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Underage drinking tickets

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Knowing that the juvenile justice system is woefully inadequate to the task of deterring youthful indiscretion, I have long exemplified a philosophy with my three sons that the punishment I impose shall greatly exceed the "crime". None of this "the punishment shall be equal to the crime" stuff at my house.

When we focus on the justice system to demonstrate what is right and wrong, we - as parents - surrender to the state that which we should be taking on. That is, instilling the discipline and direction for a moral upbringing that builds and instills character and behavior necessary to be a responsible and productive adult. As a parent I do not want the state instilling its secular morality upon me anyway. I do not care what the justice system might do to my children because the ultimate authority in our lives is NOT the state. If the state fails to discipline, that's all right by me because I will do that which is right, regardless.

The juvenile justice system is subject to whims of legislators that do not have the best interests of me or my child at heart. The system is also subject to dispassionate judicial review and nuances of the law that often prevent it from being an effective deterrent. As such, we cannot rely on it.

I applaud any parent or step-parent that enforces values in his or her home regardless of the consequences imposed (or not imposed) by the state.

- Carl
Thank you Carl.
 


ec_surf

Junior Member
However just recently I received an underage drinking ticket and my questions are will receiving this ticket have any effect on the tickets I received before, Will the penalty be worse because of my other tickets that were dropped, and what do you think would be the punishment for this?
I have had friends who've recieved drinking tickets and multiple ones at that. Each of their cases has been very similar to yours also. When charged for a second time, it will all come down to the situation you were in when the police showed up. For example, one of my friends got a DUI after getting a drinking ticket and his consequence was a one year prayer of judgement (which means if he comes off clean unless he's charged again with even a speeding ticket). This was a very light sentence only because of the environment he was found in.

I also wanted to add that those persons who say underage drinkers cannot be responsible are hipocrits if they were 18 before 1984 when the National Minimum Drinking Age Act was passed. I do understand the argument made concerning the fact that it is illegal but that does not mean underage drinkers cannot handle being responsible while under the influence. Another fact: it isn't illegal to consume alcohol under the age in a some states still, it's only illegal to purchase. Still speaking my mind here, don't you all believe if the drinking age was lowered, then college/highschool drinking would not be such a problem and that it would save a lot of tax dollars spent on prosecuting these people? I mean, since it is illegal and kids superiors do not condone underage drinking, this motivates a lot of teenagers to rebel and do otherwise.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
ec_surf said:
I also wanted to add that those persons who say underage drinkers cannot be responsible are hipocrits if they were 18 before 1984 when the National Minimum Drinking Age Act was passed.
Why? Because it was once legal in some states to drink at under 21 does not make anyone a HYPOCRITE for asserting that underage drinking is bad. All because it is legal does no make it good. Smoking is also bad for you, but over 18 it's legal ... this does not make it okay.

I do understand the argument made concerning the fact that it is illegal but that does not mean underage drinkers cannot handle being responsible while under the influence.
But, the likelihood that they will NOT be able to handle it well is greatly uincreased in youth for a host of reasons - both physical and sociological.

Another fact: it isn't illegal to consume alcohol under the age in a some states still, it's only illegal to purchase.
To clarify, there are some situations where underage consumption is not unlawful. You cannot, for instance, receive alcohol from a friend and start drinking it on the street because you did not buy it. Underage consumption is generally unlawful, though there are circumstances where it can be lawful ... like at your own hom with your parents' permission, for instance.

Still speaking my mind here, don't you all believe if the drinking age was lowered, then college/highschool drinking would not be such a problem and that it would save a lot of tax dollars spent on prosecuting these people?
No, I do not believe that. In fact, I believe the current spike in youthful alcohol abuse would become a mountain.

I mean, since it is illegal and kids superiors do not condone underage drinking, this motivates a lot of teenagers to rebel and do otherwise.
Kids rebel for all sorts of reasons.

- Carl
 

Bretagne

Member
To answer the poster's original question:

Every case like this is unique, so there is no good answer. Depends on the judge, the prosecutor, the local tradition. In my area, a judge will give you a greater amount of community service or a larger fine for a second offense. In other areas, they don't care and don't respect the zero tolerance laws and may rubber-stamp a $100 fine. So, you'll either have to wait and see or retain a local attorney who is familiar with the local procedure.

Since this thread has taken a somewhat philosophical turn, I feel a desire to chime in here.

Yes, it is illegal in all states for people under the age of 21 to consume and/or possess alcoholic beverages. Yet you can marry, smoke, vote, and join the military at the age of 18 when the law says you become an "adult". Why the inconsistency?

I remember a great con law case from law school. Used to be that states and localities had the ability to determine their own age limits when it comes to alcohol. See Craig v. Boren, wherein:

The interaction of two sections of an Oklahoma statute, Okla.Stat., Tit. 37, § 241 and 245 (1958 and Supp. 1976), [n1] [p192] prohibits the sale of "nonintoxicating" 3.2% beer to males under the age of 21 and to females under the age of 18. The question to be decided is whether such a gender-based differential constitutes a denial to males 18-20 years of age of the equal protection of the laws in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Of course, such a gender-based differential was found to violate the Fourteenth Amendment. However, the question remains, why would Oklahoma have such laws in the first place? Well, I know the answer. Some say that it's because women are generally thought to "mature" quicker than their male counterparts. But the truth of the matter is that older men like younger women, so these laws allowed 21+ year old men to monopolize tavern access to 18 year old girls. None of those pesky 18 year old boys to compete against when going out on the town on a Friday night.

