Want juvenile delinquent out of my house!

[egodfrey]

What is the name of your state? Arizona

My son started being a problem at 12 years old when he stole credit cards form my wallet and went online and signed up for every porn service he could find. Our bills go out monthly automatically and I found out what was going on 3 months later when my credit card was declined. After investigation my son had run up over 1200 in fraudulent pornography charges over 3 months. Choices... press charges or pay the bills... We punished him and started counseling and paid the bills. When he wanted a cell phone we got him one on the family plan. Month 1 - He ran over and cost about $100. We explained emergency use, took his phone away a week and then returned it. Month 2. Over by $275. Very angry conversation, more explanation, no phone and grounded a week. Month 3 – absolutely defied us and purposely rang up $500 in overage charges. He will never have a phone again under our name.
Gave him part time job in our company and paid him well for it.. Cosigned for a bank account. Made him put most of check in bank but keep some spending money, but made mistake in letting him keep ATM Card. He took all his money out blew it on Manga Anime books and when he needed more money, committed bank fraud and nearly got our accounts closed (we were co-signers on his account) by putting a blank envelope in the deposit slot and taking money against the non-existent deposit. We’ve caught him stealing several times and he has taken about $2500 over the last 3 years. (we have him on video tape). He can’t keep a job, he ran away because we are so unfair to him. We accepted him back into our home and he became intolerable with attitude. He is on his 3rd school this year as he keeps skipping classes and refusing to work at school. I had him arrested for bringing drugs into our house about 30 days ago. He had a bag of marijuana, 2 hash pipes along with a concealed meat cleaver in his bag?? They left him in our custody and said they would be in touch…. 30 days nothing…. Meanwhile, we are the bad guys and he has left again. We are on our 2nd filing of runaway status. We have tried positive re-enforcement, negative re-enforcement, family counseling, psychologists, psychiatrists, etc. He lies about everything. He defies our rules and will not do what he is told. He will listen to no one. He steals from us every opportunity he gets. I want him out of my house for good. He is not here now as he is a runaway again, and I assume when we get the paperwork for his court date they will issue a bench warrant and I can have him arrested when I find where he is, but my question is what are my rights. We do not beat him, we do everything to try to make his life better than what we had. His 2 year old younger sister is President of the Drama Club, President of the School choir and gets straight A’s. He will not try. How do I get him permanently out of my custody?

I know every one will say I am horrible, but I am tired… I’ve got 6 years of working my butt of to try to help him while he absolutely does nothing for himself and defies every rule of my house. He knows right form wrong. It’s time to stand on his own. Trust me this is only the tip of the iceberg or highlihgts of the story! Any help??

Raising a juvenile delinquent in Arizona!

 

[StickyFingers]

What is the name of your state? Arizona

My son started being a problem at 12 years old when he stole credit cards form my wallet and went online and signed up for every porn service he could find. Our bills go out monthly automatically and I found out what was going on 3 months later when my credit card was declined. After investigation my son had run up over 1200 in fraudulent pornography charges over 3 months. Choices... press charges or pay the bills... We punished him and started counseling and paid the bills.

First mistake...

When he wanted a cell phone we got him one on the family plan.



Month 1 - He ran over and cost about $100. We explained emergency use, took his phone away a week and then returned it.

Like you didn't know that he was irresponsible and wouldn't treat the privilege with respect...

Month 2. Over by $275.

I saw this one coming...

Very angry conversation, more explanation, no phone and grounded a week. Month 3 – absolutely defied us and purposely rang up $500 in overage charges. He will never have a phone again under our name.

That will show him!!!

Gave him part time job in our company and paid him well for it.. Cosigned for a bank account. Made him put most of check in bank but keep some spending money, but made mistake in letting him keep ATM Card.

Gee....I'll just shake my head at this one...

He took all his money out blew it on Manga Anime books and when he needed more money, committed bank fraud and nearly got our accounts closed (we were co-signers on his account) by putting a blank envelope in the deposit slot and taking money against the non-existent deposit. We’ve caught him stealing several times and he has taken about $2500 over the last 3 years. (we have him on video tape). He can’t keep a job, he ran away because we are so unfair to him.

What does it take for you to understand that your child is irresponsible?....I got a 2x4 ?...

