Landlord is charging outrageous fee

[Jax2015]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
Los Angeles, CA

PLEASE HELP ME! I'm reaching out today because I'm hoping I can receive your advise and help on a pressing issue. Currently my girlfriend is being charged $3,897.71 by her landlord because apparently she has seen me spend too much time at her apartment and for having "violated" her contract.

In it, it states: 5. OCCUPANTS: Guest(s) staying over 14 days cumulative or longer during any 12-month period, without the OWNER'S written consent, shall be considered a breach of this agreement. ONLY the following listed individuals and/or animals, AND NO OTHERS shall occupy the subject apartment for more than 14 days unless the expressed written consent of OWNER is obtained in advance, (the 14 day period may be extended by local Rent Control Laws): ONLY THOSE LISTED ABOVE__________________. RESIDENT shall pay additional rent at the rate of $100.00 per month or 25% of the current monthly rent; whichever amount is greater, for the period of time that each additional guest in excess of the above name shall occupy the premises. RESIDENT shall pay the same additional monthly rent for each additional animal in excess of the above named animal(s), which shall occupy the premises. Acceptance of additional rent or approval of a guest shall not waive any requirement of this agreement or convert the status of any "guest" into a RESIDENT.

I'll be honest and say that I have spent time over at her apartment but my concern was more on the manner in which the landlord implemented the fine. Upon summoning my girlfriend to her office, the landlord told her that I could no longer spend time at her apartment. She told us that at first she had given us the benefit of the doubt thinking that I wouldn't be around as often, but now she decided to bring it up. My girlfriend explained to her that I was not living with her. I'm mostly around to help her out, drive her to meetings or classes and to help her take care of her dog when she's out. The landlord said that she understood and understood that its "nice to have someone to cuddle with at night, but I've seen him around too many times."

Our concern is that she never gave us a formal warning nor did she bother to fine us on a monthly bases like the contract states. At first she said she was "considerate" enough to charge us $100 per month since January (which accounts for the $500 fine). This was last weekend on Friday May 30, 2014. However, now she's saying that I didn't "move out" (even though I have my own place and am paying rent at the g-spot) and is charging my girlfriend $650 for every month since January. The total comes out to $3,897.71.

Honestly, I don't feel like this is fair. Just because I stay over doesn't mean I live there. Right? And to be completely honest I don't have the money to pay this outrageous fine. So this is why I'm to reaching out to you and asking for your help. My back's against the wall and I don't know who to turn to. Please let me know if you can help me. I'd truly appreciate anything you could do.

 

[Nellibelle]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
Los Angeles, CA

PLEASE HELP ME! I'm reaching out today because I'm hoping I can receive your advise and help on a pressing issue. Currently my girlfriend is being charged $3,897.71 by her landlord because apparently she has seen me spend too much time at her apartment and for having "violated" her contract.

In it, it states: 5. OCCUPANTS: Guest(s) staying over 14 days cumulative or longer during any 12-month period, without the OWNER'S written consent, shall be considered a breach of this agreement. ONLY the following listed individuals and/or animals, AND NO OTHERS shall occupy the subject apartment for more than 14 days unless the expressed written consent of OWNER is obtained in advance, (the 14 day period may be extended by local Rent Control Laws): ONLY THOSE LISTED ABOVE__________________. RESIDENT shall pay additional rent at the rate of $100.00 per month or 25% of the current monthly rent; whichever amount is greater, for the period of time that each additional guest in excess of the above name shall occupy the premises. RESIDENT shall pay the same additional monthly rent for each additional animal in excess of the above named animal(s), which shall occupy the premises. Acceptance of additional rent or approval of a guest shall not waive any requirement of this agreement or convert the status of any "guest" into a RESIDENT.

I'll be honest and say that I have spent time over at her apartment but my concern was more on the manner in which the landlord implemented the fine. Upon summoning my girlfriend to her office, the landlord told her that I could no longer spend time at her apartment. She told us that at first she had given us the benefit of the doubt thinking that I wouldn't be around as often, but now she decided to bring it up. My girlfriend explained to her that I was not living with her. I'm mostly around to help her out, drive her to meetings or classes and to help her take care of her dog when she's out. The landlord said that she understood and understood that its "nice to have someone to cuddle with at night, but I've seen him around too many times."

