Excessive move-out charges

[bogusme]

What is the name of your state? CA

In July I vacated an apartment after living there for 13 months. An important fact in this matter is that I am a smoker. I smoke close to half a pack a day.
Two days before moving out I had a move-out inspection done by one of the apartment maintenance workers. He noted some things that needed to be done and gave me an estimate of about $300 if I were to let them handle it. He said that it would be much cheaper for me. My security deposit was $400. Since I was already very busy with packing and moving, this sounded like a good idea.
A few weeks ago I received a notice from the apartment management that I owe them $1600. This is in addition to my security deposit. The payment is due Sept. 7. It was noted that if full payment isn’t received by the due date, the account will be forwarded to a collection agency.
Here are some of the items that I was charged for:
1. Replacement of the carpet in the entire apartment. There was a note attached from “Rob Price Carpet Cleaning” stating that due to strong odor and nicotine residue, he recommends that the carpet be replaced.
2. Replacement of all of the mini blinds – smoke damage from cigarettes. Note: these were standard white metal blinds.
3. Full spray paint of apartment – smoke damage from cigarettes.
4. HVAC cleaning – cleaning of all the air ducts.

The issue that I have is that this was all done without my knowledge and without giving me a chance to attempt to correct any perceived damage myself. The items listed above seem (to put it mildly) quite excessive to me.

My question is: Is this legal? What should be my next step? Do I have to pay the entire amount? Do I have any legal recourse?

Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[HomeGuru]

What is the name of your state? CA

In July I vacated an apartment after living there for 13 months. An important fact in this matter is that I am a smoker. I smoke close to half a pack a day.
Two days before moving out I had a move-out inspection done by one of the apartment maintenance workers. He noted some things that needed to be done and gave me an estimate of about $300 if I were to let them handle it. He said that it would be much cheaper for me. My security deposit was $400. Since I was already very busy with packing and moving, this sounded like a good idea.
A few weeks ago I received a notice from the apartment management that I owe them $1600. This is in addition to my security deposit. The payment is due Sept. 7. It was noted that if full payment isn’t received by the due date, the account will be forwarded to a collection agency.
Here are some of the items that I was charged for:
1. Replacement of the carpet in the entire apartment. There was a note attached from “Rob Price Carpet Cleaning” stating that due to strong odor and nicotine residue, he recommends that the carpet be replaced.
2. Replacement of all of the mini blinds – smoke damage from cigarettes. Note: these were standard white metal blinds.
3. Full spray paint of apartment – smoke damage from cigarettes.
4. HVAC cleaning – cleaning of all the air ducts.

The issue that I have is that this was all done without my knowledge and without giving me a chance to attempt to correct any perceived damage myself. The items listed above seem (to put it mildly) quite excessive to me.

**A: the items seem correct to me.
*****
My question is: Is this legal?

**A: yes.
**
What should be my next step?

**A: send L a check.
*****
Do I have to pay the entire amount?

**A: you should.
******
Do I have any legal recourse?

**A: for what? You could have resolved the issues but failed to do so.
******

Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

**A: you're welcome.

 

[JETX]

And I agree with HG....

 

[bogusme]

One more clarification...

Thanks for the input (though it's not what I was hoping for). There is one point that I was hopng to get comment on. That is the excessiveness.
This is the first time that I ever heard of a carpet needing to be replaced due to smoke odor. Other than the odor it was in perfect condition. Why not just clean and deodorize?
Same issue in regard to the mini blinds. Why not just clean them?
My guess is that it was probably easier and faster to just replace the items, but it definately was more expensive.
This is what bothered me most. I felt that I should at least have some input as to how my money was spent.

Again, any and all comments appreciated.

 

[JETX]

Why not just clean and deodorize?
Same issue in regard to the mini blinds. Why not just clean them?
This is what bothered me most. I felt that I should at least have some input as to how my money was spent.

Those questions can be answered, and your input considered, if/when this matter goes to court.

 

[bogusme]

Those questions can be answered, and your input considered, if/when this matter goes to court.

