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Advice for 17 yr old arrested for alcohol possession.

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MikeB

Junior Member
Massachusetts.
Hello there. My 17 yr old was traveling in a car with several friends, and they were stopped for speeding. The officer approached and immediately singled my son out asking what he was up to (he was the only non white in a car of suburban youths). He took my son aside and asked if he’d been drinking and what was in his bag. My son denied he had any alcohol in the bag, but refused the officer permission to search it when asked to. The officer took the other kids aside, and the driver gave permission for the car to be searched. The officer found 2 bottles of beer and a 1/2 full bottle of rum in my son’s bag; the cop said that he smelled the liquor before he opened the bag. The rum’s cap was broken, but my son wasn’t aware of it being damaged before this, and no one else smelled alcohol until the bag was opened. The officer was very angry with my son, referred to him as “dickhead” repeatedly. He arrested him, and he was in jail several hours, and was given a court date next week for Minor in Possession of Alcohol C138S34C (the S could be a 5).

So, I’m asking what this court date is, an arraignment (?), and what does this entail?
Should we have a lawyer represent him?
Would we need to negotiate in some way at this appearance, or is that in the future?
Would the arrest or a conviction affect college applications? Job applications? (He has no driving license yet, but has a permit.)
Any other advice?
Was this a legal search; the owner gave permission for the car to be searched, but the officer knew the bag was my son’s. The officer claimed he could smell alcohol, is there any point trying to deny that?
I don’t suppose there’s any basis for a discrimination complaint/defense?: He singled my son out as the bad guy before he said a word. He was the only one cited for not wearing a seat belt, and had his bag searched. He was pulled aside and spoken to rudely. The cop disparaged my son as thinking he was tough because he came from the city (the other kids were white suburban), and said it was the first time he had ever arrested anyone for MIP.
Thanks for any advice.
 


CdwJava

Senior Member
MikeB said:
Was this a legal search; the owner gave permission for the car to be searched, but the officer knew the bag was my son’s. The officer claimed he could smell alcohol, is there any point trying to deny that?
Alcohol has a very distinctive smell, and when we smell it in a car it is just cause to search in all but a couple of states.

In any event, the owner of the car gave permission to search the car and its contents. That consent might not have given cause to search a backpack that was clearly owned by another person, but a paper bag is not likely to hold the same rights.

Not knowing the status of the law in your state, the consent may have been sufficient to justify a search of the vehicle and all its contents.

I don’t suppose there’s any basis for a discrimination complaint/defense?: He singled my son out as the bad guy before he said a word.
If you can prove that the only reason he singled your son out was due to his race, I suppose you could make a complaint. But if the officer contends that your son appeared to be hiding something or that was where he smelled the alcohol, then the issue is moot.

Even if you have a complaint against the officer, that is a seperate matter from a personnel issue.

I would recommend that your son consult an attorney as an MIP conviction coul dresult in a suspension of a driver's license or a delay in obtaining one when he is old enough.

So, what punishment has he received from you for being in a car with alcohol? I certainly hope that this is not activity you support or condone.

And if this had been my son (and I have three), he'd be pleading guilty, looking for a deferred entry of judgement, and would be suffering indentured servitude to the charity or neighbor of my choice for the foreseeable future.

- Carl
 

MikeB

Junior Member
Thank you for the advice Carl.
The alcohol was not in a paper bag but zipped shut in a sling or backpack type bag. The officer claimed he smelled the alcohol however, which I think would be justification. I just suspect the officer himself broke the lid after he found it, but that can't be proven.

I believe the officer did have prejudices; he picked out my son before a word was spoken (another kid in the car had a history of trouble), but nothing can be proven here. I wish the officer had set a better example by being respectful; my son did address him as "Officer".

There's not a real problem with a delay in a driver's license as we live in a city with public transportation. The legal consequences I'd worry about are future job or college applications. I don't know if they would be affected. Does anyone know?

We've been haveing pointed communication with my son and will work out consequences.