And these laws were not unique to Oklahoma; many "rural" states allowed young women to drink before young men. These laws were unconstitutional, thus illegal, thus we don't need to have any respect for them now. Just because the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 ("the Act") has been held constitutional and therefore legal, does not mean that we should automatically support or respect a nationwide 21+ limitation. In fact, many anti-federalists, libertarians, and republicans strongly oppose the Act based on their convictions, not their morals.

I, personally and morally, do not believe that it is "fair" that a man can die for his country (or, in the age of our occupation of Iraq, at least lose a leg or two) and not be able to lawfully consume a beer. I, professionally and ethically, question legislation which is passed only under duress that non-compliant states will lose their federal highway funding. I, academically and socially, support civil disobedience to the extent that each American citizen has the ability to choose whether or not to obey all laws, no matter how bizarre or seemingly unfair. It is more noble to question that which is imposed on us than to follow that which is directed to us.

And frankly, a kid drinking beer before 21 is either going to end up an alcoholic someday, or not. The age of first consumption will have very little, if anything, to do with later chemical dependency. It's more an issue of genes, social surroundings, and behavioral patterns.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
What is "fair" and what is legal are two different issues, and the two do not always run hand in hand. However, since this is generally supposed to be a legal forum and not one for discussions of what the law should be, we will have to simply let things stand as they are.

Legally, there are exceptions to laws against underage drinking. I posted only to clarify ec_surf's misinterpretation of what the law currently is.

I'll leave my personal thoughts on the issue for another forum.

- Carl
 

Adr3naline fix

Junior Member
Underage-No BAC listed...dismissible?

Got an underage. I'm the only one out of the entire party to get one that did not have the BAC listed. Is this slip-up enough to dismiss my ticket? (1st offence, University Student)

Thank you
HCR
 

moburkes

Senior Member
Got an underage. I'm the only one out of the entire party to get one that did not have the BAC listed. Is this slip-up enough to dismiss my ticket? (1st offence, University Student)

Thank you
HCR
This thread is from 2006. Please start your own thread for your question, AND if you feel the need to post on another person's thread, please check the date first.
 

ladyscribbler

Junior Member
Not legal yet

Well, I am 20 years old so I am not a kid and I have never gotten a DUI. I got a zero tolerance ticket because I blew a .03 after having 3 beers at a bonfire. I don't have any problems with alcohol or with using it responsibly.
There is no responsible drinking before 21. An MIP is for care, custody, and control. You don't have to drink a drop or be driving to get a ticket if you are not 21. Drinking is not a choice until you are 21, just like driving and voting have an age, so does drinking. Did you just start at 20, or was it when you were still a kid that you had your first drink? The average onset age in America is around 13. What was your argument then?
 

ladyscribbler

Junior Member
Turning a blind eye

I am in Illinois too, and I wish my stepson would have had your judge. He just went to court on his first offense ever...illegal transport of alcohol my a minor. He got 90 days supervision. Period. No fine, no community service, no suspension of license. I am outraged. How can I try to teach responsibility, accountability, and the concept that there are consequences for your actions when, obviously, there really aren't?
CASA (Center on Addition and Substance Abuse) has a saying:

"If you can get a child to 21 without using drugs, abusing alcohol, or smoking, they are likely to never do so."

As long as a child is growing (including the brain) they metabolize alcohol differently than a grown adult (for males this age is actually a few years beyond 21). They are much more likely to become addicted and in a much shorter period of time. These are medically poven facts that logic, retoric, and wishful thinking can not make go away. Very few alcoholic adults waited until legal age to begin drinking. There is the rub.

Alcohol is the biggest drug problem we have in this country. Parents and law enforcement are doing young people no favors by turning a blind eye.
 

ladyscribbler

Junior Member
Body truth

I have had friends who've recieved drinking tickets and multiple ones at that. Each of their cases has been very similar to yours also. When charged for a second time, it will all come down to the situation you were in when the police showed up. For example, one of my friends got a DUI after getting a drinking ticket and his consequence was a one year prayer of judgement (which means if he comes off clean unless he's charged again with even a speeding ticket). This was a very light sentence only because of the environment he was found in.

I also wanted to add that those persons who say underage drinkers cannot be responsible are hipocrits if they were 18 before 1984 when the National Minimum Drinking Age Act was passed. I do understand the argument made concerning the fact that it is illegal but that does not mean underage drinkers cannot handle being responsible while under the influence. Another fact: it isn't illegal to consume alcohol under the age in a some states still, it's only illegal to purchase. Still speaking my mind here, don't you all believe if the drinking age was lowered, then college/highschool drinking would not be such a problem and that it would save a lot of tax dollars spent on prosecuting these people? I mean, since it is illegal and kids superiors do not condone underage drinking, this motivates a lot of teenagers to rebel and do otherwise.

Until the body stops growing (including brain, but thankfully not excess pounds) it metabolizes alcohol differently than a full-grown adult. No logic, rhetoric, or wishful thinking changes the facts. Also, since the average onset age for the using of alcohol in America is around 13, would you propose making that the legal age? The age was raised to 21, because of the harm it did to youthful bodies. Very few adult alcoholics waited until 21 to begin drinking. Ask the professionals who treat them.

CASA has a saying:
"If you can get a child to 21 without using drugs, abusing alcohol, or smoking, they are likely to never do so."

Check it out: www.casacolumbia.org

Learn the facts - then talk.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
scribbly - this is a very old thread. In the future, check the dates and stop necroposting.
 

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