We accepted him back into our home and he became intolerable with attitude. He is on his 3rd school this year as he keeps skipping classes and refusing to work at school. I had him arrested for bringing drugs into our house about 30 days ago. He had a bag of marijuana, 2 hash pipes along with a concealed meat cleaver in his bag?? They left him in our custody and said they would be in touch…. 30 days nothing…. Meanwhile, we are the bad guys and he has left again. We are on our 2nd filing of runaway status. We have tried positive re-enforcement, negative re-enforcement, family counseling, psychologists, psychiatrists, etc. He lies about everything. He defies our rules and will not do what he is told. He will listen to no one. He steals from us every opportunity he gets. I want him out of my house for good. He is not here now as he is a runaway again,

Damn, doesn't the term 'Home Training' mean anything anymore?

We do not beat him,

Maybe a good swat could have done him some good....got my attention right quick...

we do everything to try to make his life better than what we had.

You are trying too hard....

I know every one will say I am horrible, but I am tired… I’ve got 6 years of working my butt of to try to help him while he absolutely does nothing for himself and defies every rule of my house. He knows right form wrong. It’s time to stand on his own. Trust me this is only the tip of the iceberg or highlights of the story! Any help??

Raising a juvenile delinquent in Arizona!

Yep....Let him go....called tough love...

You created this monster...now you can deal with him.."Spare the rod and spoil the child" does not apply in every case. (and your daughter has no relevance to the situation with your son...STOP COMPARRING THE TWO!)

A case that is well suited for IAAL's "Brazil Method"

 

[egodfrey]

Our great legal system at work

Update,

Our great legal system continues. Our son and 3 of his juvenile delinquent friends broke into our home today. They stole $300 in cash, a lot of food, all the booze they could find in the house, a stereo system, all the video game systems and some really stupid stuff. Our police have done nothing to this point. I went out and found him in less than an hour by waving money in the face of one of his loser "so called" friends. I got him, brought him back to our house and called the police. He has charges in the system now for carrying a concealed weapon, felony possession of marijuana (45 days now no call from the detectives), 2 runaways and now burglary. They won't even take him to a juvenile facility. That is only for violent criminals... you know like me when I finally snap and hit him. The police filed the charges, talked to him and got nowhere. We offered our son staying in our house and following our rules, checking into rehab tonight ( he was high on marijuana the whole time), or get out and stay out. I went into the bathroom and he said goodbye to his mom and left.
I think he understands it would be a really bad idea to break into my home again. I give up on him otherwise. He needs to hit rock bottom. I'll report him gone again, but I'm done.
From the police officers... there is nothing in our legal system to look out for the rights of a parent whose kids will not comply. I'll report him runaway again, but I can rest assured they will do nothing to find him... and I'm not going to look for him any longer.

 

[egodfrey]

Yep....Let him go....called tough love...

You created this monster...now you can deal with him.."Spare the rod and spoil the child" does not apply in every case. (and your daughter has no relevance to the situation with your son...STOP COMPARRING THE TWO!)

I DID NOT create a monster. Sure he came from me, but the choices that have been made are ALL HIS. He has been disciplined physically over the years, but not recently. At 17 I should not have to do that any longer. My point is the same environment worked great for the other kid. In 6th grade my son won an award as best overall student in his class in 8th grade he won award for best English student in his class. The friends he chose and the peers he listened to created the monster, not me or my wife. Sure we are partly to blame because none of the myriad of things we tried worked.

Every one of us has to take personal responsibility for who we become... My son is no different. I just pray to god that he wakes up and smells the coffe before it is too late for him.

 

[smutlydog]

Yep....Let him go....called tough love...

You created this monster...now you can deal with him.."Spare the rod and spoil the child" does not apply in every case. (and your daughter has no relevance to the situation with your son...STOP COMPARRING THE TWO!)

I DID NOT create a monster. Sure he came from me, but the choices that have been made are ALL HIS. He has been disciplined physically over the years, but not recently. At 17 I should not have to do that any longer. My point is the same environment worked great for the other kid. In 6th grade my son won an award as best overall student in his class in 8th grade he won award for best English student in his class. The friends he chose and the peers he listened to created the monster, not me or my wife. Sure we are partly to blame because none of the myriad of things we tried worked.

Every one of us has to take personal responsibility for who we become... My son is no different. I just pray to god that he wakes up and smells the coffe before it is too late for him.

environment worked great for the other kid

I hear this all the time. What worked on one child didn't work on the other. Different children respond differently to the environment. Even twins sometimes respond differently.