Our concern is that she never gave us a formal warning nor did she bother to fine us on a monthly bases like the contract states. At first she said she was "considerate" enough to charge us $100 per month since January (which accounts for the $500 fine). This was last weekend on Friday May 30, 2014. However, now she's saying that I didn't "move out" (even though I have my own place and am paying rent at the g-spot) and is charging my girlfriend $650 for every month since January. The total comes out to $3,897.71.

Honestly, I don't feel like this is fair. Just because I stay over doesn't mean I live there. Right? And to be completely honest I don't have the money to pay this outrageous fine. So this is why I'm to reaching out to you and asking for your help. My back's against the wall and I don't know who to turn to. Please let me know if you can help me. I'd truly appreciate anything you could do.

If you didn't stay over for 14 days cumulative for any 12 month period your gf lived there, then the LL has no cause to charge you anything regarding a breach of the rental agreement! If the LL cannot prove you spent time there in breach of the agreement, you owe nothing regarding it! The LL cannot keep you from visiting your gf whenever you want to--you just cannot stay overnight more than the allotted time the rental agreement says. It would be very hard for the LL to prevail on this issue in court.

 

[Zigner]

If you're not living there, why would you expect any type of notice?

 

[Silverplum]

Reading is good. Comprehension is better. The lease rule applies to more than 14 overnights cumulatively over a YEAR, nelli.

So, poster, did you stay 15 times or more?

Nobody cares how the fine is administered. The lease is the notice.

 

[justalayman]

It would be very hard for the LL to prevail on this issue in court.

not really. With adequate documentation, it would be a piece of cake.

and the op wouldn't owe anything regardless. His gf will.


the only arguable point, given the OP stayed there more than 14 days in 1 year, is this:

, for the period of time that each additional guest in excess of the above name shall occupy the premises.

the fine, or whatever you want to call is begins being applied when the 14 days has been met.

so, what that means is the first month within the 12 that the 14 day limit was reached is the first month the fine can be demanded to be paid for. In other words, it is not retroactive to the beginning of the lease, unless of course you stayed there more than 14 days in that first month.

 

[Gail in Georgia]

Nellibelle.. Once again, please sit down and shut up.


"Our concern is that she never gave us a formal warning nor did she bother to fine us on a monthly bases like the contract states."

She doesn't have to give "us" a formal warning. In fact, there is no "us" in any of this. The issue is clearly stated in YOUR GIRLFRIENDS lease.

' I'm mostly around to help her out, drive her to meetings or classes and to help her take care of her dog when she's out. The landlord said that she understood and understood that its "nice to have someone to cuddle with at night, but I've seen him around too many times.""

Obviously the landlord isn't buying the story that you just happen to be there every so often and seems to have proof that you're still there the next morning.

" Just because I stay over doesn't mean I live there. Right?"

The implication is that you do.

" And to be completely honest I don't have the money to pay this outrageous fine."

Not a problem. You've not the one being fined. Your girlfriend is.

And your girlfriend doesn't need to pay the fine. She may, however, find herself in the position of being evicted over breach of lease because of you.

Gail

 

[Eekamouse]

OP, ignore Nelliebelly. She thinks she knows what she's talking about but the truth is, she doesn't have any idea what the laws are. She has no desire to learn the law either but she is all gung ho about giving out legally incorrect advice.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
Los Angeles, CA

PLEASE HELP ME! I'm reaching out today because I'm hoping I can receive your advise and help on a pressing issue. Currently my girlfriend is being charged $3,897.71 by her landlord because apparently she has seen me spend too much time at her apartment and for having "violated" her contract.