Thanks again for the input.
 

yikes9999

Member
It's up to the discretion of the DA & Judge

My best friend's 17 year old son was arrested a few weeks ago (here on Cape Cod)
for the same offense.
His friends all took off and he refused to disclose their names to the officer, so he was arrested. These were all white wealthy kids. At the arraignment the DA asked the boy what school he went to, how his grades were, if he had a job, and if he'd ever been in trouble before. Since this was the first time he'd ever been in trouble, the DA decided not to press charges. The event was presented to the judge (who is known to keep a flask under his robe) who gave the boy a brief speech about the dangers of teens drinking alcohol, especially when driving, and then dismissed the charges. The courts here are more interested in prosecuting the people who sell the alcohol to the teens.

I would try to find an attorney who works regularly in your local district court and who knows the prosecutors well, or even try to find a former prosecutor. Does your son get good grades in school? Does he have a job, play sports, participate in extra-cirricular activities? Bring up all the positive qualities he has as well as the fact that he is (and will continue to be) paying serious consequences at home for this behavior.

You might get lucky and have the matter dismissed at the arraignment. If your son hasn't been in trouble before, it's unlikely that the court is going to want to throw the book at him
for a first offense.

Chances are that the cop involved did single out your son because of his race, but I would not make an issue of that until after the district attorney's office decides how they are going to proceed. (Strictly my personal opinion - I am not an attorney.) Good luck.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I can't say I disagreed with anything until this:

yikes9999 said:
Chances are that the cop involved did single out your son because of his race,
And you can state that with such certainty ... why??

It amazes me that when a white officer stops a non-white person the immediate presumption is that it is because of the person's race. Non-white individuals can exhibit suspicious behavior independent of their race just as a white person can. If the officer made racial epithets, I might agree that race played a prt here. But, there does not appear to be any indicia of improper behavior whatsoever. And without knowing WHY the officer apparently singled the lad out, making the assumption is a tad premature, wouldn't you think?

- Carl
 

The Occultist

Senior Member
yikes9999 said:
Chances are that the cop involved did single out your son because of his race, but I would not make an issue of that until after the district attorney's office decides how they are going to proceed. (Strictly my personal opinion - I am not an attorney.) Good luck.
Besides, as Carl has already stated, even if it could be proven that he was singled out based on race, it is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the case. His race does not magically make him innocent of the charges. You may file a complaint to the police department on the matter, but it will have no impact on the trial whatsoever because, in the court room, race does not decide guilt!
 

MikeB

Junior Member
Thanks Yikes for the local experience, and thanks Carl again.

Yes Yikes, he gets good grades in school, but doesn't have much other activities outside fall soccer season.

Carl, you're probably right the discrimination won't go anywhere, but it is suggestive that he stops a car of kids and immediately singles out the minority kid in the far rear seat, pulls him aside from all the others to question, and searches his bag. When he sees the boy is from the city, he says something to the effect that he's from Boston himself and knows how to handle people like him. It could also be a small town/big city issue, although this is pretty much a suburb.

CdwJava said:
I can't say I disagreed with anything until this:


And you can state that with such certainty ... why??

It amazes me that when a white officer stops a non-white person the immediate presumption is that it is because of the person's race. Non-white individuals can exhibit suspicious behavior independent of their race just as a white person can. If the officer made racial epithets, I might agree that race played a prt here. But, there does not appear to be any indicia of improper behavior whatsoever. And without knowing WHY the officer apparently singled the lad out, making the assumption is a tad premature, wouldn't you think?

- Carl
 

MikeB

Junior Member
The Occultist said:
Besides, as Carl has already stated, even if it could be proven that he was singled out based on race, it is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the case. His race does not magically make him innocent of the charges. You may file a complaint to the police department on the matter, but it will have no impact on the trial whatsoever because, in the court room, race does not decide guilt!
On the one individual hand you're right, on the other hand if they pull over or search the minorities specifically they're going to end up punishing them more.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
MikeB said:
Carl, you're probably right the discrimination won't go anywhere, but it is suggestive that he stops a car of kids and immediately singles out the minority kid in the far rear seat, pulls him aside from all the others to question, and searches his bag. When he sees the boy is from the city, he says something to the effect that he's from Boston himself and knows how to handle people like him. It could also be a small town/big city issue, although this is pretty much a suburb.
It could also be that he was the only one in the car fiddling with a bag or acting like he was hiding something. Your assumption is that all things were equal ... this may not be the case. And when someone is from a big city and suddenly in a smaller community, they tend to make comments or come across with a 'tude of some kind. That may (or may not) have happened here.