For these biologically deficient children life can be tough. This child may have needed more attention and encouragement as well as more structure than your daughter. They also do better with social rewards for good behavior rather than material things.

To make matters worse he now lives in the shadow of his sister. I assure you his friends didn't create him. He simply found a crowd that he feels comfortable with. Does this mean you are a bad parent? No unless their is something you haven't shared with us or maybe he experienced something traumatic that you don't know about.

It's still at least possible that he may grow out of this. On the other hand he may end up dead or prison. You may have no choice but to kick him out at this point. That doesn't mean you have to stop loving him or giving him emotional support. This shouldn't include financial support because that will only enable him to continue the negative behavior. In fact him living at your house is enabling him.

 

[CMcG]

I wish I had answers for you. We have 15 yr old twin girls with the same behavior and it's just too much for the whole family. All I can think of to get them in front of a judge is if they petition the court to be emancipated. With their immaturity it would NOT be granted, but then a judge would ask they "why" and their reason is that they don't like our rules.
Our rules are:
In at curfew (8:00 p.m.) in our town, no screaming cuss words, no throwing objects at us or others, no breaking holes in walls, windows, and no running away. and last...no more sex in the drainage ditch or elsewhere until they're at least older and mature enough to raise a baby. Marriage would be nice, but what can you do.
Anyway, once in front of the judge for emancipation and he would hopefully question us as parents, he would see that these girls need a placement with a group home or something, where they get constant supervision, etc.
We've also done all the police calls. No actual reports, they didn't even keep any incident reports on file (I called today to get those). Counseling, done that. Medication, done that too. Mother/Daughter talks, done it all. They just don't want anyone telling them what to do or not do. Their words, "just leave me alone and stay out of my life...mind your own business." What goes on in our home is OUR business.

 

[fairisfair]

Great legal system??? I live in the exact same legal system that you do, with 3 teenagers, and none of them steals, robs, burglarizes, drinks, does drugs or to my knowledge, is having sex in ditches.

This is a parenting issue, like it or not. Not that your kid isn't a monster, but sticky is right, he is YOUR monster, not ours. You have given him every reason to be irresponsible, let's see, jobs, money , cell phones, no responsiblity for the costs he has created what do you expect now that he is older and capable of bigger crimes.

You might petition the court to rule him incorrigible. You will need to file the petition in juvenile court. couldn't find the form, and quite honestly, not that motivated to look (except for your SON) here is some info though. this is not a referral to an attorney, but related info from an attorney's website http://www.vanosteen.com/columns/familylaw/incorrigible-children.asp

Oh, by the way, nice touch, adding your full name and city and state to the posting. Maybe you can embarrass him and the rest of your family into being better people.

 

[Silverplum]

Yeah, great legal system. It utterly failed to re-parent your child, starting from the cradle.

Great legal system??? I live in the exact same legal system that you do, with 3 teenagers, and none of them steals, robs, burglarizes, drinks, does drugs or to my knowledge, is having sex in ditches.

This is a parenting issue, like it or not. Not that your kid isn't a monster, but sticky is right, he is YOUR monster, not ours. You have given him every reason to be irresponsible, let's see, jobs, money , cell phones, no responsiblity for the costs he has created what do you expect now that he is older and capable of bigger crimes.

You might petition the court to rule him incorrigible.

Oh, by the way, nice touch, adding your full name and city and state to the posting. Maybe you can embarrass him and the rest of your family into being better people.

 

[CMcG]

I have 4 teens, one elementary child and two adult children and 6 grandchildren. They're all different. But none of them other than 2 of the teens (the twins) have exhibited this kind of behavior. did I raise all of them exactly the same? No. They've all gotten the same love, the same opprotunities in life...each tailored to their needs and abilities.
There are some kids who just truly don't care what adults say to them and refuse all attempts of guidance, discipline. I'm more concerned for what they're headed for as years pass than our own frustration. Their choices now are so hurtful to themselves, and we've talked about this. Police and probation have also talked to them about it. They won't listen. And that hurts me for them. So much potential being lost.

 

[smutlydog]

I have 4 teens, one elementary child and two adult children and 6 grandchildren. They're all different. But none of them other than 2 of the teens (the twins) have exhibited this kind of behavior. did I raise all of them exactly the same? No. They've all gotten the same love, the same opprotunities in life...each tailored to their needs and abilities.
There are some kids who just truly don't care what adults say to them and refuse all attempts of guidance, discipline. I'm more concerned for what they're headed for as years pass than our own frustration. Their choices now are so hurtful to themselves, and we've talked about this. Police and probation have also talked to them about it. They won't listen. And that hurts me for them. So much potential being lost.