Great! Now we're getting somewhere....
In looking through California's L/T laws, I couldn't really find anything specific pertaining to this issue. Here are some followup questions:
1. In court, would the burden of proof fall on me? If so, without any evidence (since the items have already been replaced and I don't have pictures or such) would I stand a chance?
2. What sort of court? Would this be something for a small claims court or other?
3. Do you think that it would be worth my while to hire a lawyer to pursue this or would it just be a waste of my time and money?
4. Assuming that it is worth my while pursuing this, should I pay first (since the payment is due Sept. 7) and attempt to reclaim the money later?

Again, I really appreciate this input. As you can already probably tell, I'm completely clueless in these matters.

Thanks!!!

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

My response:

The judge is going to laugh this landlord right out of court!

Unless there was a restriction in your lease, e.g., "No smoking in leased premises", then smoking comes under the "normal wear and tear" ambit of the law. (See Civil Code § 1950.5, et seq.)

Since smoking is not an illegal activity, and since it's highly unlikely that you purposefully meant to cause damage to the premises by smoking, then the landlord is climbing a steep uphill mountain. It is likely this landlord has been using this "gambit" to pay for new interiors on the backs of former tenants for a long time. Don't let him shovel his sh!t on you!

IAAL

 

[bogusme]

My response:

The judge is going to laugh this landlord right out of court!

Unless there was a restriction in your lease, e.g., "No smoking in leased premises", then smoking comes under the "normal wear and tear" ambit of the law. (See Civil Code § 1950.5, et seq.)

Since smoking is not an illegal activity, and since it's highly unlikely that you purposefully meant to cause damage to the premises by smoking, then the landlord is climbing a steep uphill mountain. It is likely this landlord has been using this "gambit" to pay for new interiors on the backs of former tenants for a long time. Don't let him shovel his sh!t on you!

IAAL

Again, thanks everyone for the replies!
There were no restrictions in the lease in regard to smoking. I did carefully read through California Civil Code § 1950.5. The problem that I encounter is that there is no clear definition of "ordinary wear and tear". In all of my searches to this point, I get conflicting information in regard to smoking and whether or not it falls under the definition of "ordinary wear and tear" (as you will also note in the above replies).

My feeling in this case is that landlord is running a scam and that is my main motivation for wanting to pursue this further.

Assuming that I want to take this to court, which would be a better course of action?
1. Pay the bill and then hire an attorney to recover the money (note: as mentioned above, the amount is due Sept. 7. I probably won't have time to find and hire an attorney by then since Sept. 6 is a holiday).
2. Don't pay, and wait for the Landlord (or collection agency?) to take this to court.

Thanks!

 

[HomeGuru]

Again, thanks everyone for the replies!
There were no restrictions in the lease in regard to smoking. I did carefully read through California Civil Code § 1950.5. The problem that I encounter is that there is no clear definition of "ordinary wear and tear". In all of my searches to this point, I get conflicting information in regard to smoking and whether or not it falls under the definition of "ordinary wear and tear" (as you will also note in the above replies).

My feeling in this case is that landlord is running a scam and that is my main motivation for wanting to pursue this further.

Assuming that I want to take this to court, which would be a better course of action?
1. Pay the bill and then hire an attorney to recover the money (note: as mentioned above, the amount is due Sept. 7. I probably won't have time to find and hire an attorney by then since Sept. 6 is a holiday).
2. Don't pay, and wait for the Landlord (or collection agency?) to take this to court.

Thanks!

**A: what is the status of your $400 deposit? Were you notified in writing previously ( after your move out) regarding the $300 deduction or only a few weeks ago notifying you of the $1600 bill?

 

[cider]

If you are truly prepared to go to court, then don't pay.

Give the landlord written notice stating that smoking was permitted, that you did not smoke to an extraordinary degree so there could not be, and were not, any smoke affects beyond that which would be considered normal wear and tear that could not have been remedied by cleaning, that any damage beyond wear and tear would have been readily apparent but was not noted at the time of the walk-through, and that you contest the charges for replacements.

