it 100% beyond all reasonable doubt that my son willfully violated a civil law??
Hence , my remark that he has never been in trouble – therefore , a conclusion could be made that he may be less prone to unlawful behavior – OR – the incident be treated as an exception.

Recall, my son was the first one that was provoked by a racial slur - , then came his untimely racial retort of his own to the other boy, then that boy attacked my son...

Which then - leads me to the definition of a Hate Crime - under the site for the LA DA's site... http://da.co.la.ca.us/hate/hcdefined.htm

"Hate crimes are criminal acts or attempted criminal acts against an individual or group of individuals because of their actual or perceived race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, or disability." it continues.. “Using force or threatening to use force to injure, intimidate, or interfere with another person who is exercising his or her constitutional rights”

To clarify - since my son was the one that was attacked - after he used a racial slur - are his rights abridged?

P.C. 422.6 – Use of force, threats or destruction of property to interfere with another’s exercise of civil rights.

To answer the other question offered - yes, apparently the stories did not jive - from other witnesses (friends of each) whom I'm sure the credibility would be questioned. The disconnect caused the Asst Principal and the PD to rethink and then - interview both boys and any others involved today - I'm still awaiting the outcome as I write this reply...

I am not condoning my son's use of the slur - he admitted it - he should, if not already done so, apologized to the boy for it's use .

I have no intention to sue the school - as a parent, my son has the right to a safe learning environment. If the kid that hit my kid gets the reprimand, and put on notice - so be it. If my son is counseled for the use of a racial slur - and its legal implications - good enough. I would not consider, although I was told by both the school and PD, I was within my rights, to press charges. It does not gonna solve anything...

In my opinion - I still need clarity on whether or not using a racial slur by saying "F%^K off (racial ethnic slur) B#$%^D" constitutes a threat - or if completely drawn out - a hate incident.

And if my son’s behavior then negated his own assault..

And, I am unclear if the other boys that lied in wait by the office (verified by several witnesses, including my wife when she arrived to pick my son up) should be counseled for their collaboration..

I’m off my soapbox – as a parent, I just want to be assured that both boys (especially my son) realize the impact their actions caused, on his immediate family, their friends, and most likely, the other boy’s parents…

Thanks again to you both for your input -

 

[CdwJava]

The gun threat was 100% factual according to my son - both in his written recap to school, the initial follow-up meeting with the Asst Principal, as well as to what he told the reporting officer. Of course, as his father, I would have tilt to favor my son regarding the gun "threat".

mking such a threat is almost certainly a violation of school policy, but is not likely a violation of the law regarding criminal threats absent some additional elements (per PC 422).

prosecuting someone for a law that they were not aware existed (my son) and implying that racial slurs are treated as such, could be refuted.

Racial slurs used in the commission of another offense (such as battery) CAN be provided a "hate crime" enhancement pursuant to PC 422.6. Whether it will fly or not depends on the jury or the court.

Again - he did wrong, he was completely unaware of its legal consequences - just like the boy that hit him.

Legally, his lack of awareness of the law is irrelevent.

"Hate Crimes”, no mention to the exact language, only "hate violence" - but there is no legal definition of such laws, or regulation stated on the school or district website.

Not relevant for the purposes of a criminal prosecution.

Keep in mind that a "hate crime" is an enhancement to a crime in CA, it is not a crime by itself. When the crime is committed to violate the civil rights of another person (in this case, based on race) then the enhancement can be made. It is not common in cases like this, but it is a good reason to consult an attorney.

Shame on us for not knowing something we knew nothing about?

There are probably a lot of laws you are unaware of but will be held accountable for all the same.

Is it 100% beyond all reasonable doubt that my son willfully violated a civil law??

School policy is one thing ... a hate crime enhancement to battery is a criminal law - a violation of the CA Penal Code. (PC 240/242 for the assault and battery, and PC 422.6 for the H.C enhancement.)

Hence , my remark that he has never been in trouble – therefore , a conclusion could be made that he may be less prone to unlawful behavior – OR – the incident be treated as an exception.

Playing devil's advocate myself, the inference can also be made that he has simply never been caught.

