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I think my 14th Amendment Rights were violated.

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muhammadabdulla

Junior Member
I am a minor, living in Florida.

I think my rights were violated, but I'm not exactly sure. On Thursday, 2/4/16, I was informed that I was suspended from my school for two days (Friday 2/5/16 and Monday 2/8/16). In reality it was really a four day suspension however, as I wasn't allowed to participate in school athletic events on Saturday 2/6/16 and Sunday 2/7/16.

The reason for the suspension was that I drew an inappropriate drawing in somebody else's notebook at school. The reality was that, the classmate who's notebook I drew in, had drawn the exact same drawings in one of my notebooks a weak prior. Not wanting to "snitch" or "narc" I simply disposed of the notebook. However, when I responded a week later by drawing the exact same drawing in one of his notebooks, he immediately turned it into the front office.

The drawings were extremely vulgar and school-inappropriate, and it felt like the two day suspension was a gut reaction. In fact, when I first went into the front office, I noticed that the disciplinary referral form was already filled out, complete with signature and everything. Letting me hear the "charges" was more of a formality, as the verdict had already been passed.

However, even then, I was not fully informed of the charges against me. I asked what the specific crime I had committed was, and the administrator said that it fell under misconduct, a broad category which encompasses basically any action the administration personally disagrees with. When I asked for further clarification, as in the details of the actual offense I committed, rather than explaining the situation to me, she threatened me with a police investigation.

After hearing "my side of the story," which included the fact that the other student had made the same drawings first, rather than even considering the situation, she simply handed me the Referral Form, and told me I'd be suspended for two days. When I asked, she told me that it would have made a difference in the severity of the ruling, if I was able to present my notebook, and show her the drawings that the other classmate had made. However, she added that "at this point" it wouldn't make a difference, and did not give me the chance to present evidence or call on witnesses to defend myself.

She attempted to call my father, who was at work. He didn't answer the phone immediately. Rather than try calling again, or try contacting my mother, who was available at the time, she simply told me that she'd meet with my parents on Monday morning to discuss the disciplinary issue. Note that Monday will be after three days of the suspension have already been served.

I believe my 14th Amendment Rights were breached. The 1975 Supreme Court Case, Goss v. Lopez, clearly states that "students' suspension from a public school without a hearing violated the due process right protected by the Fourteenth Amendment."

I don't believe I was given a proper hearing for the following reasons:

1. I was not made aware of the charges against me. She refused to answer any further questions about the violations I committed until the conference on Monday with my parents, which will be after the majority of the suspension is served. Also, she handed me the form, and told me to sign at the bottom. At the time, she made it clear that signing my name only signified that I agreed that what I wrote down on the paper was my official side of the story. When I look at the form now, I see that the signature really signifies that "I was made aware of the charges against me." The 'X' in the 'Yes' box was not filled in by me, it was written in by her after I had already signed my name. I was at the time, and still am, not exactly sure what the charges are. And yet, I am at home serving the first day of my suspension.

2. I was not given an opportunity to defend myself. I had witnesses that would, and still will, confirm that I was the victim of the same drawings first, and I only drew them in response. A fact that I was told, if proven, would make a difference in the severity of the punishment. Rather than giving me a chance to call witnesses or present evidence, I was quickly escorted out of the office, and the administrator in charge of my referral kicked me out of the front office.

3. My parents were not made aware of the situation. I asked multiple times, and she refused to meet with my parents any time before Monday morning. However, by Monday I will have already served part of the suspension. My parents were not made fully aware of the situation, before the punishment was served. Also on the form, she claimed that a parent phone conference had taken place, when in reality she did not communicate with my parents, she only left a voice message asking for them to call her back. She marked that the phone conference had taken place, well before she even talked to my parents.

I think that under these circumstances, I was not given a fair hearing, and my 14th amendment rights were violated under Goss v. Lopez.

