bad faith and security deposit

[kmiecikm]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
key points:
1. sent a request for return of security deposit, on January 13th, we moved from the apt on November 3rd, We never recieved anything from previoud landlord postmarked by the 21st day after moving out.

2. we recieved a response to the tune of a bill for $4,292.55
Listed as:
$350 for removal of items from driveway and backyard
$1000 (one thousand dollars) For cleaning the entire apt, stating the condition of the bathrooms, kitchen (including stove and microwave) ceiling fan, floors, inside/outside of cupboards, windows, doors and mirrors is not considered normal wear and tear <--- this is verbatim from statement
$292.55 +$150 for new blinds and installation, condition was not considered normal wear and tear
$670 replace broken mirrored closet doors
$110 replace broken shower valve in master bathroom shower (valve meaning the knob that turns the water on and off only the plastic piece was broken, shower would turn on but you couldn't turn it off unless you had vice grips or a screwdriver cause the plastic piece was cracked. It was brought to the the attention o the landlord)
$1420 for replacement of the counter top, because of water damage on the outside and inside cabinets, considered negligence on our part because we never notified the landlord of this problem also stated that it was a breech of contract. This counter top they charged the full price to us for is the orginal counter top from when the bulding was buit in 1976, and since it is tile "sinking" also known as settling is a normal occurence and can be proven by testimony of installers of tiled counter tops.
$275 for patching and painting perperation (there were no excessive holes in the walls or damage to the walls. there were parts damaged but it was due to a pre existing condition of the plumbing)
$25 late fee for november 2014 rent (no mention of how much rent we owed for that month, seeing as we were there three days for that month, and have not payed for those three days, why not put it in this statement right?)
Less security deposit of $1875
we owe 2417.55
Landlord claims she did not know where to send this "bill" which is why she didn't send it until we requested our security deposit for her defaulting on the 21 day period. the letter starts by saying "thank you for sending your contact info" She did have my husbands cell number and our previous address, in regards tot he law she could have sent it to the previoud known address. Which she did not.
Our letter stated we would give her ten days to return our security deposit or we would file in small claims because she lost all right to the security deposit by not notifying us within the 21 day time period, (that it put in laymens terms, i had a very professional sounding no errors letter.
Other points
She sent a text to my husband stating "i hope you get what you deserve"
The items that she had to remove where only still there becasuse salvation army (the place we contacted to remove said items, were told that they were not allowed on the premise. Our neighbior had arranged to be there when they showed up so they knew what to take. part of that removal charge was for a couch down the street that she assumed was ours and had to dispose of, this couch with a free sign was not on her property and infact belonged to someone two apt houses down, different bulding and different owner. (a lot of this is from verbal communication so not much proof to be had on my part) I was also not allowed to take photos of the apt at move out time, She said that if i did she would sue for the pictures back as they were considered her property, again a verbal communication from the landlord. (i did not take pictures because of the harrasment from her regarding it.
We were not notified of being able to request a pre move out insoection when she served us our 60 day notice, We did request one and her response was "i dont have to do that and im not going to do that, You just need to move out"
She made countless comments to me about being pregnant stating "you know what causes that right" and " maybe you shouldn't have any more kids"
Starting November 1st she kept coming by saying "are you going to be out in time? and have everything spotless?"
The apt was not spotless when we moved in.
The counter top is the orginal one from the 1976 build,
The Blinds were installed by a previous landlord sometime before or around 2004,
The walls were not painted prior to us moving in, nor were the cupboards cleaned, I know this because There were still A LOT of dishes in the cupboards upon move in.
The windows and screens were dirty and dingy, I took time on a regular basis to clean the windows and screens. as it got dusty.
We were given a letter stating that our children could not play outside about 6 months before being given a 60 day notice to move. However her son who lived in the front unit had a son and he played outfront (which is technically a driveway) all the time when he had him and this son of hers in physcially disabled) The children were never out front with out adult supervision, She claims its because she didn't want to get sued incase they got run over. not sure how she could be held liable for that. We complied as best we could. started taking my kids to the park more often, but even walking down the drive way i would get an earful about the letter she sent about the kids playing out front. (we can not get to the side walk without walking through the driveway, it was impossible.
mirrored doors are excessive in cost as home depot has the ones she had in the apt for $110, thats mid range price they had cheaper calue ones, but for sake of "quality" i go with mid range prices. The track did not need to be repaired or a new one installed. I with the help of my mom and neighbor cleaned that apt from top to bottom. The ceiling fan i can tell you was NOT dirty as we always had it running upstairs and never had a chance to collect dust, I even made sure to clean it also.
I find these charges in extreme excess of what should have been charged.
I'm wondering if with the text she sent, and this statement of items she provided we can prove bad faith when we go to court about it. She never gave us a copy of our rental agreement after it was signed even though mulitple request had been made. She would only talk to and respond to what my husband would tell her, If i tried calling her she either wouldn't answer or if saw her in person she would completely ignore me. When talking to my husband about the apt, if i came to jooin the conversation, she would shut up and say "we will talk about it later" I was named on th lease and had every right to know about what was being said regarding the apt.

