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  1. #1
    dookydaddy is offline Junior Member
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    landlord issue/wants to raise my rent

    What is the name of your state? pennsylvania

    my landlord wants to raise my rent due to the fact i have a family memeber staying with me temporarily. i am renting a 3 bedroom rancher and it's only my wife, my dog and me. my brother in law who is in college close to my home, comes to stay with us evry weekend in the 2nd of the 3 bedrooms in the house. the problem: my landlord lives right next door to me and she is saying that she wants extra monies for rent because we have another adult in the house. i'm paying $1350 now and there is no clause in my lease that says that my rent would be higher if another person is in the home. my rent started out at $1350, that is the agreed amount. my problem is that, my wife is pregnant and when our child is born, can she charge us for the baby too? if she didn't live next door, she wouldn't even know. she said the extra money is for utilities and the such. he is only here 2days a week! do i have any legal ground?

    posted this in another thread...sorry, i'm new to the forum
    Last edited by dookydaddy; 01-28-2008 at 05:52 PM. Reason: posted in wrong thread
  2. #2
    FarmerJ is offline Senior Member
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    Dook you like living where you do ? First off if your LL didnt list or define guest visit restrictions in the lease Expect them to at renewal. Second 2 days a week is alot , if your lease has not defined guest visits your LL still could try to bring you into court claiming you broke the lease and a judge might agree with the LL. Your LL could choose to wait until the lease is due to be renewed and refuse to renew it or up the rent or change the terms at that time. As far as being a parent soon , your LL couldnt use a claim of a child as reason to raise the rent , but if your LL waits til renewal time they still can raise the rent. Your best shot is to negotiate with the LL and get it in writting as to how much more you would have to pay to get written consent to have the extra adult there. , you never did say if your LL is paying the water /sewer bill , yes a adult uses more water and creates more wear and tear than a infant.
  3. #3
    OHlandlord is offline Member
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    When the LL prepares to decide on the rent amount for a unit, he has to calculate what he thinks the utilities will be if they are included in the rent. One of the ways he does this is from prior history of utility bills, another factor is how many tenants he expects to live in the unit. He rented the unit to 2 people (with one more expected?), so he may have calculated the rent based on his expectation of the utilities being a certain level now and in the future. (Does your lease say the premises are to be occupied by 2 adults?)

    Now you have another relative staying with you every weekend (104 days / yr = more than 28% of the time). 3 adults are staying there over 28% of the time, not 2. His water and/or electric bill have both gone up by 28% since there is an extra person bathing, flushing, washing hands, doing laundry, watching TV, playing music/video games, and so forth. Not to mention the extra wear and tear on the unit from electric and plumbing fixtures, doors, switches, etc. being used that many more times, the carpet being travelled more often, appliances used more often, etc. 28% on all of that is a lot as FarmerJ said. An infant doesn't take showers, flip on electric appliances, or watch TV. Other than the extra laundry, the infant uses little or no extra utilities.

    You can be sure your rent will increase at the end of the lease or he will refuse to renew for this extra person and you will have to move. I would negotiate as FarmerJ said and get the extra person approved with the LL now. Having an unauthorized occupant there that often, especially if your lease says occupancy by 2 adults, may be a violation of your lease. Most leases allow only a couple days a month or a dozen or so days per lease term for overnight guest visits. I believe judges around here would think you were in violation. I can't tell you how judges would rule there. Every weekend is a lot.
  4. #4
    dookydaddy is offline Junior Member
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    Smile thank you for the insight

    my landlord happens to live right next door to me... the utilities covered in my lease are water, sewer and trash... my lease doesn't specify "usage" amount...my issue is this: my brother in law does not live here, i know that's neither here nor there, but, it's a convienience for him to come stay with us on the weekend then paying gas to drive to north carolina every weekend. i don't want to get into a sovereignty issue with my landlord. hatfield meats is 1/4 mile from my house, meaning the water around here is very cheap. i contacted the water company who has advised me that the water usage has not gone up, and in fact the charge for a 3 month period is $48. the sewer tax around here is based on the unit, and is incorporated in taxes per year. trash is based on pickup, not amount. i.e. if you have up to 6 garbage cans or 1, the price is the same. besides, i burn most of my trash, and only fill the provided 1 garbage can of trash per week. thank you for your assistance. i just really feel that the landlord is price gauging me just because he wants to. my relative does not live here and i will ask him not to visit on the weekend if it will keep the peace. i just don't want to get into some legal battel when it is not absolutely necessary. once again thank you for your input. the other pressing issue i have with living right next to my landlord is that i have a child by a previous relationship who comes to visit every other weekend. i'm afraid that if that issue is bought up, he would be more money motivated.. i live in a 3 bedroom rancher, with occupancy of 1 of the bedrooms. the purpose of obtaing such a large unit was expressly for my son to visit on the weekends. the price of the rental unit was advertised as a 3 bedroom unit for $1350, not a 3 bedroom unit for $1350 if only one bedroom is utilized or for an occupancy of 2.
    Last edited by dookydaddy; 01-28-2008 at 11:30 PM. Reason: additional information omitted
  5. #5
    Alaska landlord is offline Senior Member
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    You didn't say if you were a periodic renter or if you had a lease. If you don't have a lease she can give you a 30 or 90 day notice to vacate. I can't recall which since PA has a different protocol for winter evictions, and I'm too lazy to look them up. OH landlord pretty much covered the reasoning why your landlord is demanding more rent. Also pay attention to whether or not you signed a waiver of notice in your contract. If you did you did, you will not get a notice. The landlord can go to court and begin eviction without notice.
  6. #6
    OHlandlord is offline Member
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    The LL won't charge you more for a child that visits by court ordered visitation every other weekend. That child is a minor and uses little in the way of utilities. However, the BIL is an adult who IS currently living at your unit over 28% of the time. Completely different story. (The wear and tear can sometimes be even more expensive than the utilities.) He eats, sleeps, bathes there during that time. He DOES live there for those days. 104 days a year are much more than any guest limit I have ever seen in a lease. If you don't get the unauthorized occupant approved, the LL may file against you for violating the lease. I suggest negotiating with the LL for approval (perhaps at a lower rate?) When does your lease end?
  7. #7
    xylene is offline Senior Member
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    Eat it, eat,it, break youreself an egg and beat it.

