Extra Tenants Without LL Permission

[Lynn63]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TX

I've recently posted regarding our rental home that had extensive damage done by former tenants. We now have new problems with our current tenants. They signed a 1 year lease last year and the lease expires Feb. 1, 2011 and will go to a month to month tenancy. They submitted the rent on time ONE time last year....every other month, there was a sad song that it needed to be late. The last straw was in Dec. when they wrote a hot check that bounced. Allowing for a 30 day notice, we mailed them a certified letter (along with an Intent To Vacate Notice) stating that the rent has increased, the late fee has increased, and that all rents will be payable via money orders or cashiers check from here out.

Tenants ~ The current lease states 3 are to be occupants, however, since they had a teenage son in high school move in, we made an amendment to the lease to include 4 occupants. 2 adults and 2 children under 18. We also informed them in the letter that any additional tenants would be charged 10% of the rent per person.

Looking back at emails from last year dated Jan.6, 2010, the woman stated that she had 3 children, but her oldest two were ages 19 and 20 and "were on their own", so it would just be her and her fiance' and 14 year old daughter. Today we received a certified letter in the mail stating that Feb. 1st, we will be receiving a money order for the rent and "formally requesting written permission for their sons, ages 19 and 20, to reside there in the home" with them. OK...did they not have a birthday? My math tells me they are 20 and 21, and from photos I've seen on the web from their wedding last Fall, the oldest had a wife and baby. It's difficult to know just how we should handle this (we're pretty green at being LL's). They do keep the place cleaner than anyone that's lived there even though collecting rent has been a pain. At the same time, we don't like being lied to or taken advantage of. How would you handle this? Should we insist on 10% per son? Should we do rental apps and background checks on each? The tenant emailed last Fall saying the youngest son moved in and was supposedly in high school and had enrolled. (I took their word and didn't go back to check emails from Jan. of last year...I didn't remember his age.) Now that we've found old emails and compared the ages that they stated their sons were then (19 and 20) and compared that with what their letter stated today, we're now thinking that the oldest son has actually been living in the home with them since September of last year when they came from down to TX to their wedding...they just never left...and we're thinking the youngest isn't in school at all. How to prove that? If I called the High School in that area tomorrow, would they verify he's a student over the phone to me? I wish we were able to make a trip to TX this week before the 1st of Feb. (we live in AR), but we have a son coming home from Afghanistan this week and will be in TN for his homecoming. What are your thoughts on how you would handle this?

I guess my main questions are:
Do we have the boys do a rental app and do a background check?
Do we have the right to charge them 10% of the rent a piece?
Will the school verify the youngest being a student?

Thank you so much for your time.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[OK-LL]

Do we have the boys do a rental app and do a background check?
Do we have the right to charge them 10% of the rent a piece?
Will the school verify the youngest being a student?

Do a background check on everyone over 18 -- that means get copies of their id/DLs, SS cards, etc, in addition to completing your regular application form.

On a M2M rental, you may change the rent amount with 30 days notice and unless it is limited by state or local law, there is no limit on how much you can increase the rent. You may want to consider the extra wear & tear on the rental that doubling the occupancy will cause.

You'll discover the answer to your 3rd question when you call the school.

In your shoes, I would sit down with the original tenant couple (parents) and ask a few hard questions, with their emails or original application in front of me. Any lies or incomplete information would merit a 30-day notice of termination, in my opinion, particularly in light of how difficult it is to collect the rent in full and on time.

 

[Lynn63]

Do a background check on everyone over 18 -- that means get copies of their id/DLs, SS cards, etc, in addition to completing your regular application form.

On a M2M rental, you may change the rent amount with 30 days notice and unless it is limited by state or local law, there is no limit on how much you can increase the rent. You may want to consider the extra wear & tear on the rental that doubling the occupancy will cause.

You'll discover the answer to your 3rd question when you call the school.

In your shoes, I would sit down with the original tenant couple (parents) and ask a few hard questions, with their emails or original application in front of me. Any lies or incomplete information would merit a 30-day notice of termination, in my opinion, particularly in light of how difficult it is to collect the rent in full and on time.

Thank you for your insight OK-LL. I called the school to verify whether or not the "boy" was a student. No he wasn't. We've back tracked through the emails and are finding inconsistent stories. The deception has caught up with them. So basically, they have broken the lease agreement by having these 2 young men move in (with a wife/baby in tow) without our consent. We're putting the puzzle together and assume that these boys are actually paying THEM rent to reduce theirs. At this point, we'd like them out of our home for the lies, deception, and default. As stated, Feb. 1st the 1 year lease will be up and it automatically goes to a M2M.