Recall, my son was the first one that was provoked by a racial slur - , then came his untimely racial retort of his own to the other boy, then that boy attacked my son...

I am certainly not saying that your son is the sole guilty party here, but I can certainly see where he could be criminally charged in court as well as disciplined by the school.

Which then - leads me to the definition of a Hate Crime - under the site for the LA DA's site... http://da.co.la.ca.us/hate/hcdefined.htm

"Hate crimes are criminal acts or attempted criminal acts against an individual or group of individuals because of their actual or perceived race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, or disability." it continues.. “Using force or threatening to use force to injure, intimidate, or interfere with another person who is exercising his or her constitutional rights”

Sounds like PC 422.6

To clarify - since my son was the one that was attacked - after he used a racial slur - are his rights abridged?

It would seem the other person could be charged for battery as well. The apparent fact that he was NOT charged does not make your son any less guilty for his part. It may also demonstrate that there are other versions of the events that do not place your son in such a fine and benign light as his rendition to you has.

In my opinion - I still need clarity on whether or not using a racial slur by saying "F%^K off (racial ethnic slur) B#$%^D" constitutes a threat - or if completely drawn out - a hate incident.

A "threat", no. A disturbance of the peace (words likely to cause a violent response) pursuant to PC 415 - yes.

And if my son’s behavior then negated his own assault..

From the criminal perspective only self defense could negate the assault and that would be a defense to be raised in court.

- Carl

 

[mettmann]

Thanks Carl - I appreciate the level headed responses.

Obviously, as the parent - I'm trying to keep clear my emotions to make rational decisions based on facts -my hope is that both kids learn a huge lesson from this - and move on..

I will keep your advise regarding counsel - especially, if the outcome causes further escalation..

 

[Happy Trails]

Thanks Carl - I appreciate the level headed responses.

Obviously, as the parent - I'm trying to keep clear my emotions to make rational decisions based on facts -my hope is that both kids learn a huge lesson from this - and move on..

I will keep your advise regarding counsel - especially, if the outcome causes further escalation..

You keeping an open mind here is refreshing.

This forum is used to dealing with people that are quite frazzled and some don't like the responses they get, even if it is correct.

 

[mettmann]

You keeping an open mind here is refreshing.

This forum is used to dealing with people that are quite frazzled and some don't like the responses they get, even if it is correct.

Thank you!!!

I have an update from the Asst Principal and the officer...

Based on the comments of three other boys (friends of the boy that hit my son) - they stated that my son was the first to strike, by punching the kid in the stomach.

As mentioned - my son stood by his original version; racial slurs were exchanged, and the other kid grabbed my son and placed him in a headlock. He also stood by this version, through "discussion" with my wife and I, and the Asst principal and officer the following day. This version also stood during today's meeting between the Asst Principal, the reporting PD officer, a guidance counselor, the other boy and my son.

Rather than drag this out - the officer deemed it "mutual combat" and warned both the boy and my son that any continued fighting will lead to an arrest. Counseling only - end of story.

In respect to the Gun remark by the other boy - my son , although in the same room, did not pay attention to his verbal answer, although according to my son, it "seems" that the other boy probably didn't realize the severity of using the phrase, by the reaction he gave the officer...

The other boy was also cited for still having, in his possession during the interview, the laser pointer used to harass the boy my son stood up for (sorry, forgot to mention in OP) , as well as a "sharpie" marker - which is against school policy.

The officer also plans on meeting directly with the boy's parent's later today or tomorrow to discuss what has occurred.

The teacher that originally bumped into my son at the office - he presumed that since my son was already in the office, the situation had been diffused...

Off record, the Asst Principal mentioned that he felt my son was mostly likely the victim - he just took things into his own hands when he should have backed off...

More importantly, my son feels relived that hopefully this is all behind them , and they can finish off the last few weeks of school..

Thanks again to all for the replies - appreciate the feedback through a tough time...

 

[stealth2]

My wife and I both challenging him for the stupid use of a racial slur

I'm glad things seem to have worked out positively for your son. But I have to ask - what is a NONstupid use of a racial slur?