Hand them a copy today and send another copy certified, return receipt requested. You may very well end up in court or in negotiations. In either case, your primary argument is that you owe nothing beyond cleaning. If the carpet and paint were not brand new when you moved in, you may also wish to argue that even if replacements were necessary, you should not be obligated to replace items that have expended a portion of their useful lives with new items. You may also want to consider trying to get statements (signed and notarized if possible) from a couple of carpet cleaning companies and/or odor elimination companies regarding the general efficacy of eliminating cigarette odors. Also, check with the library for any tenant advocacy groups in your area that can help you or, if you qualify, try getting some help from legal aid. If not, you can probably find an attorney who will, for a few dollars, call and write to the landlord stating your position and intent to defend. This may help convince the landlord it's not worth their effort to sue. You can do this even after the landlord's deadline. And, you still defend yourself in court if you want to save money.

As an anecdote, I rented a 1200 sf office to a pair of attorneys for ten years who smoked like chimneys along with their two helpers. We're talking 2 to 3 packs per day each. Walking into the office was like walking into a fog bank and, as a non-smoker, I could barely breathe. When they moved out, the office reeked. The carpet was very expensive and showed very little wear. I had the carpet steam cleaned twice and color reconditioned, cleaned the blinds, replaced the HVAC filters, ventilated the rooms for a couple of days, and by the end of just one week, there was barely any odor left at all. I did repaint but not because of odor.

I think your landlord is acting outrageously. Of course, there are no guarantees in court, so you do take a chance if you decide to fight.

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[bogusme]

**A: what is the status of your $400 deposit? Were you notified in writing previously ( after your move out) regarding the $300 deduction or only a few weeks ago notifying you of the $1600 bill?

Thank you everyone for your input. I am EXTREMELY grateful!

In answer to the above questions:
As far as I know my $400 deposit is still with the LL or was spent towards the repairs. I did not receive anything in writing after the walkthrough. The $300 estimate was verbal. The $1600 bill was the first that I received anything in writing and first that I learned that there would be any charges beyond cleaning. Another note, I was not charged the full price for the carpet replacement. It was prorated. The estimate was for $1353.73 and I was charged $947.61. I was charged in full for the painting and mini blinds.

I think that I found something to buy me an extra couple of days so that I'll have time to find an attorney in my area. Per the text in California Civil Code 1950.5, the LL must provide receipts for all work and materials. I did not receive receipts for many of the items that I was charged for, and I also noted the the "receipt" for the carpet replacement is actually just a quote and not an actual receipt.

My current plan is to submit a letter to the LL today (and sending a copy via certified mail) stating that I wish to see all of the receipts and that I intend on contesting the charges through my attorney.

Is that a good plan in this case?

Thanks!

 

[HomeGuru]

Thank you everyone for your input. I am EXTREMELY grateful!

In answer to the above questions:
As far as I know my $400 deposit is still with the LL or was spent towards the repairs. I did not receive anything in writing after the walkthrough. The $300 estimate was verbal. The $1600 bill was the first that I received anything in writing and first that I learned that there would be any charges beyond cleaning. Another note, I was not charged the full price for the carpet replacement. It was prorated. The estimate was for $1353.73 and I was charged $947.61. I was charged in full for the painting and mini blinds.

I think that I found something to buy me an extra couple of days so that I'll have time to find an attorney in my area. Per the text in California Civil Code 1950.5, the LL must provide receipts for all work and materials. I did not receive receipts for many of the items that I was charged for, and I also noted the the "receipt" for the carpet replacement is actually just a quote and not an actual receipt.

My current plan is to submit a letter to the LL today (and sending a copy via certified mail) stating that I wish to see all of the receipts and that I intend on contesting the charges through my attorney.

Is that a good plan in this case?

Thanks!

