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court ordered counseling

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dobbiemom

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Virginia

Last year my then 16 year old daughter hit me. It was not the first time. It was the first time I did anything about it. I wish I had not. I feel like my husband and I have been on trial not her!! We have never been in any trouble and we have 2 other teen children who have not had a moments trouble. The judge ordered US to family counseling. We took our daughter and got her phychiatric help. She is still in it. I do go with her, however my husband does not. He works many hours and this is a hardship on our family. We know we are in contempt of an order, however our names were not on the order. It says family counseling but does not name us by name. My question is.... Is it constitutional to court order someone to go to counseling who has never been charged with a crime? The crime was on ME! And I am being punished. My daughter has a huge problem with authority and always has. We have paid 3 counseling bills for no-shows because at the last minute our daughter refused to go that day. What can we do? We can not push her in the car. That would be considered assault. I would love some advice about this. We are prepared to take this as far as we need to. thank you.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
 
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BL

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Virginia

Last year my then 16 year old daughter hit me. It was not the first time. It was the first time I did anything about it. I wish I had not. I feel like my husband and I have been on trial not her!! We have never been in any trouble and we have 2 other teen children who have not had a moments trouble. The judge ordered US to family counseling. We took our daughter and got her phychiatric help. She is still in it. I do o with her, however my husband does not. He works many hours and this is a hardship on our family. We know we are in contempt of an order, however our names were not on the order. It says family counseling but does not name us by name. My question is.... Is it constitutional to court order someone to go to counseling who has never been charged with a crime? The crime was on ME! And I am being punished. My daughter has a huge problem with authority and always has. We have paid 3 counseling bills for no-shows because at the last minute our daughter refused to go that day. What can we do? We can not push her in the car. That would be considered assault. I would love some advice about this. We are prepared to take this as far as we need to. thank you.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Legally , the order is for family counseling .

The court is attempting through counseling to bring the family to some kind of order .

It's not to punish you or your husband , but a venue to talk about your frustrations , and an an attempt to council on ways everyone understands and can come together on what's reasonable .

Obviously it doesn't always work out that way .

I don't think the court would slap Dad for working to support the Family , and you have attempted counseling w/ your daughter .

If your daughter still refuses to go , and disobeys your home rules , and continues to hit you , or household members , She could possibly find herself in a juvenile facility .

What has the councilor said to you about your daughter canceling the appointment ?
 

dobbiemom

Junior Member
contempt

The phychiologist can not believe she is refusing to go. The one time I actually got her in to the waiting room. She began to feel stupid or ashamed about being suspended from scool for bulling.She did not want me to discuss it with the counsler. So she did not go in and told the phychologist "screw you" words she has NEVER come out of my mouth. I just cant believe it. She is terrorizing our house. We lock everything up. We lock our doors at night because of he threats to kill us in our sleep. I have learned to keep the legal system out of it because they do not care about parents. nor do they the children because my daughter will be 17 tomorrow so she has less than a year to grow up! But the legal system keeps telling her she is ok and it must be her horrible parents. this is crazy, We already went through the whole social services thing and that case was opened and after many letters is not unfounded and closed! I have never been in any trouble in my life and now I could have a contempt charge for something like this. The courts do not work!
 

Indiana Filer

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Virginia

the judge ordered US to family counseling.
Look on the Court order and see if it says anything similar to "the parent(s) and guardian(s) are ordered to participate in any treatment or rehabilitative programs considered necessary and appropriate."

The issues involve family dynamics so they want everyone in counseling together to figure out how to resolve the issues.

You say
It was not the first time. It was the first time I did anything about it. I wish I had not.
Right there shows that there are many issues that need to be addressed, such as why you never did anything sooner, and why you don't want to help her with her anger issues.

I'm a juvenile probation officer. The issues that the child has do not exist in a vacuum. The family dynamics need to be addressed.
 

Indiana Filer

Senior Member
The phychiologist can not believe she is refusing to go. The one time I actually got her in to the waiting room. She began to feel stupid or ashamed about being suspended from scool for bulling.She did not want me to discuss it with the counsler. So she did not go in and told the phychologist "screw you" words she has NEVER come out of my mouth. I just cant believe it. She is terrorizing our house. We lock everything up. We lock our doors at night because of he threats to kill us in our sleep. I have learned to keep the legal system out of it because they do not care about parents. nor do they the children because my daughter will be 17 tomorrow so she has less than a year to grow up! But the legal system keeps telling her she is ok and it must be her horrible parents. this is crazy, We already went through the whole social services thing and that case was opened and after many letters is not unfounded and closed! I have never been in any trouble in my life and now I could have a contempt charge for something like this. The courts do not work!
If she hasn't straightened up by the time she is 18, the Juvenile Court could keep her under their jurisdiction until she's 21. If you just let this continue, things will not improve, they will get worse because she will learn (even more than she has thus far in her life) that you and her father will let her do whatever she damn well pleases. You need to grow a backbone and parent this child.
 