 

[Silverplum]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
key points:
1. sent a request for return of security deposit, on January 13th, we moved from the apt on November 3rd, We never recieved anything from previoud landlord postmarked by the 21st day after moving out.

2. we recieved a response to the tune of a bill for $4,292.55
Listed as:
$350 for removal of items from driveway and backyard
$1000 (one thousand dollars) For cleaning the entire apt, stating the condition of the bathrooms, kitchen (including stove and microwave) ceiling fan, floors, inside/outside of cupboards, windows, doors and mirrors is not considered normal wear and tear <--- this is verbatim from statement
$292.55 +$150 for new blinds and installation, condition was not considered normal wear and tear
$670 replace broken mirrored closet doors
$110 replace broken shower valve in master bathroom shower (valve meaning the knob that turns the water on and off only the plastic piece was broken, shower would turn on but you couldn't turn it off unless you had vice grips or a screwdriver cause the plastic piece was cracked. It was brought to the the attention o the landlord)
$1420 for replacement of the counter top, because of water damage on the outside and inside cabinets, considered negligence on our part because we never notified the landlord of this problem also stated that it was a breech of contract. This counter top they charged the full price to us for is the orginal counter top from when the bulding was buit in 1976, and since it is tile "sinking" also known as settling is a normal occurence and can be proven by testimony of installers of tiled counter tops.
$275 for patching and painting perperation (there were no excessive holes in the walls or damage to the walls. there were parts damaged but it was due to a pre existing condition of the plumbing)
$25 late fee for november 2014 rent (no mention of how much rent we owed for that month, seeing as we were there three days for that month, and have not payed for those three days, why not put it in this statement right?)
Less security deposit of $1875
we owe 2417.55
Landlord claims she did not know where to send this "bill" which is why she didn't send it until we requested our security deposit for her defaulting on the 21 day period. the letter starts by saying "thank you for sending your contact info" She did have my husbands cell number and our previous address, in regards tot he law she could have sent it to the previoud known address. Which she did not.
Our letter stated we would give her ten days to return our security deposit or we would file in small claims because she lost all right to the security deposit by not notifying us within the 21 day time period, (that it put in laymens terms, i had a very professional sounding no errors letter.
Other points
She sent a text to my husband stating "i hope you get what you deserve"
The items that she had to remove where only still there becasuse salvation army (the place we contacted to remove said items, were told that they were not allowed on the premise. Our neighbior had arranged to be there when they showed up so they knew what to take. part of that removal charge was for a couch down the street that she assumed was ours and had to dispose of, this couch with a free sign was not on her property and infact belonged to someone two apt houses down, different bulding and different owner. (a lot of this is from verbal communication so not much proof to be had on my part) I was also not allowed to take photos of the apt at move out time, She said that if i did she would sue for the pictures back as they were considered her property, again a verbal communication from the landlord. (i did not take pictures because of the harrasment from her regarding it.
We were not notified of being able to request a pre move out insoection when she served us our 60 day notice, We did request one and her response was "i dont have to do that and im not going to do that, You just need to move out"
She made countless comments to me about being pregnant stating "you know what causes that right" and " maybe you shouldn't have any more kids"
Starting November 1st she kept coming by saying "are you going to be out in time? and have everything spotless?"
The apt was not spotless when we moved in.
The counter top is the orginal one from the 1976 build,
The Blinds were installed by a previous landlord sometime before or around 2004,
The walls were not painted prior to us moving in, nor were the cupboards cleaned, I know this because There were still A LOT of dishes in the cupboards upon move in.
The windows and screens were dirty and dingy, I took time on a regular basis to clean the windows and screens. as it got dusty.
We were given a letter stating that our children could not play outside about 6 months before being given a 60 day notice to move. However her son who lived in the front unit had a son and he played outfront (which is technically a driveway) all the time when he had him and this son of hers in physcially disabled) The children were never out front with out adult supervision, She claims its because she didn't want to get sued incase they got run over. not sure how she could be held liable for that. We complied as best we could. started taking my kids to the park more often, but even walking down the drive way i would get an earful about the letter she sent about the kids playing out front. (we can not get to the side walk without walking through the driveway, it was impossible.
mirrored doors are excessive in cost as home depot has the ones she had in the apt for $110, thats mid range price they had cheaper calue ones, but for sake of "quality" i go with mid range prices. The track did not need to be repaired or a new one installed. I with the help of my mom and neighbor cleaned that apt from top to bottom. The ceiling fan i can tell you was NOT dirty as we always had it running upstairs and never had a chance to collect dust, I even made sure to clean it also.
I find these charges in extreme excess of what should have been charged.
I'm wondering if with the text she sent, and this statement of items she provided we can prove bad faith when we go to court about it. She never gave us a copy of our rental agreement after it was signed even though mulitple request had been made. She would only talk to and respond to what my husband would tell her, If i tried calling her she either wouldn't answer or if saw her in person she would completely ignore me. When talking to my husband about the apt, if i came to jooin the conversation, she would shut up and say "we will talk about it later" I was named on th lease and had every right to know about what was being said regarding the apt.