I was hoping somebody could help clarify the situation for me. Thank you.
 


tranquility

Senior Member
Tit-for-tat is not a protected right.

After hearing "my side of the story,"
That is what is known as Constitutional "due process". You might want to research your school district's/state's statutes and regulations regarding due process hearings. There are sometimes specific requirements laid out there.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
I am a minor, living in Florida.

I think my rights were violated, but I'm not exactly sure. On Thursday, 2/4/16, I was informed that I was suspended from my school for two days (Friday 2/5/16 and Monday 2/8/16). In reality it was really a four day suspension however, as I wasn't allowed to participate in school athletic events on Saturday 2/6/16 and Sunday 2/7/16.

The reason for the suspension was that I drew an inappropriate drawing in somebody else's notebook at school. The reality was that, the classmate who's notebook I drew in, had drawn the exact same drawings in one of my notebooks a weak prior. Not wanting to "snitch" or "narc" I simply disposed of the notebook. However, when I responded a week later by drawing the exact same drawing in one of his notebooks, he immediately turned it into the front office.

The drawings were extremely vulgar and school-inappropriate, and it felt like the two day suspension was a gut reaction. In fact, when I first went into the front office, I noticed that the disciplinary referral form was already filled out, complete with signature and everything. Letting me hear the "charges" was more of a formality, as the verdict had already been passed.

However, even then, I was not fully informed of the charges against me. I asked what the specific crime I had committed was, and the administrator said that it fell under misconduct, a broad category which encompasses basically any action the administration personally disagrees with. When I asked for further clarification, as in the details of the actual offense I committed, rather than explaining the situation to me, she threatened me with a police investigation.

After hearing "my side of the story," which included the fact that the other student had made the same drawings first, rather than even considering the situation, she simply handed me the Referral Form, and told me I'd be suspended for two days. When I asked, she told me that it would have made a difference in the severity of the ruling, if I was able to present my notebook, and show her the drawings that the other classmate had made. However, she added that "at this point" it wouldn't make a difference, and did not give me the chance to present evidence or call on witnesses to defend myself.

She attempted to call my father, who was at work. He didn't answer the phone immediately. Rather than try calling again, or try contacting my mother, who was available at the time, she simply told me that she'd meet with my parents on Monday morning to discuss the disciplinary issue. Note that Monday will be after three days of the suspension have already been served.

I believe my 14th Amendment Rights were breached. The 1975 Supreme Court Case, Goss v. Lopez, clearly states that "students' suspension from a public school without a hearing violated the due process right protected by the Fourteenth Amendment."

I don't believe I was given a proper hearing for the following reasons:

1. I was not made aware of the charges against me. She refused to answer any further questions about the violations I committed until the conference on Monday with my parents, which will be after the majority of the suspension is served. Also, she handed me the form, and told me to sign at the bottom. At the time, she made it clear that signing my name only signified that I agreed that what I wrote down on the paper was my official side of the story. When I look at the form now, I see that the signature really signifies that "I was made aware of the charges against me." The 'X' in the 'Yes' box was not filled in by me, it was written in by her after I had already signed my name. I was at the time, and still am, not exactly sure what the charges are. And yet, I am at home serving the first day of my suspension.

2. I was not given an opportunity to defend myself. I had witnesses that would, and still will, confirm that I was the victim of the same drawings first, and I only drew them in response. A fact that I was told, if proven, would make a difference in the severity of the punishment. Rather than giving me a chance to call witnesses or present evidence, I was quickly escorted out of the office, and the administrator in charge of my referral kicked me out of the front office.

3. My parents were not made aware of the situation. I asked multiple times, and she refused to meet with my parents any time before Monday morning. However, by Monday I will have already served part of the suspension. My parents were not made fully aware of the situation, before the punishment was served. Also on the form, she claimed that a parent phone conference had taken place, when in reality she did not communicate with my parents, she only left a voice message asking for them to call her back. She marked that the phone conference had taken place, well before she even talked to my parents.

