Disputed late rent... does landlord have to PROVE that rent was late?

[photobywes]

Hi, I live in Washington and recently moved into a large apartment complex. I pay my rent as I have for the past 3 years with US Bank bill pay. I specify the date that the check is to arrive, and they mail it out in plenty of time to arrive by that date. I got a notice on my door saying that my rent was received late and that I now owe over $100 in penalties for that. I highly doubt that it was in fact delivered late, and I have evidence on my online banking records that it was mailed on August 31st for a Sept 3rd delivery which would be 2 days prior to the deadline. It is my suspicion that it was set aside, misplaced, overlooked, whatever you want to call it. The point is, I have no way of knowing when it was actually delivered, so if they want to evict me based on me not paying late charges for an alleged late rent payment, can they do that with no evidence that it was actually received late? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

 

[Zigner]

Hi, I live in Washington and recently moved into a large apartment complex. I pay my rent as I have for the past 3 years with US Bank bill pay. I specify the date that the check is to arrive, and they mail it out in plenty of time to arrive by that date. I got a notice on my door saying that my rent was received late and that I now owe over $100 in penalties for that. I highly doubt that it was in fact delivered late, and I have evidence on my online banking records that it was mailed on August 31st for a Sept 3rd delivery which would be 2 days prior to the deadline. It is my suspicion that it was set aside, misplaced, overlooked, whatever you want to call it. The point is, I have no way of knowing when it was actually delivered, so if they want to evict me based on me not paying late charges for an alleged late rent payment, can they do that with no evidence that it was actually received late? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

I would advise you to not send out the check so that it arrives a minimum of two days late.

 

[photobywes]

Thanks for that... I value any advice, but can we please keep it to what I am asking? I just want to know if they have to prove their case or not. It was scheduled to be delivered 2 days EARLY btw, not late.

I did exactly what I have done every month for every bill I have for the past 3 years without a problem. I am quite certain I am being screwed by this company, I just want to know what my rights are to defend myself from being evicted with no evidence to back up their claim.

 

[Zigner]

Thanks for that... I value any advice, but can we please keep it to what I am asking? I just want to know if they have to prove their case or not. It was scheduled to be delivered 2 days EARLY btw, not late.

I did exactly what I have done every month for every bill I have for the past 3 years without a problem. I am quite certain I am being screwed by this company, I just want to know what my rights are to defend myself from being evicted with no evidence to back up their claim.

If your rent is DUE on the 1st, it is LATE on the 2nd (generally speaking). If late fees don't apply until after the 5th., that doesn't mean you're not late on the 3rd.

 

[photobywes]

That is neither here nor there at this point in time. It is not considered late according to my lease until after the 5th of the month. It may different for you. Again, please keep comments constructive for me resolving this issue. A lecture about how early i should pay rent is beside the point. Thank you.

 

[Zigner]

That is neither here nor there at this point in time. It is not considered late according to my lease until after the 5th of the month. It may different for you. Again, please keep comments constructive for me resolving this issue. A lecture about how early i should pay rent is beside the point. Thank you.

Good luck !

 

[FarmerJ]

First is this rental office normally open on sat ? start asking other tenants if they know if office was open on friday the 3 or not if you learn the office closed early or was not open on friday or sat due to the holiday then go see them with copies of your records and go sit down and show them to the LL. As you politely tell them you found out after the fact that they were not open on friday /sat due to holiday weekend while you look for the persons reaction. if they still will not remove it and they were closed on days they normally were open for business then feel free to suggest you would be more than happy to let a court decide the matter if they wont remove the late fee. ( if they were open on fri -sat its still possible that it did not arrive in mail by closing and your free to try to get them to reduce it , if they wont then start sending it earlier or better yet with a method that gives you a reciept showing that they either signed for it or you get a confirmed delivery date , then if it ever happens again you have a stronger position to argue that your not obligated to pay a late fee.