Twins = possible biological and or environmental factors

There are some kids who just truly don't care what adults say to them and refuse all attempts of guidance, discipline

Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)
usually a child with this condition is much better off as an only child. Like I said in my other post some children have special needs.

Always build on the positives, give the child praise and positive reinforcement when he shows flexibility or cooperation.
Take a time‑out or break if you are about to make the conflict with your child worse, not better. This is good modeling for your child. Support your child if he decides to take a time‑out to prevent overreacting.
Pick your battles. Since the child with ODD has trouble avoiding power struggles, prioritize the things you want your child to do. If you give your child a time‑out in his room for misbehavior, don't add time for arguing. Say "your time will start when you go to your room."
Set up reasonable, age appropriate limits with consequences that can be enforced consistently.
Maintain interests other than your child with ODD, so that managing your child doesn't take all your time and energy. Try to work with and obtain support from the other adults (teachers, coaches, and spouse) dealing with your child.
Manage your own stress with exercise and relaxation. Use respite care as needed.

 

[CMcG]

There are definitely biological factors with the twins. We adopted them from my younger sister who had/has a drug problem, poor choices in husbands and dx'd as a pathological liar. She's 1000's of miles away from where we live, but the girls were with her for 7 yrs...learning the most important early childhood lessons from this person. It's sad.
I've never heard of ODD, but that surely sounds like something to check into for the girls. And walking away from the heated moments is something that I taught all the kids, and practice often. It's so important to know when to take a break from one another to cool down.
This evening I had a very GOOD, NICE, CIVIL talk with one of the twins. She came home alone, she's the less dominant of the two. It was so nice to be able to talk to her. She asked permission to stay at her friends house (a girl I actually got to meet and talk too) and before she left she gave a hug and said, "I love you Mom." Those are the moments we cherish and dwell on during the tough times.
Thank you for your reply...you made perfect since and it was very helpful.
Connie

 

[StickyFingers]

hear this all the time. What worked on one child didn't work on the other. Different children respond differently to the environment. Even twins sometimes respond differently.

For these biologically deficient children life can be tough. This child may have needed more attention and encouragement as well as more structure than your daughter. They also do better with social rewards for good behavior rather than material things.

To make matters worse he now lives in the shadow of his sister. I assure you his friends didn't create him. He simply found a crowd that he feels comfortable with. Does this mean you are a bad parent? No unless their is something you haven't shared with us or maybe he experienced something traumatic that you don't know about.

It's still at least possible that he may grow out of this. On the other hand he may end up dead or prison. You may have no choice but to kick him out at this point. That doesn't mean you have to stop loving him or giving him emotional support. This shouldn't include financial support because that will only enable him to continue the negative behavior. In fact him living at your house is enabling him.

I know you didn't mean to quote me...but yet respond to what the OP said to my response...

But I agree...

And Egod... Just as some teams work...(be it family or whatever),,,

Actions reflect leadership...Something for you to think about.

Leadership comes from home....

Home training is the best any child could get.

 

[tanz]

Great legal system??? I live in the exact same legal system that you do, with 3 teenagers, and none of them steals, robs, burglarizes, drinks, does drugs or to my knowledge, is having sex in ditches.

This is a parenting issue, like it or not. Not that your kid isn't a monster, but sticky is right, he is YOUR monster, not ours. You have given him every reason to be irresponsible, let's see, jobs, money , cell phones, no responsiblity for the costs he has created what do you expect now that he is older and capable of bigger crimes.

You might petition the court to rule him incorrigible. You will need to file the petition in juvenile court. couldn't find the form, and quite honestly, not that motivated to look (except for your SON) here is some info though. this is not a referral to an attorney, but related info from an attorney's website http://www.vanosteen.com/columns/familylaw/incorrigible-children.asp

Oh, by the way, nice touch, adding your full name and city and state to the posting. Maybe you can embarrass him and the rest of your family into being better people.

