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Can the landlord deduct part of deposit for "extra occupancy"?

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mstislav

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY, NYC

Hi,

I'm on a short-term lease in an NYC apartment (two months), and I'm soon to go back home (overseas). I've had my girlfriend visiting for two weeks (which I announced up front, with no protests from the landlord) and a friend for ten days. Now, as the end of my stay is approaching, the landlord tells me she'll deduct $65 per visitor from my deposit for the "extra occupancy" and the higher utility bill resulting from it. In the contract it says utilities are included in the rent, and there is no clause saying "no visitors". The contract does say I will be the sole occupant. Can the landlord do this? (Another thing is that the extra electricity used for an extra couple of hours of showering, mobile phone charging, hardly amounts to more than thirty bucks or so, as far as I can see.) It's not that the amount of money would be unbearable or anything, it's rather that I really don't care to be taken for an idiot. What do you guys think?

Best,
M.
 


Gail in Georgia

Senior Member
You mentioned getting approval for the girlfriend to stay for two weeks.

What about the friend for 10 days? Did you also discuss this with your landlord?

Gail
 

mstislav

Junior Member
Not really--he came on an impulse trip and decided to stay for a while. He was visiting me, and since nothing in the contract says anything about visitors, and also since landlord didn't object 1st time, I assumed it'd be OK. I guess the problem here is that the "occupant" and "visitor" terms weren't defined in the contract. It says clearly without qualifications that utilities are included in the rent.
 

Gail in Georgia

Senior Member
On the other hand, your contract does state you are the "sole occupant". Perhaps your landlord didn't object the first time because you requested permission to do so first. By the second go-round they began to feel a bit used.

How much would it have cost your friend to stay in a hotel in New York City for 10 days? Far more than $65.

Gail
 

mstislav

Junior Member
According to NY Real Property Law § 226-b(2),

"It is unlawful for a landlord to restrict occupancy of an apartment to the named tenant in the lease or to that tenant and immediate family. When the lease names only one tenant, that tenant may share the apartment with immediate family, one additional occupant and the occupant’s dependent children..." http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/attygenguide.html#7
 

Gail in Georgia

Senior Member
So the girlfriend was the "additional occupant" and the friend who showed up is what...the occupant's dependent children? I suspect not.

Look; you stated you're leaving soon to go back overseas. Your landlord has a certain amount of time to return your security deposit. They do not have to return it the day you leave. If they keep the $65 for the additional wear and tear on the rental unit, are you going to come back to the states to sue them over this amount?

Gail
 

Searchertwin

Senior Member
mstislav;3049471]According to NY Real Property Law § 226-b(2),

"It is unlawful for a landlord to restrict occupancy of an apartment to the named tenant in the lease or to that tenant and immediate family. When the lease names only one tenant, that tenant may share the apartment with immediate family, one additional occupant and the occupant’s dependent children..." http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/attygenguide.html#7
Correct Real Property Law - N.Y. RPP. LAW § 235-f : NY Code - Section 235-F: Unlawful restrictions on occupancy:

"It shall be unlawful for a landlord to restrict occupancy of
residential premises, by express lease terms or otherwise, to a tenant
or tenants or to such tenants and immediate family. Any such restriction
in a lease or rental agreement entered into or renewed before or after
the effective date of this section shall be unenforceable as against
public policy."

No where does it state, "one additional occupant". Good try. Might as well add "their pets" if you can get away with this.

Yes, the LL can charge this "occupant" a rental fee. And yes, he can charge for usage of the extra electric. This is done by averaging the bills about three months. Is it really worth the aggravation of $65.00? After all, you chose to let them stay.
 

Who's Liable?

Senior Member
Yes, the LL can charge this "occupant" a rental fee.
No, the LL cannot charge them a rental fee because it is NOT listed in the lease, according to what the OP stated. Please post WHERE in the OPs lease it states the LL can charge for an extra occupant who stayed for more than a reasonable amount of time.

And yes, he can charge for usage of the extra electric. This is done by averaging the bills about three months.
No, the LL cannot charge for usage of extra electric, because the LL agreed to pay for ALL electric REGARDLESS of use. Please post WHERE in the OPs lease it states the LL can charge for "extra" electric usage.

Is it really worth the aggravation of $65.00? After all, you chose to let them stay.
LL should be smart enough to include any additional electric usage, by putting a dollar cap amount, AND by including language as to what will be charged if additional people are in the unit for "x" amount of time.
 

