16 yr old convicted felon

[Faerie64]

What is the name of your state? North Carolina


yes, I know, one of only three states that convicts 16 and 17 year olds as adults!

My son was convicted last year of 2 counts felony b&i and larceny. He was with two other boys who were 15 (considered juvenile in this state). All items except for one $125 digital camera were returned. he was still ordered to pay resitution to the court. He has been unable to pay these fines and fees due to: he was 16 and had no drivers license, nor could he get one due to the laws in this state---who will hire a 16 yr old felon? So no job, no money.

Are we, as his parents, financially responsible for these restitutions because *really* he is a minor still living in our houses (his father and I are divorced)??? If they are going to try him as adult, would they not also assume the *convicted* would be the one responsible for the fees?

Also, the victims home owners insurance company is now suing us, the guilty party's parents for $2000 (have not seen the itemized list of what this supposively covers). Are we also supposed to be responsible for this as well?

And lastly, what of the other boys that *were* part of this crime? I know for fact that these boys stole at this crime and have stolen from this particular victim before. Are their parents not responsible for anything, even if their children were minors at the time of the crime?

it seems horribly unjust that my son takes the burden of the entire crime. Because of our laws here, the state has basically rendered him dependent on anyone or group that will help him as his life goes by. What a sad and sorry place for him to be in!

Thanks for all of your help. Wish I could afford a real, honest, hard working lawyer!

edit to add that this was his first and only offense. His father hired a private attorney for his original hearing and I think that cast an unfavorable light upon my son, and even if unspoken, make the sitting judge assume things she should not have!

 

[Silverplum]

Wish I could afford a real, honest, hard working lawyer!

vs.

His father hired a private attorney for his original hearing and I think that cast an unfavorable light upon my son, and even if unspoken, make the sitting judge assume things she should not have!

The contradiction is killing me...

(among other things)

 

[Faerie64]

His father and I are divorced. I had nothing to do with his original hiring of a private attorney. I begged him to let my son use the court appointed attorney. He scoffed me off. So, my son got pretty much the worst of it, short of jail time (which my son has said had he served time, he would be done and through with all of this already...a good and valid point)

so, I was wishing for *myself* to have the ability to hire a good attorney for him for round two that he faces because he violated his probation by not being able to pay his restitution and fees.

does that make more sense?

 

[Faerie64]

bump.

No one?

Only someone that wanted to ridicule my post?

 

[Ohiogal]

bump.

No one?

Only someone that wanted to ridicule my post?

I'm an attorney but since I actually charge clients you probably wouldn't like my answers but here is the truth:

You and daddy are responsible legally for your child until he turns 18. You can be sued jointly and severally for the crime committed by your precious angel and the other parents. He can be held entirely responsible or responsible for just his portion. If held entirely responsible then YOU and daddy get to sue the other parents for their portion of the cost.

Who was paying for the attorney does NOT matter. Your child committed a felony. The judge doesn't even KNOW who pays for the attorney unless you tell him. Nor does it matter when it comes to imposing a sentence.

So prepare to be sued by the home insurance for the victims of your son. Prepare also to be forced to reimburse them.

 

[mike_lee]

Here is my opinion, others see things another way.

You got everything backwards when it comes to lawyers. Lawyers win by violence, by presenting precedents, controlling what the prosecutor can present, keeping cops honest, finding loopholes etc. It doesn't matter if it pisses off the judge or not. They argue the law and the judge will go along even when he suspects the defendant is guilty (obviously there are shades of gray in this)

The judge is not supposed to represent the state although many people are under that impression. He's there to "judge" both sides or preside over a jury.

Words will fail me trying to explain just how bad the average public defender is, they simply have no motivation to win and take the first deal offered. A public defender is almost the same as pleading guilty, absolutely worthless. There's about one month between passing the bar and the moment reality hits where they might actually help, but don't count on it. And there are cities that hire actual lawyers to represent you don't count on that either.

 

[Ohiogal]

Here is my opinion, others see things another way.

You got everything backwards when it comes to lawyers. Lawyers win by violence, by presenting precedents, controlling what the prosecutor can present, keeping cops honest, finding loopholes etc. It doesn't matter if it pisses off the judge or not. They argue the law and the judge will go along even when he suspects the defendant is guilty (obviously there are shades of gray in this)

The judge is not supposed to represent the state although many people are under that impression. He's there to "judge" both sides or preside over a jury.

Words will fail me trying to explain just how bad the average public defender is, they simply have no motivation to win and take the first deal offered. A public defender is almost the same as pleading guilty, absolutely worthless. There's about one month between passing the bar and the moment reality hits where they might actually help, but don't count on it. And there are cities that hire actual lawyers to represent you don't count on that either.

