MIP- Michigan

[kaizen]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

Son is 16. Previous trouble with law. Incorrigibility charge 2 (3?) years ago that resulted in diversion. He completed that successfully. Domestic Violence charge in August of 2013. The prosecutor asked referee to drop it, which he did. When he did, he told son something along the lines of if he's disrespectful or has more issues at home, I (mom) can come back into the court and ask that they reopen the case. *That's a bit fuzzy in my memory. Son remembers it basically the same way. (DV was incident against me.)

Weekend in November I'm home paying homage to my dead daughter as it was the date she passed when the cops beat on my door. Son (during dad's parenting time) had been at a party drinking. People at the party say son brought the booze. Son's gf winds up in hospital in serious condition. Luckily, she didn't die.

He's got a MIP charge, as well as now ex-gf. I am stepping all the way back and saying what'll be, will be. I do not intend to hire any lawyer or look for any way to get him off this. Dad, on the other hand, is talking and plotting ways to get son out of this (no surprise for those that know the history). I believe he's hiring an attorney and am aware he and son are putting heads together to figure out how to get him off on this charge. I vehemently disagree with this strategy. Son told me he's not worried because they have "no way of proving it." I'm relatively certain he told cops on the phone the night they came to my door that he'd been drinking. He certainly did tell me that he had.

My questions are:

How can dad hire atty. without discussing it with me first, given that we have joint legal custody? I sent him an email yesterday telling my intent. He said he's "open to discussion" and that I should call him if I want. I haven't. I let him know my intent. I responded by reiterating my intent and told him that if he has a difference in opinion, we need to mutually attempt to come an agreement and that if I don't hear back from him, I'll assume feels the same. Yet I believe he's planning to actually pull son from school to meet with lawyer. So, question is how to deal with dad not honoring the joint legal part of our custody agreement? Can I object to the choice of lawyer? *Dad's relatives would be paying for it, so I couldn't object from the financial perspective. I object with anything more than a court appointed atty. as I don't think it's necessary and sends the completely wrong message to son. What can I do?

Secondly, how will his DV charge and incorrigibility charge play a role in this? Will this make him not a first time offender in the eyes of the law for MIP punishment, or is first time offender relative only to MIP charges? For the record, believing there's a ton of planning and plotting going on with dad behind my back, I did tell son that if there is anything shady going on that I am unaware of and I understood the admonishment from referee regarding issues/disrespect at home, I will not hesitate to go back in and ask for that case to be reopened. And I meant it.

For the record, I told son I'm not all about getting him off on this. I am about making sure his rights are protected (even though he then chose to ignore what I said by talking to the liason officer at his school about the incident). I told son if he wanted to try to help himself in this, he'd go get a job, join up for every club in school he could, volunteer somewhere and take an alcohol education course on his own - before the judge orders it and be a model citizen at home so if the judge were to ask me I could say he's been very respectful, etc. He's chosen only to do the first thing and to plot with dad how to get off on the rest.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ohiogal]

If you want your son to learn, you can tell the prosecutor what you were told by your son. There is NO parent/child confidentiality. It doesn't exist. Of course, this may anger your son but based on the history, your son is going to hit rock bottom at some point.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

Son is 16. Previous trouble with law. Incorrigibility charge 2 (3?) years ago that resulted in diversion. He completed that successfully. Domestic Violence charge in August of 2013. The prosecutor asked referee to drop it, which he did. When he did, he told son something along the lines of if he's disrespectful or has more issues at home, I (mom) can come back into the court and ask that they reopen the case. *That's a bit fuzzy in my memory. Son remembers it basically the same way. (DV was incident against me.)

Weekend in November I'm home paying homage to my dead daughter as it was the date she passed when the cops beat on my door. Son (during dad's parenting time) had been at a party drinking. People at the party say son brought the booze. Son's gf winds up in hospital in serious condition. Luckily, she didn't die.

He's got a MIP charge, as well as now ex-gf. I am stepping all the way back and saying what'll be, will be. I do not intend to hire any lawyer or look for any way to get him off this. Dad, on the other hand, is talking and plotting ways to get son out of this (no surprise for those that know the history). I believe he's hiring an attorney and am aware he and son are putting heads together to figure out how to get him off on this charge. I vehemently disagree with this strategy. Son told me he's not worried because they have "no way of proving it." I'm relatively certain he told cops on the phone the night they came to my door that he'd been drinking. He certainly did tell me that he had.