I think that under these circumstances, I was not given a fair hearing, and my 14th amendment rights were violated under Goss v. Lopez.

I was hoping somebody could help clarify the situation for me. Thank you.
You sure wrote a lot of unnecessary words.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
So, if a guy shot you a week ago, are you allowed to shoot him a week later?

An extreme example? Yes. It does, however, show why your contention that your response to your friend's drawing in your notebook a week prior was unacceptable. So, think this through. Let's say you demand a hearing...ok, your prior suspension is reversed and you are given a hearing...it's possible that your new suspension will be even longer.
 

eerelations

Senior Member
A four-day suspension for putting an "extremely vulgar and inappropriate" (your words) drawing in another student's notebook? I think you got off pretty easy...

And as far as your he-did-it-first defense goes, if you can't produce what he did as evidence, then it didn't happen.
 

HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
You were not charged with a crime, you broke some school rules. You don't have to be read your rights, arraigned by a judge to have the charges formally presented to you, etc.

You are a kid and are being punished for misbehaving. Your "constitutional rights" don't really apply here. Hopefully you learn a lesson from it.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
You were not charged with a crime, you broke some school rules. You don't have to be read your rights, arraigned by a judge to have the charges formally presented to you, etc.

You are a kid and are being punished for misbehaving. Your "constitutional rights" don't really apply here. Hopefully you learn a lesson from it.
Please take a look at the case he referred to...
 

quincy

Senior Member
...

You are a kid and are being punished for misbehaving. Your "constitutional rights" don't really apply here. ...
This is incorrect. Students have constitutional rights and due process rights apply to students facing suspension or expulsion from school.

Here are some links, this to Florida's Educational Code, Section 1002.20 (see 4): http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=1000-1099/1002/Sections/1002.20.html

And this to Goss v. Lopez, 419 US 565, January 22, 1975: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/goss.html

And this to the American Civil Liberties Union: https://acluvt.org/pubs/students_rights/due_process.php
 
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muhammadabdulla

Junior Member
A four-day suspension for putting an "extremely vulgar and inappropriate" (your words) drawing in another student's notebook? I think you got off pretty easy...

And as far as your he-did-it-first defense goes, if you can't produce what he did as evidence, then it didn't happen.
That's the thing though, I can produce witnesses who can confirm it. I was not given the chance to defend myself though.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
That's the thing though, I can produce witnesses who can confirm it. I was not given the chance to defend myself though.
You don't get it. What HE did the week before doesn't give you an excuse to do the same thing a week later.

Let's say he stole your phone and broke it last week...does that give you the right to steal his phone and break it today? No, it does not!
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
C'mon kid, you don't really think, "He did it to me first" is a valid defense, do you?

And you don't have anything else.
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
So when they handed you the suspension form, did you ask for a hearing? Did you call your parent and have them request one? Weekends do not count. Participation in sports is a privilege.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
That's the thing though, I can produce witnesses who can confirm it. I was not given the chance to defend myself though.
Quincy gave you the increased protections under state law, you need to look to your school district policy. On a quick read (Along with notification of parent requirements that may have been met.), state due process (which is more than federal) is:

"Such rules shall require oral and written notice to the student of the charges and an explanation of the evidence against him or her prior to the suspension. Each student shall be given an opportunity to present his or her side of the story."

The reason for the suspension was that I drew an inappropriate drawing in somebody else's notebook at school.
I noticed that the disciplinary referral form was already filled out, complete with signature and everything. Letting me hear the "charges" was more of a formality, as the verdict had already been passed.
It seems like you were notified of the charges both orally and in writing. That you don't think it was defined enough is silly. You know exactly what you did--you described it.

After hearing "my side of the story," which included the fact that the other student had made the same drawings first, rather than even considering the situation, she simply handed me the Referral Form, and told me I'd be suspended for two days.
Opportunity to present your side of the story. It almost seems like the principal knew the law on the matter.
 

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