    There are many rationales for why the landlord might want to raise the rent.

    BUT since they are not spelled out in the lease, the landlord gets to eat it.

    Landlord can raise rent or change terms at renewal. This is not a surprise and is a good reason to own your own residence.

    Tell the landlord to 'eat it', maybe be a bit more conciliatory.

    You are not violating the lease, and NO JUDGE would rule in the landlords favor based on the facts you present.

    Many landlords on this forum talk the talk that there is an implied right to landlord profit and lease terms that result in 'unprofitable' tenancy somehow are a lease violation.

    You are in NO way violating the allowable occupancy of a 3 bedroom house and the landlord contention that you are now obligated to pay higher rent is insane. The reality is if the landlord forced the issue the one with an EXCELLENT court case would be you.
  8. #8
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Does your lease actually name the occupants?
  9. #9
    dookydaddy is offline Junior Member
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    again i thank you for your response

    the lease does have me and my wife's name on it as occupants. i have a one year lease, that i am currently regretting today. i have been here since september 2007. there are no addendums to my lease whatsoever, in fact, the lease drawn, is general; stating address, amount of rent, late fees. i don't understand real estate law. we rented this home considering that, my wife is not working as she is expecting in june. my son from a previous relationship comes to visit every other weekend. we have a dog. our intention was to save money to purchase our own home. we are a young couple. our credit has not been established so renting through a private owner was beneficial for a number of reasons. it's frustrating money wise and professionally. i thought we were paying to use the property at a set rate, not "if we feel we can get some more money will will" i will acknowledge that it's there property they can charge what they want, but if the leasee agrees to the set price, than that's what it is. i just feel they want more money because they feel that more income in their house entitles them to more income from their house. i am a professional (I.T.) but i feel that if someone request my services for fixing their network at a set price, if they have the ability to pay more, i should charge them more! just doesn't make sense to me. wear and tear is taken out of the security deposit am i right? i mean without debating what was previously stated, a pet's wear and tear on any home would supercede any human's i would assume.? again thank the responders.
  10. #10
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xylene View Post
    There are many rationales for why the landlord might want to raise the rent. BUT since they are not spelled out in the lease, the landlord gets to eat it.
    Correct, if you change "since" to "if".
    Quote Originally Posted by xylene View Post
    You are not violating the lease, and NO JUDGE would rule in the landlords favor based on the facts you present.
    Not necessarily. If, in fact, the lease specifically lists and limits occupancy to the listed tenants (common), the "super 104 day/year guest" could very well constitute a breach of the lease, even if there is no specific guest clause. (Whether the LL would care to litigate the issue is immaterial). Your answer, therefore, is dangerously misleading.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.
  11. #11
    xylene is offline Senior Member
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    Lightbulb Read the posters question.

    The poster asks if the landlord can raise the rent. The answer is NO.

    Quote Originally Posted by You Are Guilty View Post
    Correct, if you change "since" to "if".
    No, correct period. The landlord has NO basis to demand increased rent. If the tenant is in breach of the lease the legal remedy the landlord has is a a notice to cure and then evict. The facts presented suggest no. Obviously we have not read the entire lease.

    An arbitrary rent increase. NOT.

    Not necessarily. If, in fact, the lease specifically lists and limits occupancy to the listed tenants (common), the "super 104 day/year guest" could very well constitute a breach of the lease, even if there is no specific guest clause. (Whether the LL would care to litigate the issue is immaterial). Your answer, therefore, is dangerously misleading.
    The 'guest clause' is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

    The tenants could have the guy move in and establish residency... and the landlord would HAVE no right to enforce a rent increase.

    The tenants rented a three bedroom house. They are nowhere near exceeding any occupancy limit imposed by the state or any local codes.

    If the landlord attempted to enforce the rent increase - well it wouldn't work out.

    If the regular guest is an occupant (I doubt this) than the lease would HAVE to spell out the guest / occupant restrictions for there to be a breach (as legally no occupancy restrictions are being violated), and unless the lease spelled out rent increase provisions for such occupancy changes... then the landlord's demand for increased rent is a load of steaming crap.
    Last edited by xylene; 01-29-2008 at 12:40 PM. Reason: sp
  12. #12
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xylene View Post
    The facts presented suggest no. Obviously we have not read the entire lease.
    So, despite your protestations, you're agreeing with me. Without seeing the lease, it's "possible" the LL may have recourse beyond starting eviction proceedings. Unlikely, I agree, but still possible.

    If the lease doesn't limit occupancy to specific people, or have a guest clause that triggers, or have some other catch-all, then I agree there is no basis for the LL to unilaterally raise the rent.

    (Which, if you re-read my post, is what I said the first time.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.

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