We've never evicted. What form do we use since it's not from unpaid rent? Do we need to states reasons on it, or can we just list "breach of contract"? And should we give this 30 day notice before Feb. 1st, or can we deal with the matter after the 1st and accept Feb. rent? (since they'll have 30 days to leave). Also, is it within our rights to contact prospective tenants who have been inquiring about the home's availability for the past year so that we can send a rental application to them and begin that process? Thank you so much for your time and patience. I promise you, I'm learning a lot and will remember this time for future reference!

 

[atomizer]

You will probably have quite a mess in your hands. I would not show the property untill they have left and you have cleaned up. Give them notice and get ready for a fight.

 

[Lynn63]

You will probably have quite a mess in your hands. I would not show the property untill they have left and you have cleaned up. Give them notice and get ready for a fight.

I've just had a LL from another forum tell me that we simply need to send a letter stating that we've decided not to continue on a month to month basis, but that the contract will end on Feb 28th (and letting them know Feb. rent is still due). They stated that we didn't have to give an explanation, that it wasn't an eviction, but only a decision to terminate the contract and not go to a month to month contract. Does this sound right? I'm relieved if so, and a certified letter to this effect will be in the mail tomorrow giving them their 30 day notice.

 

[applecruncher]

Why are you coming here to grin and share what someone from another forum said? You have no idea whether the person is really a LL or whether their advice is valid. But, by all means, go with it.

 

[Lynn63]

Why are you coming here to grin and share what someone from another forum said? You have no idea whether the person is really a LL or whether their advice is valid. But, by all means, go with it.

You sound like a disgruntled tenant to me. Not to mention a childish sounding one. Did you not see that I posted what was said to me, but then ASKED if that sounded right? Please do not post if you don't have anything intelligent to say or ask.

 

[CreativeBlock]

You sound like a disgruntled tenant to me. Not to mention a childish sounding one. Did you not see that I posted what was said to me, but then ASKED if that sounded right? Please do not post if you don't have anything intelligent to say or ask.

Actually, I believe s/he is a LL him/herself (apologies for not knowing your gender, Applecruncher).

The people here take legal matters ~ and the proper way of going about things ~ VERY seriously. Other forums ... not so much. The forum you mention may very well be one of those such forums.

Too, it's a bit annoying to know that posters are seeking answers elsewhere as it often muddies the waters and makes one's efforts seem ... superfluous.

 

[Lynn63]

Actually, I believe s/he is a LL him/herself (apologies for not knowing your gender, Applecruncher).

The people here take legal matters ~ and the proper way of going about things ~ VERY seriously. Other forums ... not so much. The forum you mention may very well be one of those such forums.

Too, it's a bit annoying to know that posters are seeking answers elsewhere as it often muddies the waters and makes one's efforts seem ... superfluous.

Well, this LL takes legal matters very seriously as well...hence the reason for being here to seek advice on what can be done legally in this situation. The other forum was a landlord site, and I studied the post there as I've been doing here. I have just as much reason to believe that the one that posted to me was an actual LL as I believe anyone here is. And why wouldn't I want to seek as much advice as possible to compare notes? If a Dr. said you needed surgery, do you not want to get a 2nd and even 3rd opinion before doing something that's life altering? That just recently happened to my adult daughter btw...Dr. scheduled surgery, but a 2nd opinion from another found that she didn't need it. She received treatment this past month and now all is well. The other would have scarred her for life. Get the jest? I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence, however, I would be the fool to not try to get the most accurate answers that I can, especially when I need answers in a hurry and the post isn't moving...so yes...I will visit another LL forum that I found just today, and see now that it's where I really need to be. Best wishes and I do appreciate Banned_Princess and those who have been helpful to me.

 

[atomizer]

Yes other poster at diff website was correct. You can give 30 day notice if they are m2m or you can choose not to renew. This does not mean that they will refuse to leave and you may still have to evict.

 

[Banned_Princess]

Aww, thank you.

It is true that all you need to do is give them 30 day notice that you would like them to vacate, but if they dont... Marches rent is being raised to whatever, and that you will file for a holdover eviction at that time.

If you don't want them to be jerks, and hold out without paying their rent until you get the sheriff in there I would just give them ample time, and don't spring it on them... AND don't tell them its about the son's just don't tell them any reason. If they demand a reason, just tell them that your certificate of occupancy only allows whatever, and they have exceeded the limit.