In it, it states: 5. OCCUPANTS: Guest(s) staying over 14 days cumulative or longer during any 12-month period, without the OWNER'S written consent, shall be considered a breach of this agreement. ONLY the following listed individuals and/or animals, AND NO OTHERS shall occupy the subject apartment for more than 14 days unless the expressed written consent of OWNER is obtained in advance, (the 14 day period may be extended by local Rent Control Laws): ONLY THOSE LISTED ABOVE__________________. RESIDENT shall pay additional rent at the rate of $100.00 per month or 25% of the current monthly rent; whichever amount is greater, for the period of time that each additional guest in excess of the above name shall occupy the premises. RESIDENT shall pay the same additional monthly rent for each additional animal in excess of the above named animal(s), which shall occupy the premises. Acceptance of additional rent or approval of a guest shall not waive any requirement of this agreement or convert the status of any "guest" into a RESIDENT.

I'll be honest and say that I have spent time over at her apartment but my concern was more on the manner in which the landlord implemented the fine. Upon summoning my girlfriend to her office, the landlord told her that I could no longer spend time at her apartment. She told us that at first she had given us the benefit of the doubt thinking that I wouldn't be around as often, but now she decided to bring it up. My girlfriend explained to her that I was not living with her. I'm mostly around to help her out, drive her to meetings or classes and to help her take care of her dog when she's out. The landlord said that she understood and understood that its "nice to have someone to cuddle with at night, but I've seen him around too many times."

Our concern is that she never gave us a formal warning nor did she bother to fine us on a monthly bases like the contract states. At first she said she was "considerate" enough to charge us $100 per month since January (which accounts for the $500 fine). This was last weekend on Friday May 30, 2014. However, now she's saying that I didn't "move out" (even though I have my own place and am paying rent at the g-spot) and is charging my girlfriend $650 for every month since January. The total comes out to $3,897.71.

Honestly, I don't feel like this is fair. Just because I stay over doesn't mean I live there. Right? And to be completely honest I don't have the money to pay this outrageous fine. So this is why I'm to reaching out to you and asking for your help. My back's against the wall and I don't know who to turn to. Please let me know if you can help me. I'd truly appreciate anything you could do.

The lease says 100.00 a month or 25% of the current monthly rent. Is 650.00 25% of the current monthly rent?

 

[Jax2015]

The lease says 100.00 a month or 25% of the current monthly rent. Is 650.00 25% of the current monthly rent?

Yeah.

A little more on the issue:
By "US" I mean my gf and I, given that I would have to pay the fee as well. I mean I won't be a complete ******* and let her pay the fine on her own.

Earlier on in the thread it was stated that she would have to prove the fact that i stay over night...that's something I strongly feel like she won't be able to do. I mean she has cameras at the gated entrance of the apartment complex but there is also the entrance through the elevator accessed via the parking garage beneath the apartment complex (and there's no cameras there). I am always driving her car around since i don't have my own.

FYI- we are both students at UCLA

If my gf has to go to court. Could these two factors contribute to her case:

1. We have taken one or two classes together throughout the academic year and are currently in finals week so that would explain more time spent together.
2. When she adopted her dog, I signed as the co-owner and am therefore equally responsible for his well being.

I know that if she has me on camera, at least half of the time that she would have me on camera would account for the times i'm walking my go's dog.


Since my gf and I are going to go talk to the LL this week we need something concrete to tell her in order for her to rethink her position. Without sounding paranoid, I feel like she has a personal grudge towards my gf, for reasons we can't seem to figure out. Although one might be that she's a complete dog lover and her three dogs do not get along with my gf's dog (they're always barking at each other but nothing physical or violent has happened).
This apartment complex is filled with all UCLA students and honestly everyone is always staying over at there significant other's apartment.
I've asked around and so far 3 other students I know say that they have stayed over at this apartment complex just as much as I have and the LL hasn't said anything to them (one of which stays over at the apartment next door to my gf's). This is why when we go talk to the LL I don't want to be taken advantage of, since that's essentially thats what she's been doing to my gf and our situation.

 

[quincy]

Yeah.

A little more on the issue:
By "US" I mean my gf and I, given that I would have to pay the fee as well. I mean I won't be a complete ******* and let her pay the fine on her own.