Obviously none of us have any way of knowing what was in the officer's mind. The officer may have focused on him because he was not white, or the officer may have focused on him for some issue completely unrelated to his color. It is easy to hurl the accusation, and almost impossible to defend against it. This is one reason why it can be a sore spot for those in law enforcement.

- Carl
 

MikeB

Junior Member
Yes, you make valid points. Of course it does amount to a kind of discrimination if the police are tougher on those from another culture because they misunderstand it, but that kind of discrimnation is unavoidable people being human. In this case there's not much cultural difference among the kids in the car. I think one thing that pissed off the cop was that when he first asked to search the bag, he was refused and told he'd need a search warrant. I guess he showed that wasn't true. He also mentioned to a girl present that this was the first time he'd ever arrested someone for MIP, and it was because her friend was such a "dickhead".


CdwJava said:
It could also be that he was the only one in the car fiddling with a bag or acting like he was hiding something. Your assumption is that all things were equal ... this may not be the case. And when someone is from a big city and suddenly in a smaller community, they tend to make comments or come across with a 'tude of some kind. That may (or may not) have happened here.

Obviously none of us have any way of knowing what was in the officer's mind. The officer may have focused on him because he was not white, or the officer may have focused on him for some issue completely unrelated to his color. It is easy to hurl the accusation, and almost impossible to defend against it. This is one reason why it can be a sore spot for those in law enforcement.

- Carl
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Attitude is often the single biggest determinant of enforcement activity. Someone with a chip on their shoulder, or with an inordinate mount of lip is likely to receive special attention. It's sort of like speeding in a red convertible - If you're doing something wrong, don't do it in a way that attracts the attention of the cops.

Again, I'm not saying your son did anything to deserve the attention, but we just don't know. And teenage boys being what they are, I assume almost anything is possible. I know MY oldest son has an attitude and he is not even 13 yet!

Sort of like the guy who was carrying about 50 lbs. of weed in in his trunk when he pulled up next to a cop and stuck both hands out of his driver's side window to flip off and curse the cop ... oops - no hands on the steering wheel while the vehicle was in motion! And no license! ... Here's yer sign ... :D

- Carl
 

yikes9999

Member
Do you live in Massachusetts, Carl?

I have lived in Massachusetts for almost thirty years, and based on my experience
with various police departments and the society in general, the poster's concern
about discrimination in this case is valid. I don't think it will help the boy's case to
accuse the officer of racial discrimination, but the reality is that it happens here all
the time.

BTW, do you think it's "proper" for a police officer to call a 17 year old boy a "dickhead"?


CdwJava said:
I can't say I disagreed with anything until this:


And you can state that with such certainty ... why??

It amazes me that when a white officer stops a non-white person the immediate presumption is that it is because of the person's race. Non-white individuals can exhibit suspicious behavior independent of their race just as a white person can. If the officer made racial epithets, I might agree that race played a prt here. But, there does not appear to be any indicia of improper behavior whatsoever. And without knowing WHY the officer apparently singled the lad out, making the assumption is a tad premature, wouldn't you think?

- Carl
 

yikes9999

Member
You're right!

It decides innocence. Just ask OJ Simpson!!!


The Occultist said:
Besides, as Carl has already stated, even if it could be proven that he was singled out based on race, it is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the case. His race does not magically make him innocent of the charges. You may file a complaint to the police department on the matter, but it will have no impact on the trial whatsoever because, in the court room, race does not decide guilt!
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
yikes9999 said:
but the reality is that it happens here all the time.
That may be the perception by you and others, but that does not make it reality. And "all the time" is subjective. It might be the case that many officers do hold these attitudes. On the other hand, it may very well NOT be the case.

BTW, do you think it's "proper" for a police officer to call a 17 year old boy a "dickhead"?
No. But I have to say that even *I* have used rather unflattering terminology on occasions to refer to people acting like twits - teens or not. I don't use that particular type of language, but I am guilty of similar sentiments on occasion.

- Carl
 
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