Your'e a DICK.
This person is looking for help for a heartbreaking sitiuation and all you can do is kick him in the throat while he is down. Teen years can be tough for all involved and sometimes (believe it or not dick) no amount of good parenting will help. As far as the police matter he isn't asking them to parent them he is only asking them to do their job, THEIR JOB DICK. I was also burglurized when I lived in Phoenix and when I called the police they refused to even come over to investigate. They took the report over the phone and that was it. I had just got out of the ARMY serving in Desert Storm had bought a house full of awesome electronics and the thieves took everything and the police couldn't care less. This gentleman was robbed and guess what? Unless you are someone of importance the police will not do their job. I don't know why it is that way in Phoenix/Mesa it just is. Here in WY is another story but I digress.

Now I am speaking to the person who wrote the original post not you DICK. I know why you gave so much to your son even when it seemed stupid to do so. Because you love him and was hoping these things would jump start him into being the man you know he is capeable of becomming. Sometimes parental love can be so blinding. We see them not for the monster they have become but the child that they once were. So innocent and full of possibilities. This is the love for the child we must conceal and lock away inside our hearts when they go this far. He made his choices and they are way over the line. Maybe it is repairable and maybe not but he will have to grow up first and do the work to gain the trust back. He may never do either and you have to accept that
As for you DICK pride cometh before the fall and while you are breaking your arm patting yourself on the back I would keep a keen eye out for the inevitable because life has a funny way humbling those that lack humility.

 

[CMcG]

Some things are beyond parenting issues. When a child begins to break the law, and breaking into a house and stealing IS a crime, then it becomes a matter of the police taking the responsibility to do their job.
This week I asked my daughter if she thinks she's beyond the law and can break any laws or rules she wants. Her answer, "Evidently I already have." She committed mail fraud, breaking into a house that was unoccupied to have sex, public sex, was on speed the other day and kicked in the garage door, threw things at me. Told me I was nothing, called me every vulgarity you could imagine.
You would think that this girl had absolutely no parental guidance. But she's been given every opprotunity. Private school in her younger years, music lessons, "girl nights" with chic flicks, nail police and make up parties, all the mother daughter talks, time in the kitchen together cooking. I'm a good mother. I am here for my kids and they know it. But when you have a child that WANTS to run the streets (and recently admitted gang friends), regardless of all the parental love, concern, direction, encouragement, sternness, gentleness, what can you do. ODD? I think not. What I do think is that because parents aren't allowed to truly discipline their kids without cps taking them away and the police refuse to do their job, we're raising a generation of lawlessness.
It has nothing to do with our parenting skills. I know how to parent my children, I've been doing it for almost 30 years. What might need to be offered is "Child-ing" classes rather than parenting classes. Teach these kid how to be a good child, a productive part of the family. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if parents "need" to be taught how to be a parent that maybe a child needs to be taught how to be a child.

 

[smutlydog]

Some things are beyond parenting issues. When a child begins to break the law, and breaking into a house and stealing IS a crime, then it becomes a matter of the police taking the responsibility to do their job.
This week I asked my daughter if she thinks she's beyond the law and can break any laws or rules she wants. Her answer, "Evidently I already have." She committed mail fraud, breaking into a house that was unoccupied to have sex, public sex, was on speed the other day and kicked in the garage door, threw things at me. Told me I was nothing, called me every vulgarity you could imagine.
You would think that this girl had absolutely no parental guidance. But she's been given every opprotunity. Private school in her younger years, music lessons, "girl nights" with chic flicks, nail police and make up parties, all the mother daughter talks, time in the kitchen together cooking. I'm a good mother. I am here for my kids and they know it. But when you have a child that WANTS to run the streets (and recently admitted gang friends), regardless of all the parental love, concern, direction, encouragement, sternness, gentleness, what can you do. ODD? I think not. What I do think is that because parents aren't allowed to truly discipline their kids without cps taking them away and the police refuse to do their job, we're raising a generation of lawlessness.
It has nothing to do with our parenting skills. I know how to parent my children, I've been doing it for almost 30 years. What might need to be offered is "Child-ing" classes rather than parenting classes. Teach these kid how to be a good child, a productive part of the family. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if parents "need" to be taught how to be a parent that maybe a child needs to be taught how to be a child.

but the girls were with her for 7 yrs...

You don't think this may have had an affect on these girls

It may be things they can't even remember or maybe ashamed to discuss. We are all taught about individual responsibility but keep in mind it's usually mentally stable people that are pushing this concept.

I am not trying to make excuses for breaking the law. We have laws and punishment for breaking those laws. Citizens can't be safe without a system like this.

You need to just keep trying different therapist until you find the right one. Do they have trouble keeping friends? Did this start when they became teens or has it been like this from the start?