BL

Senior Member
If she hasn't straightened up by the time she is 18, the Juvenile Court could keep her under their jurisdiction until she's 21. If you just let this continue, things will not improve, they will get worse because she will learn (even more than she has thus far in her life) that you and her father will let her do whatever she damn well pleases. You need to grow a backbone and parent this child.
With all due respect for the parents , this is a child with mental health issues .

The first thing society wants to do is help council the family .

In reality you have a child with mental health issue to the point of threatening her parents with fatal bodily harm ( there is also most likely homicidal and/or suicidal ideation's ) with the child .

I have lived it with my GF and her son .

Unless the child is Immediate danger to herself or others , the issue is looked at as a Family issue .

All CPS reports have been unfounded , the parents are scared to go to sleep , been told to lock everything up .

Shouldn't have to live like that .

Then if the child has an episode the parents are told to take the child for an evaluation , only to have the child sent back home .

If by chance the hosp. keeps the child ( it's usually looked at as a parental issue ) , and if the parents don't follow " The Plan " it's hell to pay , and another CPS report , warranted or not , because of concerns .

The 17 year old in our home went out the door , and when police came and said you can't do that , I said watch me .

Now we have communication with the now 21 year old , and he's respectful .

Yes, there's something goes on in the home , there's a child that wants what they want , and don't want to be told what to do .

This isn't yester year , out behind the shed or barn , and kids know it .
 

Indiana Filer

Senior Member
I had a client on juvenile probation with similar issues. She has been in placement for over a year, and will be discharged in about a month. The parents are required to work with me and the placement facility so that she can get better. It's worked, and, like I said, she's going home in a month. If the parents hadn't participated in the counseling, there is no way this child would be ready for discharge. The family dynamics had to be addressed, not just the mental health issues.

I am so proud of this girl and her family for what they've done over the last year. She's made a 180 turn from where she was, and has become the person hidden/locked inside by the mental health issues. I didn't make those changes, nor did the judge and Court. Neither did the counselors, although they helped lead the family to this point. The work was done by this girl and her family. Like I said, I am so proud of her and her family.
 

BL

Senior Member
I agree not all cases are the same and have the same outcomes , but for this poster and the threats of fatal bodily harm , it's is very difficult to live in fear like this .

You can't imagine until you've lived it .

In this case , no one is wanting to place the child , even temporarily .
 

dobbiemom

Junior Member
If she hasn't straightened up by the time she is 18, the Juvenile Court could keep her under their jurisdiction until she's 21. If you just let this continue, things will not improve, they will get worse because she will learn (even more than she has thus far in her life) that you and her father will let her do whatever she damn well pleases. You need to grow a backbone and parent this child.
ok how are we letting this continue? What would you suggest we do? We have strong backbones but we have been nutered by the system who feels they can raise our child better than we can. Our other 2 children have the SAME family dinamic and they are great!! We are active parents. I was a room mother for years volunteered at school,chaperoned trips, taught youth and bible school. We have been great parents. We have never had any alcohol in our house. We have never done drugs. We are upper middle class so our children are fed and clothed well. I am always home with my kids!! It is just this one who wants to get what she wants and she will not follow any rules and when she has to she freaks!! Thats it!! I will not be called a spineless parent for that!! This is not true.She does not live in a broken home nothing like this. I am tired of putting us the parents on trile. If you have the time look up court ordered counseling on the web. It does not work.WHY??? because these people are not ready or do not want to change! My daughter does not want to change. We will not pay not one more full bill for a missed appt. because she is using this to manipulate us. She also will not take the medicine the phychiatrist gave her. I cant shove it down her throat. If it were legal I would!! It is not trust me!
 

majomom1

Senior Member
The phychiologist can not believe she is refusing to go. The one time I actually got her in to the waiting room. She began to feel stupid or ashamed about being suspended from scool for bulling.She did not want me to discuss it with the counsler. So she did not go in and told the phychologist "screw you" words she has NEVER come out of my mouth. I just cant believe it. She is terrorizing our house. We lock everything up. We lock our doors at night because of he threats to kill us in our sleep. I have learned to keep the legal system out of it because they do not care about parents. nor do they the children because my daughter will be 17 tomorrow so she has less than a year to grow up! But the legal system keeps telling her she is ok and it must be her horrible parents. this is crazy, We already went through the whole social services thing and that case was opened and after many letters is not unfounded and closed! I have never been in any trouble in my life and now I could have a contempt charge for something like this. The courts do not work!
Sounds like it is time for boot camp. You don't have to force medication down her throat - You outlast her in any standoff until she takes the medication AND attends the counseling. Until she does that, she should have NO other priviledges. It won't be easy, but it has to be done or she will never learn how to survive in society. You cannot allow her to bully you and others at school.