BL

Senior Member
Correct Real Property Law - N.Y. RPP. LAW § 235-f : NY Code - Section 235-F: Unlawful restrictions on occupancy:

"It shall be unlawful for a landlord to restrict occupancy of
residential premises, by express lease terms or otherwise, to a tenant
or tenants or to such tenants and immediate family. Any such restriction
in a lease or rental agreement entered into or renewed before or after
the effective date of this section shall be unenforceable as against
public policy."

No where does it state, "one additional occupant". Good try. Might as well add "their pets" if you can get away with this.

Yes, the LL can charge this "occupant" a rental fee. And yes, he can charge for usage of the extra electric. This is done by averaging the bills about three months. Is it really worth the aggravation of $65.00? After all, you chose to let them stay.
Per post #3 ,you seem to pick and chose what sentence to post. :rolleyes:

According to NY Real Property Law § 226-b(2),

"It is unlawful for a landlord to restrict occupancy of an apartment to the named tenant in the lease or to that tenant and immediate family. When the lease names only one tenant, that tenant may share the apartment with immediate family, one additional occupant and the occupant’s dependent children..." http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/attygenguide.html#7
Additionally NY law states that anything written into a lease that goes against state law is unenforceable and any questionable clause may be decided by the court.

It's unclear ,unless I missed it,that these two Guest or occupants resided there at the same time.

I however agree ,that SD must be returned in a reasonable amount of time.Usually 30 days is reasonable but may be longer depending on the circumstance .

The tenant can always sent the LL a RRR Certified mail citing the absence of extra cost for guest and request that deduction not be applied. Don't be surprised though if the LL comes up with a deduction from a legitimate cause.

As an aside , these persons were not occupants , they were Guest ,and according to the tenant nothing was written into the lease about extra cost of having guest .
 
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Searchertwin

Senior Member
BL;3049594]Per post #3 ,you seem to pick and chose what sentence to post. :rolleyes:
Sorry, but I didn't do such a thing. I could not find the following section and I did look. If I did find it, I would not have contradicted the op post. I would have not commented. Take care
 

Searchertwin

Senior Member
No, the LL cannot charge them a rental fee because it is NOT listed in the lease, according to what the OP stated. Please post WHERE in the OPs lease it states the LL can charge for an extra occupant who stayed for more than a reasonable amount of time.
Post where he said it didn't. You can't, you don't have the whole lease to view. LL knew the person was living there for a long period of time. He can ask for rent from this person. No one lives rent free. If op had in writing from the LL that friend was visiting, than no, LL could not charge an amount for the that person.

And two weeks is a very long time to stay at one place without LL giving permission in writing. I know you will argue that two weeks is not. But that's my opinion.

Advice for op. Next time, I would get in writing from LL that you intend to have a person stay for an x amount of day or week. This will protect you.

LL should be smart enough to include any additional electric usage, by putting a dollar cap amount, AND by including language as to what will be charged if additional people are in the unit for "x" amount of time.
Agree. But what makes you think that there is not a section stating just that?

No, the LL cannot charge for usage of extra electric, because the LL agreed to pay for ALL electric REGARDLESS of use. Please post WHERE in the OPs lease it states the LL can charge for "extra" electric usage.
Again, the lease is not here to view. It is possible there is a section listing such terms. Op may chose to leave that part out.
I know you will come back saying we work with only what is mention. And that's fine. Take care.
 

BL

Senior Member
Post where he said it didn't. You can't, you don't have the whole lease to view. LL knew the person was living there for a long period of time. He can ask for rent from this person. No one lives rent free. If op had in writing from the LL that friend was visiting, than no, LL could not charge an amount for the that person.

And two weeks is a very long time to stay at one place without LL giving permission in writing. I know you will argue that two weeks is not. But that's my opinion.

Advice for op. Next time, I would get in writing from LL that you intend to have a person stay for an x amount of day or week. This will protect you.



Agree. But what makes you think that there is not a section stating just that?


Again, the lease is not here to view. It is possible there is a section listing such terms. Op may chose to leave that part out.
I know you will come back saying we work with only what is mention. And that's fine. Take care.
Opinion isn't law ,and if you had read this thread ,you would/would have seen what the Law states, just like many threads and postings on this board.

Read and comprehend the law with regards to the context.

The law allows guest,no mention of additional fees ,neither did the lease.

Even if the guest became occupants ,it's allowed ,unless in public housing or the like.

In cases of occupant ,the tent must notify the LL within 30 days of the occupants information. No mention of addition fees.
 
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