My questions are:

How can dad hire atty. without discussing it with me first, given that we have joint legal custody? I sent him an email yesterday telling my intent. He said he's "open to discussion" and that I should call him if I want. I haven't. I let him know my intent. I responded by reiterating my intent and told him that if he has a difference in opinion, we need to mutually attempt to come an agreement and that if I don't hear back from him, I'll assume feels the same. Yet I believe he's planning to actually pull son from school to meet with lawyer. So, question is how to deal with dad not honoring the joint legal part of our custody agreement? Can I object to the choice of lawyer? *Dad's relatives would be paying for it, so I couldn't object from the financial perspective. I object with anything more than a court appointed atty. as I don't think it's necessary and sends the completely wrong message to son. What can I do?

Secondly, how will his DV charge and incorrigibility charge play a role in this? Will this make him not a first time offender in the eyes of the law for MIP punishment, or is first time offender relative only to MIP charges? For the record, believing there's a ton of planning and plotting going on with dad behind my back, I did tell son that if there is anything shady going on that I am unaware of and I understood the admonishment from referee regarding issues/disrespect at home, I will not hesitate to go back in and ask for that case to be reopened. And I meant it.

For the record, I told son I'm not all about getting him off on this. I am about making sure his rights are protected (even though he then chose to ignore what I said by talking to the liason officer at his school about the incident). I told son if he wanted to try to help himself in this, he'd go get a job, join up for every club in school he could, volunteer somewhere and take an alcohol education course on his own - before the judge orders it and be a model citizen at home so if the judge were to ask me I could say he's been very respectful, etc. He's chosen only to do the first thing and to plot with dad how to get off on the rest.

Thanks in advance.

kaizen, I will let others address most of this, but I agree with dad that your son needs an attorney.

I agree with your stance that your son needs to pay or help pay for the costs involved in hiring this attorney. I don't think that either you or your ex-husband should make handling this latest incident easy for your son - not with his history.

Because your son has already taken advantage of the diversion program in Michigan, he will not be eligible for it again. Depending on the county in which he was charged, he can be facing some jail time if he is convicted on the MIP charge.

You might also want to prepare yourself for the possibility of a civil action being filed against your son by his ex-girlfriend's family.

 

[kaizen]

I am reading your replies.

I'm listening and I'm appreciative.

In the meantime, dad did answer my email regarding the attorney. He said:

I know that he is not always innocent but in this case I think he is a victim of circumstances. He actually tried to do the right thing and leave a potentially bad situation. Since he does seem to be maturing and is acting appropriately when he is with you, I hope you will support me in protecting him from unfair legal charges.... Therefore I propose that an attorney should be retained and we should follow that attorneys recommendations.

This is what I'm dealing with and I just don't know how to do it. I'm not about following that attorney's recommendations if the recommendations are simply intended to get him off this charge.

Victim of circumstances?? I wish I could write and share where the booze came from. That's all I'll say about that.

 

[quincy]

I am reading your replies.

I'm listening and I'm appreciative.

In the meantime, dad did answer my email regarding the attorney. He said:

I know that he is not always innocent but in this case I think he is a victim of circumstances. He actually tried to do the right thing and leave a potentially bad situation. Since he does seem to be maturing and is acting appropriately when he is with you, I hope you will support me in protecting him from unfair legal charges.... Therefore I propose that an attorney should be retained and we should follow that attorneys recommendations.

This is what I'm dealing with and I just don't know how to do it. I'm not about following that attorney's recommendations if the recommendations are simply intended to get him off this charge.

Victim of circumstances?? I wish I could write and share where the booze came from. That's all I'll say about that.

An attorney must deal with the facts and the evidence. It is not easy to work a "victim of circumstances" defense if there are witnesses willing to testify that your son brought alcohol to the party.