 

[photobywes]

Thank You FarmerJ, that is good advice. On a new note, my rent check dated Sept. 3 has now cleared my account. Does the fact that they deposited the check with the date of the 3rd constitute that they agree to that as the date on which it was accepted? Or is that just a myth?

 

[Gail in Georgia]

OP...for what it's worth, my last couple of Billpay payments to our local water department (for houses we were working on) also showed up as being late, thus causing late fees to be added to my bills. And yes, the bank records showed it was mailed on time (in fact, always set up to be released two days prior to the deadline) but showed up in the utility department records as being processed one day after the deadline.

Discussions with the utilities department and my local bank proved fruitless; neither would admit that there was an error on either services part.

I suspect the issue was with the utilities department as this has not happened with any of my other Billpay accounts and the local water department is currently in hot water (pun intended) with our county commissioners for possible "guesstimating" water usage as opposed to actually reading meters....and the extra fees are a way of increasing their revenue.

Your rent payment through BillPay should be directly deposited into managements account, correct? If so, there is no way management could have physically misplaced it. You can double check with them regarding when they showed up in their account but to avoid further issues you may have to change the way your provide your rent (either change the BillPay to several days earlier, hand deliver the rent payment to the office and get a receipt documenting the day paid, etc.).

Gail

 

[atomizer]

It is a common misconception by tenants that if they mail or turn in their notice after the due date but within the deadline, that the rent is not late. The cut off date or grace period merely exempts you from a late fee, it does not protect you from an unfavorable LL comment should you seek the LL's referral. Banks utilize the USPS delivery, which is sometimes subject lost, delays, and in some cases non delivery.
I know this is not your question, but it may clear up further problems in the future. In the meantime, you can always fight your case in court if you can't resolve your problem with management.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

It can very well be a snail mail check that is being sent to the management company.

Is there a place ON SITE where you can just drop off a check on the 1st? Sure would save a lot of grief with that.

 

[photobywes]

Yes I can drop it off on site, which is what I will be doing from now on. I just like the set it and forget it nature of the billpay, but I think that they look for payments coming in the mail as an easy target to get late penalties off of, since apparently nobody can prove when it was delivered. I have just read so many bad reviews of this place online (after I moved in of course,) mostly about the staff and the shady stuff they do. Oh well, nobody is telling me that they must prove anything so I guess I just have to pay and consider it an expensive lesson. Thanks to all of you who answered!

 

[atomizer]

If your check cleared or was deposited on the 3rd, then that's all the proof you need to argue your point in and out of court.

 

[Who's Liable?]

Yes I can drop it off on site, which is what I will be doing from now on. I just like the set it and forget it nature of the billpay, but I think that they look for payments coming in the mail as an easy target to get late penalties off of, since apparently nobody can prove when it was delivered. I have just read so many bad reviews of this place online (after I moved in of course,) mostly about the staff and the shady stuff they do. Oh well, nobody is telling me that they must prove anything so I guess I just have to pay and consider it an expensive lesson. Thanks to all of you who answered!

LL does not have to prove anything, the tenant is the one that has to prove payment was made. Getting a receipt from the LL or an acting agent of the LL is your proof that you paid.

Drop boxes are just a a convenience the LL/management give their tenants, however it does not constitute an actual payment, just as a money order or cashiers check is not proof rent has been paid. It is only proof one purchased a money order or cashiers check.

 

[applecruncher]

photobywes – I’m not understanding what you’re saying re: “mail the check”. I use US Bank bill pay and it’s all done electronically. It’s not autopay because the customer always chooses the date they want the bill to be paid/deducted from their account. Did you set up an internet banking account? The bill pay service is free, and it’s credited as fast as the next day or two.

and I have evidence on my online banking records that it was mailed on August 31st for a Sept 3rd delivery which would be 2 days prior to the deadline.

There is no “mailing” or "delivery" of a paper check, the USPS is not involved at all, and there is no misplacing or overlooking by the payee. If you paid your rent online on Aug 31 it would have reached the payee's acct Sept 1 or 2 at the latest, and your bank account records would reflect that.