Something so they feel like its not their fault, and its not against them. you don't want them to take it personally, and personally run your place to the ground over "principal"

( I believe you cannot restrict the family living together, but that might just be some places. I haven't gone over Texas' rules recently lol)

Always happy to be of service

 

[applecruncher]

You sound like a disgruntled tenant to me. Not to mention a childish sounding one. Did you not see that I posted what was said to me, but then ASKED if that sounded right? Please do not post if you don't have anything intelligent to say or ask.

Funny, usually I'm accused of being a landlord (but that's usually by tenants who come here just wanting everyone to take their side and give them a hug.) By the way, you sound like a squawking harpy who hasn't been making the most intelligent decisions.

Actually, I believe s/he is a LL him/herself (apologies for not knowing your gender, Applecruncher).

Nope, she's not a landlord. And she's a deliriously happy tenant.

 

[Lynn63]

Funny, usually I'm accused of being a landlord (but that's usually by tenants who come here just wanting everyone to take their side and give them a hug.) By the way, you sound like a squawking harpy who hasn't been making the most intelligent decisions.

Nope, she's not a landlord. And she's a deliriously happy tenant.

@ applecruncher ~ Tenant...yeah, I thought so by the nerve it hit. As far as not making "the most intelligent decisions", one can only go by the information given at the time. Unfortunately, most tenants are irresponsible, deceptive, people with bad credit (the reason most rent instead of own)...and it's up to landlords to choose the "lesser of the evils" when running background checks, because I guarandogteeya, most have poor credit, poor references, and would never take decent care of a dwelling that they don't have personally possession or interest in. Take the 10K in damages from the tenants prior to these..."nice professional" couple w/2 grown sons and owners of a franchise restaurant. Sounds perfect? The nastiest dern people I've ever witnessed in my life...and I've made a living as a Disability Rep making home visits. You never know what's going to happen until tenants are in a home for a bit. Glad you're happy and hope you're treating your landlord fairly by taking care of the premises, and I hope they're treating you fairly in return. I would advise that if you don't care for my "harping", please skip right over any post created by me and you'll be spared, because there are plenty LL in our shoes who go through similar circumstances (just notice the amount of views to this post).

@ Banned_Princess & atomizer ~ I appreciate your confirmation that the info was correct. In typing a letter, I don't think I could give the reason of our "certificate of occupancy" being over since the home is a single residence home in the country. And, it's a 5 bdrm brick, so the amount of people in there "fit"...but we just don't want to deal with the headaches of them for another year. We've been extremely (probably too) gracious for them this last year. The home, which can draw $1600 was reduced to $1050 last year...we bought a storage shed since they had a horse and needed a place to store feed. Hell...we helped them unload their truck and trailer when they moved in last year from out of state since they didn't know anyone...and had hot pizza waiting for them. So...when we sent the notice in Dec. that the rent and late fee were being increased and that the rent needed to be paid via money order/cashier check, they were not happy (she removed me from FB). Yet they know they can't find as nice of a place for the price or the land to ride their horse (I've gotten permission from my parent to allow her to ride on 200 acres). SO...All that said, I'm feeling that if I word their 30 day notice to say that we no longer want to rent M2M, they'll bring up signing another lease! *sigh*. I know they won't be happy no matter how it's stated. Just trying to find the best, and polite response, because we're almost sure to receive a call (even though they wouldn't return one last night!). Thanks....guess we'll wing through it somehow. Hard to concentrate thinking about that soldier of ours being in 8 below temps before he flies the friendly skies home!

 

[Banned_Princess]

Well, its up to you what you want to do with this. All in all, its your property, and your right, there may never be "the perfect tenant" but its your prerogative to find out or not.

If I were you... (because it really seems like a target place to be renting, I don't really know what the demand for rental farms are in that area) I would just increase the rent with the 30 day notice, and if they don't pay it, then worry about evicting them, easier because it will be for non payment as opposed to a regular holdover...

Here is the Texas law of being a landlord and tenant.

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/tenants.shtml

I urge you to read it, understand it, apply it. (note the lock out possibility with a lease.. hint hint)

 

[applecruncher]

@ applecruncher ~ Tenant...yeah, I thought so by the nerve it hit

Please . . .don't flatter yourself. You have to do a lot better than that to even come close to hitting any of my nerves. And enough with the mini-novels. Focus on your issues - not my nerves. Oh, by the way, I see you've been stalking & poking around looking at my profile, so guess YOU are the one who got riled up.