I believe that everyone in the court system DOES care. They spend their lives trying to help all these kids. They cannot do it alone or without help from the parents.

You seem to be more worried about a "black mark" on YOUR record than you are about your daughter. You have 2 other children? Great! THIS one needs your help.

Like another poster said -- this didn't all happen in a vacuum. You and Dad are the best ones to help the counselors help your daughter. Dad really needs to go to the counseling. Any excuse he has for not going tells her that it is not important. Your complaining about the court "making" you go -- also tells her that it is not important.

I know it's not intentional, but do you see any pattern here in the message you are giving your daughter?
 

Tallrat

Member
Has she been diagnosed with bi-polar? I have one child with that and it was not fun. When she got into early 20's she seemed to settle down quit a bit but her teen years were horrible and we went thru much the same as you. Finding a good adolescent psychiatrist made a world of difference. Went to several but found one that worked very well with teen female and she felt like she had someone on her side. He explained to my wife and I what we were doing wrong and in actuality it wasn't that we were "wrong" but how things are processed by a bi - polar child. She went to a facility for 12 days then 2x counseling a week for about a year. Now in her mid 20's she's off meds and doing very well. Diet and exercise has helped her tremendously. Good luck!
 

Indiana Filer

Senior Member
You need to look into a Psychiatric Residential Treatment Facility (PTRF), and take her there for an assessment. It's possible that they will admit her for treatment, which would get her therapy and will also teach you and your husband how to parent her. Hopefully your insurance pays for this sort of facility.

Not just "bad" parents need to go to counseling. It's also for those who have children with issues who need to learn new ways of dealing with those issues. If you have two other kids who are doing great, that's wonderful, but you can't use those same techniques with her.

Look, obviously what you're doing isn't working, so maybe the system can raise your daughter better than you can at this point UNTIL you (and she) get the tools needed to help her.

I hate recommending placement for any of my clients, but I do it because there are some families where that is what is needed.
 

smutlydog

Member
ok how are we letting this continue? What would you suggest we do? We have strong backbones but we have been nutered by the system who feels they can raise our child better than we can. Our other 2 children have the SAME family dinamic and they are great!! We are active parents. I was a room mother for years volunteered at school,chaperoned trips, taught youth and bible school. We have been great parents. We have never had any alcohol in our house. We have never done drugs. We are upper middle class so our children are fed and clothed well. I am always home with my kids!! It is just this one who wants to get what she wants and she will not follow any rules and when she has to she freaks!! Thats it!! I will not be called a spineless parent for that!! This is not true.She does not live in a broken home nothing like this. I am tired of putting us the parents on trile. If you have the time look up court ordered counseling on the web. It does not work.WHY??? because these people are not ready or do not want to change! My daughter does not want to change. We will not pay not one more full bill for a missed appt. because she is using this to manipulate us. She also will not take the medicine the phychiatrist gave her. I cant shove it down her throat. If it were legal I would!! It is not trust me!
If your daughter and husband won't go to counseling with you then you should go alone. With a child like this everyone must do their part. Plus this situation is probably draining you emotionally.

Our other 2 children have the SAME family dinamic and they are great!!
You should never make that kind of comparison. We are not all genetic clones and we don't experience the world in the same manner even if we live in the same household. Some of us respond to the environment in the same manner but some of us don't. Some of us were special needs children and the adults around us were confused about what was going on. Usually a well intentioned parent will respond in a negative way to a child like this. What works well for one child may make matters worse for another. Without going into what kind of life it led to I was a special needs child. For me it was an early bonding issue with my mother mixed with how the adults responded to the way I acted. In other words it was a developmental issue. It can be number of things with your child which include developmental issues, genetics, and early childhood experiences just to name a few.

I hold a Master’s in counseling and will start working on my PHD this fall. I started with a GED and the criminal record the length of a football field I wasn’t violent but I was everything else in the book. There is hope as long as you haven’t given up on it.
 

dobbiemom

Junior Member
I will make these types of comparisons between my children!I have one child who hits and bullies and curses everyone (by the way she has NEVER heard any of us cuss in her life)
My other 2 children do not try to hit others thereaten death and intimidate all of us over something as small as phone use! She is headed for the real world (she is 17) where the court and her parents will not cotle her. It is unconstitutional to force a citizen to do something against their will when there was no court order with our name on it and we did not commit a crime. I did not abuse HER! SHE ABUSED ME!!!!! she hit me!!!!!!!!!!!and now I am on trial! I think not. none of this is constitutional. none of it
 

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