Earlier on in the thread it was stated that she would have to prove the fact that i stay over night...that's something I strongly feel like she won't be able to do. I mean she has cameras at the gated entrance of the apartment complex but there is also the entrance through the elevator accessed via the parking garage beneath the apartment complex (and there's no cameras there). I am always driving her car around since i don't have my own.

FYI- we are both students at UCLA

If my gf has to go to court. Could these two factors contribute to her case:

1. We have taken one or two classes together throughout the academic year and are currently in finals week so that would explain more time spent together.
2. When she adopted her dog, I signed as the co-owner and am therefore equally responsible for his well being.

I know that if she has me on camera, at least half of the time that she would have me on camera would account for the times i'm walking my go's dog.


Since my gf and I are going to go talk to the LL this week we need something concrete to tell her in order for her to rethink her position. Without sounding paranoid, I feel like she has a personal grudge towards my gf, for reasons we can't seem to figure out. Although one might be that she's a complete dog lover and her three dogs do not get along with my gf's dog (they're always barking at each other but nothing physical or violent has happened).
This apartment complex is filled with all UCLA students and honestly everyone is always staying over at there significant other's apartment.
I've asked around and so far 3 other students I know say that they have stayed over at this apartment complex just as much as I have and the LL hasn't said anything to them (one of which stays over at the apartment next door to my gf's). This is why when we go talk to the LL I don't want to be taken advantage of, since that's essentially thats what she's been doing to my gf and our situation.

Take proof with you of your own lease on your own apartment, for one thing. If the landlord knows you have another place you are paying rent on, perhaps she will be less likely to view you as an unauthorized tenant in her apartment.

I think you might run into trouble, though, if there are cameras that show ingress and egress and you ingress but you do not do a lot of egressing.

Good luck.

 

[LdiJ]

Take proof with you of your own lease on your own apartment, for one thing. If the landlord knows you have another place you are paying rent on, perhaps she will be less likely to view you as an unauthorized tenant in her apartment.

I think you might run into trouble, though, if there are cameras that show ingress and egress and you ingress but you do not do a lot of egressing.

Good luck.

That is assuming that the complex keeps the tapes and that someone is wiling to take the time to go through potentially thousands of hours of tape to pinpoint him ingressing without egressing. Odds are that they don't keep the tapes more than a short amount of time.

 

[quincy]

That is assuming that the complex keeps the tapes and that someone is wiling to take the time to go through potentially thousands of hours of tape to pinpoint him ingressing without egressing. Odds are that they don't keep the tapes more than a short amount of time.

That's true.

I guess Jax can hope there is not enough footage preserved to support the landlord's claim that he has spent 14 days cumulative or longer at the rental (and that the landlord does not have anything else to support the additional rent).

 

[LdiJ]

That's true.

I guess Jax can hope there is not enough footage preserved to support the landlord's claim that he has spent 14 days cumulative or longer at the rental (and that the landlord does not have anything else to support the additional rent).

I do think that this sounds a little bit like "selective" enforcement on the landlord's part. An apartment complex filled with college students and just one couple gets selected for enforcement???

 

[TheGeekess]

That is assuming that the complex keeps the tapes and that someone is wiling to take the time to go through potentially thousands of hours of tape to pinpoint him ingressing without egressing. Odds are that they don't keep the tapes more than a short amount of time.

There are very few VCR/tape systems out there on security camera systems. For the most part, they have been replaced with DVRs (digital video recorders) that use HDDs (hard disk drives-like in a PC). The question becomes how much HDD space does the DVR have and how long until it starts recording over older video? (As far as searching: easy enough. You search time and date rather easily.)

 

[quincy]

I do think that this sounds a little bit like "selective" enforcement on the landlord's part. An apartment complex filled with college students and just one couple gets selected for enforcement???

I suppose there could be a reason for the selection that only the landlord knows.

Maybe Jax should see if his apartment's lease has the same clause in it. If not, then his girlfriend and their dog could always spend time at his place.