Wow. That was every single fact.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/sec-deposit.shtml

 

[kmiecikm]

I would like to add, That after requests no invoices or recpits have been furnished to us for the work they had done and all the things to had to buy.
I find it odd that this statement they sent it in exact dollar amounts, (save for the blinds) the doors purchased should have been charged tax, and most bills i get for painting or cleaning are not exact dollar amounts like the cclenaing fee, $1000 seems to exact something more like $968 would sound more accurate, as Flat fees are rarely applied, I get requesting a payment for time spent locating someone to remove items but we had someone there to remove the items for FREE, why did she have to pay $350.

If the prices charged are prejudicely high, meaning shes charging us these amounts because she didn't like us, can that be considered bad faith, and Making it seem like we owe them money when we dont and she just infalted prices to try to intimidate us into not filing a small claims suit, is that considered bad faith. Im well aware that if we go to court that she can counter claim, By not responding to our recent requests which have all been by written form. is there a chance she could win?
The landlord, also did not state on the letter sent to us when the Money was due by. Nor did the physically sign it, they just tyoed their names, (husband and wife landlord, bet dealt mostly with the female most of the time)
Would they try to claim that we altered the letter? Cause i will go have this letter finger printed to show that her fingerprints are indeed on this letter.
I worried the second i saw that there was no physcial signature.

 

[Silverplum]

I would like to add, That after requests no invoices or recpits have been furnished to us for the work they had done and all the things to had to buy.
I find it odd that this statement they sent it in exact dollar amounts, (save for the blinds) the doors purchased should have been charged tax, and most bills i get for painting or cleaning are not exact dollar amounts like the cclenaing fee, $1000 seems to exact something more like $968 would sound more accurate, as Flat fees are rarely applied, I get requesting a payment for time spent locating someone to remove items but we had someone there to remove the items for FREE, why did she have to pay $350.

If the prices charged are prejudicely high, meaning shes charging us these amounts because she didn't like us, can that be considered bad faith, and Making it seem like we owe them money when we dont and she just infalted prices to try to intimidate us into not filing a small claims suit, is that considered bad faith. Im well aware that if we go to court that she can counter claim, By not responding to our recent requests which have all been by written form. is there a chance she could win?
The landlord, also did not state on the letter sent to us when the Money was due by. Nor did the physically sign it, they just tyoed their names, (husband and wife landlord, bet dealt mostly with the female most of the time)
Would they try to claim that we altered the letter? Cause i will go have this letter finger printed to show that her fingerprints are indeed on this letter.
I worried the second i saw that there was no physcial signature.