You are so far out of line with what you just aid it is not even funny. Congrats. I nominate you for idiotic post of the moment. But don't get too comfortable. Someone else is bound to knock you out of that seat.

 

[Faerie64]

I'm an attorney but since I actually charge clients you probably wouldn't like my answers but here is the truth:

You and daddy are responsible legally for your child until he turns 18. You can be sued jointly and severally for the crime committed by your precious angel and the other parents. He can be held entirely responsible or responsible for just his portion. If held entirely responsible then YOU and daddy get to sue the other parents for their portion of the cost.

Who was paying for the attorney does NOT matter. Your child committed a felony. The judge doesn't even KNOW who pays for the attorney unless you tell him. Nor does it matter when it comes to imposing a sentence.

So prepare to be sued by the home insurance for the victims of your son. Prepare also to be forced to reimburse them.

Well, I expected as much, and I thank you for your bluntness. Someone should say it like it is anyway.

Actually, I've been told by other parents that in reality, the punishment is more racially motivated than what anyone would ever say. Seems to reason anyway and makes perfect sense in the big picture. Is this what happened? Who knows?

All I do know is that his "attorney" who was hired privately by his father, told him to plead guilty and then did absolutely F all for him in terms of what his probable sentencing would be. It was a farce. And, I cannot see a public defender doing any worse, quite frankly!

What I really want to know is this....if by law I am responsible for him until he is 18, then why do his probation officers refuse to discuss anything with me? Would it not make perfect sense to share (with those parents that actually give a care) anything and everything to help the kid along? It seems so ridiculous to me to just brush us off like we have nothing to do with his life. I assume they assume that we fit into some sort of stereo type that is a parental unit that isn't there, that doesn't care and generally were never parents to begin with.

My ex husband has already informed the insurance company that if they want the money, first they will have to send him a copy of all the damages and items being claimed and after that, i suppose he will tell them to see him in court (he's a natural ass this way).

And, while I appreciate your response to my question, I never said he was a precious angel. Thanks.

 

[garrula lingua]

I don't get it.

Dad paid for an atty when kid was charged,
and Mom's willing to pay to hire an attorney for his VOP,
but each allowed kid to violate the terms of probation by not paying restitution as ordered (which would be less $ than an atty did & will cost).

Both parents and kid are thicker than pigpoo.

Many of us had jobs at 15; why wasn't kid earning $ to pay his fines & restitution ?
OP sounds more worried about the $ she may be on the hook for, rather than her son's future and the effect he had on his victims.

 

[Ohiogal]

I don't get it.

Dad paid for an atty when kid was charged,
and Mom's willing to pay to hire an attorney for his VOP,
but each allowed kid to violate the terms of probation by not paying restitution as ordered (which would be less $ than an atty did & will cost).

Both parents and kid are thicker than pigpoo.

Many of us had jobs at 15; why wasn't kid earning $ to pay his fines & restitution ?
OP sounds more worried about the $ she may be on the hook for, rather than her son's future and the effect he had on his victims.

Read the other thread she posted on regarding trespassing, alcohol, littering and probation.

 

[Faerie64]

well, his father is just an a$$ like that. will hire an attorney, but won't help him with restitution and fees. I, on the other hand, would *love* to be able to do both, but I'm not exactly rolling in dough, either. As it stands, his restitution and fees combined come to $840 plus $150 for the drug assessment class they required him to take (even though he was never charged with any drug offenses, so I'm gathering they just do this to all juvenile offenders?). Anyway, that is a lot of money. A lot of money for someone who doesn't make anything extra to live on (me) and even more...probably looks like a giant mountain, to my son.

My son has applied for, at last count, 16 different jobs in our area that are within walking or bicycle distance and has re-applied again after their 3 month time for the application not being good anymore. Really, I defy YOU to find a job at the same age without a drivers license and having to tick off the box that says you are a convicted felon. *Everyone* says, "get a job", but no one is willing to hire him. And we have certain laws here in NC that keeps under 18 yr olds off construction sites and operating equipment for say, a lawn maintenance job. And, what with our current drought, lawn maintenance small companies are suffering and not hiring as it stands anyway.

Once again, a response to my questions basically just turned into a "lets just ridicule the concerned parent" about how crappy I am or how crappy my son is.

And yes, I am concerned about being forced to pay his fees. I don't have it either! I'm living pay check to pay check as it is and fearing having to get another job just to pay for the outrageous cost of gas! So back off on me, my concerns are very valid.

 

[Ohiogal]

Well, I expected as much, and I thank you for your bluntness. Someone should say it like it is anyway.

Actually, I've been told by other parents that in reality, the punishment is more racially motivated than what anyone would ever say. Seems to reason anyway and makes perfect sense in the big picture. Is this what happened? Who knows?