**A: guess what, L owes you the entire deposit and more if you sue him? Read a little more of the L/T law and you will find out why? Hint: L was required to either refund your deposit or notify you in writing within a certain time frame regarding the disposition of your security deposit. Your homework is to find out the answers and report back here.

 

[JETX]

**A: guess what, L owes you the entire deposit and more if you sue him? Read a little more of the L/T law and you will find out why? Hint: L was required to either refund your deposit or notify you in writing within a certain time frame regarding the disposition of your security deposit. Your homework is to find out the answers and report back here.

More accurately, the Security Refund laws.

For more on them, go to: http://www.dca.ca.gov/legal/landlordbook/sec-deposit.htm

 

[HomeGuru]

I live in the state of Oregon. and I am a smoker. I have renter a house for the last five years. I had a one year lease the first year. I never signed a renewal lease, I don't know if this makes any differences in this case, but just thought I would mention it.

Upon moving in I did the check list and turned it in to the Property Management. There were things that needed fixed, that were not. Every year they did an inspection and noted the same repairs that needed to be done. Not once in five years did these repairs get fixed. This is memtioned to let you know that the Property Management were in my home for the inspections. I became friends with the landlord, who had been in my home many, many times, and the most recent was in April of this year 2004. Not once did they mention the smell of cig. smoke. Always now nice my house looked.

She came to look at some painting and wallpaper we did, and paid of for the cost of material. We also replaced the kitchen tile. The landlord was very well pleased. Very time she was at our house, she commented on how nice we have keep her house, that she never had to worry about it.

I am anal when it comes to house cleaning, beings I am a smoker, I wash every wall and all woodwork every three months and paint every two years. My husband and I painted the whole interior in Apirl, expect for the ceilings in the dinning, living room. Whenever, we did anything, we always got permission from the landlord. So she knew that we had just painted every room, and also saw the job and aproved. She also knows that I always wash wall down with bleach, she has came over went I was doing these on separate occassions.

We decided to move into a smaller apartment and started cleaning the entire house and gave our notice on the first of Sept that we would be moving on the first of Oct. There wasn't a crook or cranny that wasn't cleaned twice. My husband shampooed the carpet, washed down the exterior of the home, their wasn't any dust anywhere. Windows were cleaned, light bulbs. walls washed, woodwork.

We took down all the old drapes that were in the house and stored them in a plastic bag, and put up mini blinds, cheaps one that cost me little over $100 for 5windows and patio. I put up fancy window treatments. All these I left because my new place didn't need them.

I was expecting to get our deposit back. $750. Their was a cleaning non-refundable deposit of $200.00. I was confident that I would get back our deposit. I loved that house. We moved out a little early and they had a For Rent sign up the every next day we moved and had pictures on their website with a virtual tour. The pictures looked really good. It made me feel proud to leave a rental of five years and see pictures on a website with in days.

We were to get the deposit back in 30 days. I was shocked to death when I got the letter, I thought was a check. Instead it was a bill for $3133.58 less deposits of $950 = $2183.58

Repainting due to smoke smell = $2500.00
Excess cleaning = $ 200.00
Blind Cleaning = $ 47.36
Maintenance repairs = $ 50.00
Blind Replacement = $ 51.35

10% of repair cost for
supervision = $ 284.87

I have friends who live next door and tell me the house is in the same addition as I left it, expect they came in and shampooed the carpet, they did not paint. The walls are still the same color I painted them. What they are going to paint after they shampoo carpet? No blinds were taking down, my friend says these things did not happen. What about the website pictures winthin days of moving, same paint job. My curtains and blinds on windows.

What can I do about this?

**A: first you can post a new thread rather than hijacking someone else's.

 

[JETX]

What can I do about this?

The FIRST thing you need to do is to start your own thread. Making your post onto someone elses thread (called 'hijacking') is both rude to the original poster and diverts attention from his 'issue' to yours. Further, it is confusing as you could believe a response is to you when it is intended for the original post.

I suggest you DELETE your thread (click on 'edit' and then check the delete mark and click on delete), then put your post in a new thread all your own.