Well, then *I* will add one more thing: don't forget to account for the costs of delivery and installation (and other associated labor costs) for your wreckage replacements. People don't work for free, do they?

 

[kmiecikm]

Well, then *I* will add one more thing: don't forget to account for the costs of delivery and installation (and other associated labor costs) for your wreckage replacements. People don't work for free, do they?

My Husband installs floors, and Because of his trade we know at least one person who does the work they are talking about.

don't forget that in in the letter they sent i wrote it down verbatim, so if you go back and look they they charged us the installation fee for the blinds, but did not write down that they had to pay someone to install three mirrored glass doors, just that they replaced them, based on verbiage, they did not pay someone to install them, and i wouldn't know cause they have refused to send copies of invoices and reciepts.

Also, Because the blinds were not brand new we should not be given the full charge to replace them but the depriciated value.
Im a bit offended that you would even think that i think people work for free. I do however know that Flat fees like this are extremely uncommon.
My husband and I did what we coculd and no one is prefect, we were not expecting the return of the enitre security deposit, BUT we are Entitled to have everything done in a timely manner, meaning they should have obeyed the 21 day rule set by the state of CA. I am not in the wrong for requesting my entire security deposit be returned because the landlord defualted in their duty. I did my part and the landlord has to do their part, its a two way street. I dont get why if a landlord wants to charge a tenant for a brand new counter top that that is ok, or for the fukl amount of items that are clearly years old. The mirrors broke to do years of wear and tear, and again the tenant should not have to bare the full weight of brand new replacements. If we caused it to wear out before the expected usage time we should only be chraged for the amount that they lost out on and that is all.

The only reason Im going after bad faith charges is 1. the amount they still say we owe, after months had passed, they made NO attempt to try to collect this or show us proof that it is accurate.and 2. for derogatory comments made via text messsage. If they wanted to spend $1000 cleaning an apt that is on them. We can only be chraged what is resonable and unkless some how that apart got caked in dirt and grease and grime and haz mat had to come out $1000 is beyond unresonable.

Im well versed in people trying to rake other people over the coals, and I get really tired when people try to get "free things" and before a "well youre trying to not pay for damages caused by your family" argument ensues. this isn't about What we think we owe versus what they say we owe. its About the LAW, the clear fact is they were negligent on their part to get to us in the 21 day time period, so we can therefor not be held responsible for it. The Landlord is the the one who faulted. if this statement alonf with invoices and reiepts was sent and post marked by the 24th of november, all i would do argue that the prices are unredonable and work with them to figure out prices that are resonable to all parties involved. The landlords had EVERY chance to follow these laws and chose not to because we did not leave a forwarding address. We are not required to. We had our mail forwarded and if she had sent a letter to the previous apt we would have recieved the letter,No were in the letter she sent us did it even state that they tried to contact us previously, save for the two text messages they sent. Yes they did include the fact that two texts on two different days were sent and yes we do still have those texts. one of which says "i hope you get what you deserve" Do i think the charges are Fair absolutely not, do i believe we are liable for some damage done yes. And in my filing i even have it so that I am not asking for the whole security deposit back, They can keep what is resonable to get hte apt in move in condition which is a minimal cleaning fee, and partial payment for the blinds, because they were those cheap vertical blinds all apts have that rarely make it past a five year life because they are cheap and flimsy, and all that had to be replaced where the actual slats not the mechanisim that controls them, those worked fine, the slats are what got damaged. I think im being fair, im a decent person but i don't take kindly to being treated the way i was at that apt. What Landlord has the right to say "you should stop having kids" which our neighbor over heard and can testify against.

 

[kmiecikm]

Well, then *I* will add one more thing: don't forget to account for the costs of delivery and installation (and other associated labor costs) for your wreckage replacements. People don't work for free, do they?