All I do know is that his "attorney" who was hired privately by his father, told him to plead guilty and then did absolutely F all for him in terms of what his probable sentencing would be. It was a farce. And, I cannot see a public defender doing any worse, quite frankly!

What I really want to know is this....if by law I am responsible for him until he is 18, then why do his probation officers refuse to discuss anything with me? Would it not make perfect sense to share (with those parents that actually give a care) anything and everything to help the kid along? It seems so ridiculous to me to just brush us off like we have nothing to do with his life. I assume they assume that we fit into some sort of stereo type that is a parental unit that isn't there, that doesn't care and generally were never parents to begin with.

My ex husband has already informed the insurance company that if they want the money, first they will have to send him a copy of all the damages and items being claimed and after that, i suppose he will tell them to see him in court (he's a natural ass this way).

And, while I appreciate your response to my question, I never said he was a precious angel. Thanks.

Because there is CONFIDENTIALITY with the probation officer. They are legally restricted -- they can talk to the court and their client. not to client's mommy and daddy. Your son was old enough to commit the crime and hence HE gets to do the time. Now you and your ex can be sued because you are financially responsible for him. He cannot be sued so therefore YOU are. It makes perfect sense.

As for your ex being a natural ass -- you are not too far ahead of him. Have YOU contacted the insurance company to work it out?

 

[Ohiogal]

well, his father is just an a$$ like that. will hire an attorney, but won't help him with restitution and fees. I, on the other hand, would *love* to be able to do both, but I'm not exactly rolling in dough, either. As it stands, his restitution and fees combined come to $840 plus $150 for the drug assessment class they required him to take (even though he was never charged with any drug offenses, so I'm gathering they just do this to all juvenile offenders?). Anyway, that is a lot of money. A lot of money for someone who doesn't make anything extra to live on (me) and even more...probably looks like a giant mountain, to my son.

My son has applied for, at last count, 16 different jobs in our area that are within walking or bicycle distance and has re-applied again after their 3 month time for the application not being good anymore. Really, I defy YOU to find a job at the same age without a drivers license and having to tick off the box that says you are a convicted felon. *Everyone* says, "get a job", but no one is willing to hire him. And we have certain laws here in NC that keeps under 18 yr olds off construction sites and operating equipment for say, a lawn maintenance job. And, what with our current drought, lawn maintenance small companies are suffering and not hiring as it stands anyway.

Once again, a response to my questions basically just turned into a "lets just ridicule the concerned parent" about how crappy I am or how crappy my son is.

And yes, I am concerned about being forced to pay his fees. I don't have it either! I'm living pay check to pay check as it is and fearing having to get another job just to pay for the outrageous cost of gas! So back off on me, my concerns are very valid.

THERE are consequences. Your son is feeling them. Why? Because he decided he could commit a felony and did so. Your concerns are valid? Well, maybe. But the thing is, you are the one RESPONSIBLE for YOUR child. YOUR CHILD is a felon. He committed a crime. Hence he put you on the hook. No one HERE is responsible for the situation you and your ex husband find yourselves in. If you want to see who is responsible look in the mirror and then look at your darling child. You don't have to pay his fines or his restitution. You just have to watch him pay the consequences -- such as, going to jail. As for being sued, well when it comes down between you and the victim bearing the loss, equity demands that YOU bear the loss for your child's actions. NOT the victim.

 

[Just Blue]

Have Jr. call his PO and ask for help in finding a job.

 

[Faerie64]

Because there is CONFIDENTIALITY with the probation officer. They are legally restricted -- they can talk to the court and their client. not to client's mommy and daddy. Your son was old enough to commit the crime and hence HE gets to do the time. Now you and your ex can be sued because you are financially responsible for him. He cannot be sued so therefore YOU are. It makes perfect sense.

As for your ex being a natural ass -- you are not too far ahead of him. Have YOU contacted the insurance company to work it out?

His father will not give me the information. I was told NOT to contact the victim and ask for the information myself, so I don't quite know what to do about that.

Just seems silly to me, if not contradictory, that I can be liable for everything my son does, but his PO won't talk to me about anything regarding what their plan is.

And I did inquire to his PO about getting aid helping him find a job. Her response to me was, "have you gotten him a cell phone yet?"

A cell phone? Who is going to pay for that?

And really, do all you pp have to come here and basically call me ugly things because my son made a mistake? I did not hold his hand and lead him to the crime, nor did I any any way, ever in his life, imply or demostrate that breaking the law was ok. I don't break the law. I work hard for what I have. I am as flabbergasted as the next person why he would do such a thing. And to ask him, well he has no answers for me because frankly, I don't think he really knows himself.

Thanks for all reasonable suggestions and advice to my questions. There are not a whole lot of answers out there for people who cannot afford a lawyer to fill in the gaps!