The attorney can only ensure that your son's rights are protected. If it can be shown your son is deserving of lenience, or a dismissal of charges is warranted based on the facts or lack of evidence supporting the charge, the attorney can try to work with the prosecutor and judge to see there is lenience or a dismissal of charges. The attorney will be working for your son and in his best interests, but the attorney cannot create evidence or make existing evidence disappear.

If, as a note, your ex-husband can be found complicit in any way (e.g., willingly supplied the alcohol or was aware your son had the alcohol), he might need an attorney of his own.

I understand that you want your son held accountable for his actions. And, if guilty of the charge, he should be. But I am not seeing that having an attorney works against this goal - especially if you can get dad to agree to having your son help pay the costs involved.

"Joint legal custody" works when both parents are willing to discuss options and share in making a final decision that is in the best interest of their child. This often requires compromise on the part of the parents.

 

[stealth2]

You DO understand that a PD will also be doing his/her best to get your son the best possible outcome, right? Which may mean "getting him off" despite your wishes. I agree that your son needs a lawyer, and if his grandparents are willing to pay for one - it might be a good idea. Should you let the prosecutor know what your son told you? Probably. WRT the diversion? It seems there MAY be more to the story than you believe.

 

[kaizen]

Well, despite my reaching out via email and telling dad that while I did not feel hiring a lawyer was necessary but if he chose to do that, I'd roll with it in the spirit of JOINT legal decision making. I did make it very clear that I wanted to be kept in the loop about appointments so I could attend, or calls so we do a three way call.

He told me (all this via email) that he would keep me updated and of course I should be there to help defend our son.

After school yesterday, he did what I suspected he would. He picked son up from school and took him to atty. He sent me a text, saying he'd call me when they were in front of him. He never did that, and he never responded to any of my calls/texts. Son told me dad took him phone away from him when he got in dad's car. As if I believe that....

I called the intake probation officer and have a meeting with him this afternoon. I want to let him know my goal is to help son, not just to get him off. I went to courthouse (on advice of my attorney who I'd previously hired and is being kind in answering some of my questions thru this). I spoke to Judicial services officer to add the time dad took to my previous list of parenting time complaints. Last month, she was upset by this very thing happening. Today she told me not to come in front of her again, that I have bigger issues but that she'd send dad a warning letter. She then told me I should NOT go to the prosecutor or to the juvenile probation intake officer. She told me instead I should get a lawyer.

I left confused and shaken.

Also, she gave me a motion package to fill out to get a motion prohibiting dad from picking up son from school on my time.

Regardless, I am going to see the juvenile intake officer this afternoon to let him know my motivation is not to get son off, but to get him help.

As an aside, I saw the list of witnesses for the prosecution, and dad is on it (presumably because he picked son up from party). I have little doubt he'll perjure himself.

 

[Zigner]

Your son's attorney is your son's attorney. Not yours.

 

[kaizen]

I understand that.

I also understand initially there was a conversation between parent and attorney alone. That is the part - the initial discussion of this whole mess - that I resent not being in attendance for. You know, the part where an attorney might say "this looks good (or bad, or hopeful or not, etc). The part where the attorney explains the process to the parents.....

Yeah, that part.

 

[>Charlotte<]

I just want to iterate what stealth said, because it's directed to (what seems to be) your biggest concern.

Whether it's a private attorney or public defender, it is not your son's attorney's job to orchestrate an outcome that protects his rights but also teaches him a lesson, or to cooperate in any way with the prosecutor to ensure your son doesn't get away with something, or to worry about the implications to your son's future character if he walks away from this scot-free. It is the attorney's job to vigorously defend your son against all charges. If he's doing his job he's not interested in justice, he's interested in winning. As he should be. You do the parenting, he'll do the lawyering.

 

[stealth2]

I just want to iterate what stealth said, because it's directed to (what seems to be) your biggest concern.

Whether it's a private attorney or public defender, it is not your son's attorney's job to orchestrate an outcome that protects his rights but also teaches him a lesson, or to cooperate in any way with the prosecutor to ensure your son doesn't get away with something, or to worry about the implications to your son's future character if he walks away from this scot-free. It is the attorney's job to vigorously defend your son against all charges. If he's doing his job he's not interested in justice, he's interested in winning. As he should be. You do the parenting, he'll do the lawyering.

VERY well stated!