Im accounting for what was written on the itemized statement. If they were charged for installing then that should be broken down, Or we be given something that states it. This letter came form the landlord, and Unless they wrote that they were charged installion fees, it can be assumed in court that installation fees were not charged to us.
If they had given recipets and invoices as requested also then I could sumerize better where the money went. But All i have to go on is what they wrote. And what they wrote is strewn with inflated information. And if asked to prove with photos the things they have listed on that statement and they did in deed have the photos they would literally incrimante themselves. As what was written down is not at all the truth.
As ive stated i dont mind paying for the "damage" we may have casued, assuming it was really our fault and we are only charged resonable fees for said items.
Bad faith is because they kept our security deposit without informing us of this and providing the correct documention to us and for the text messages, That i have prooof she admits to sending.

 

[Gail in Georgia]

'Im well versed in people trying to rake other people over the coals, and I get really tired when people try to get "free things" and before a "well youre trying to not pay for damages caused by your family" argument ensues. this isn't about."

Well then, file a lawsuit in Small Claims over this matter and be done with it.

Gail

 

[kmiecikm]

This website is called free advice.com yet most everyone just wants to troll. I came here to see what others had to say about the charges. And about the situation to see if bad faith is a possible. IT would be nice if people good give honest advice rather than act like I'm doing something wrong. This is my perspective and not court and I want honest advice about how my perspective looks. So please stop trolling and making comments not related to what I'm asking. I'm one to respond because it does irk me. I gave as many facts as I could to get as much advice as I could. Hoping people who actually give advice start commenting soon and look at what I wrote instead of trying to make it sound like I'm " implying" something.

And why quote the " I'm well versed ...... Portion. All that shows is that a lot of people try to get things for free, and or get away with bad service. I do my best to not let that happen to me that's all it means. Which is why I'm here for ADVICE

 

[Silverplum]

This website is called free advice.com yet most everyone just wants to troll. I came here to see what others had to say about the charges. And about the situation to see if bad faith is a possible. IT would be nice if people good give honest advice rather than act like I'm doing something wrong. This is my perspective and not court and I want honest advice about how my perspective looks. So please stop trolling and making comments not related to what I'm asking. I'm one to respond because it does irk me. I gave as many facts as I could to get as much advice as I could. Hoping people who actually give advice start commenting soon and look at what I wrote instead of trying to make it sound like I'm " implying" something.

And why quote the " I'm well versed ...... Portion. All that shows is that a lot of people try to get things for free, and or get away with bad service. I do my best to not let that happen to me that's all it means. Which is why I'm here for ADVICE

I gave you a comprehensive informational link in my very first response.



You are welcome.

 

[Gail in Georgia]

"Which is why I'm here for ADVICE "

No, you aren't. You're here to present a long winded argument on why you find these charges extreme and if anyone disagreed with you there would yet be another long winded posting on why we were wrong.

If you disagree with what your landlord is claiming, review the link Silverplum provided. Hopefully you took pictures of the place at move in and move out to back up some of your claims of previous conditions should this end up in court. Make sure your claim that the landlord had the responsibility to call your husbands cell phone and/or mail this information to your previous address is a legal requirement in your state or your claim for the 21 day requirement may go down the toilet since it appears you failed to notify the landlord of your new address on where to send this information.

If this does end up in court, keep your arguments short and sweet. Judges often have little tolerance for long arguments on issues they've heard many times before.

Good luck.

Gail

 

[FarmerJ]

Gail is correct, use the small claims courts to hear your claim. You wrote > I with the help of my mom and neighbor cleaned that apt from top to bottom.<<<< then by all means have them go to court with you to say they helped you clean and that you all did a reasonable job. You wrote >>$350 for removal of items from driveway and backyard<<<<< Huge thing here, you did not say what your final move out date was but if you left things behind and no longer had any days of paid rent then you should have taken the time to remove them your self , the LL didn't have to let anyone else on the property to remove anything as in Salvation army , the time to have Sally out was when you were still living there so what was your move out date and how many more days of rent had you paid for in order to still have a say in who could enter the property to remove the give away things? As to the 21 days to address the deposit I think the LL did a lousy job on that because if they had sent it out to last known address on time they still would have covered their butts. Any items that should have been depreciated ask the court to do it since the LL did not. You wrote >>>$110 replace broken shower valve in master bathroom shower (valve meaning the knob that turns the water on and off only the plastic piece was broken, shower would turn on but you couldn't turn it off unless you had vice grips or a screwdriver cause the plastic piece was cracked. It was brought to the the attention o the landlord)<< It cant hurt you to ask the court for the LL to tell you why they could not get a replacement knob and why this amount is fair if the knob was all that was needed. You wrote >>$275 for patching and painting perperation (there were no excessive holes in the walls or damage to the walls. there were parts damaged but it was due to a pre existing condition of the plumbing) <<< then argue it and bring your pics with you that you took and if you did not take pics argue it anyway , the counter LL is partially right , if there was a leak you should have reported it , but bring a tile installer with you to court who can speak about why this may have happened and again ask what the depreciated value was or for the court to set it. Then ask the court to decide if this LL owes you any kind of penalty since they simply could have sent it to your last known address even if it was the one they rented to you . Leave out what you said that you were told by the other person about your brood, It wont help you and the court does not want to know about that kind of drama unless your going to choose to have this matter settled by one of the well known television arbitrators who make a living off others drama for entertainment.

 

[kmiecikm]

If you would kindly re-read my first post. I ask if all this could be considered bad faith. This isn't a matter of whether I have a case in small claims court. It's a matter of is it worth it to try to go after bad faith charges. Which no one has answered. Or given any advice on. So pardon me if I get mad at the fact that everyone is acting like I'm this awful person. It's one sided yes. And since I'm not in court I can be long winded. I wrote my side of a story in my first post. But seeing as the whole security deposit issues are so taboo everyone is coming at me as if I'm trying to avoid paying for damages. Short answer yes. I do not have to pay for a counter top upgrade if it could have been repaired ( a corner was sinking) and I should not have to pay for new blinds I should only pay the portion that made her lose whatever life would have been left in them. Maybe the person who posted above me should re-read exactly what the heck I'm asking.

DOES WHAT I HAVE IN HAND CNSTITUTE AS BAD FAITH? And if not what would I need to prove.

Still hoping someone who has any understanding of "bad faith" can come in and give an answer.

The answers/ advice I'm getting are like asking what time is it? And someone answering it's daylight gosh can't you see that.

 

[Silverplum]

If you would kindly re-read my first post. I ask if all this could be considered bad faith. This isn't a matter of whether I have a case in small claims court. It's a matter of is it worth it to try to go after bad faith charges. Which no one has answered. Or given any advice on. So pardon me if I get mad at the fact that everyone is acting like I'm this awful person. It's one sided yes. And since I'm not in court I can be long winded. I wrote my side of a story in my first post. But seeing as the whole security deposit issues are so taboo everyone is coming at me as if I'm trying to avoid paying for damages. Short answer yes. I do not have to pay for a counter top upgrade if it could have been repaired ( a corner was sinking) and I should not have to pay for new blinds I should only pay the portion that made her lose whatever life would have been left in them. Maybe the person who posted above me should re-read exactly what the heck I'm asking.

DOES WHAT I HAVE IN HAND CNSTITUTE AS BAD FAITH? And if not what would I need to prove.

Still hoping someone who has any understanding of "bad faith" can come in and give an answer.

The answers/ advice I'm getting are like asking what time is it? And someone answering it's daylight gosh can't you see that.

And since I'm not being paid to read (much less re-read) your delightfully colloquial posts, I'm not going to do that.

I suggest you hire an attorney.

 

[kmiecikm]

Thank you farmerJ. For the record that " long winded" post was not about wrote you.

The texts she sent are going to be a part of our case. As she did admit to sending two texts. The texts she sent were not nice or professional. So we plan on presenting them to the judge As they are time stamped. Since the burden is on the tenant to prove bad faith, with everything combined ( the excessive charges she said we owe ( mainly the cleaning cost, the cost of a new counter, and the replacement of the knob) along with the two texts she admits to sending in the bill she sent us and the fact that they made no attempt to mail anything previous to us requesting it and after the 21 day period. Could all that prove bad faith ?

My husband and I have others matters to address to them but those are being filed with the fair housing authority. And are already being investigated.

This is strictly trying to see if we can prove bad faith.

 

[kmiecikm]

Attorneys are not permitted in california small claims court. yes I could hire one to help me build my case. But seeing as I have all the evidence already. All I want to know is about bad faith in regards to holding the security deposit and how best to prove it. Or if what I have could potentially prove it.