Landlord late with security deposit, claims pets ruined floors

[lsx]

PA - Landlord late with security deposit, claims pets ruined floors

PENNSYLVANIA

Hi,
I am looking for some help on an unusual situation.

As far as I understand the law in Pennsylvania, if a landlord does not provide a written list of damages to deduct from a security deposit within 30 days of the tenant vacating (or the end of the lease) they are forfeiting their right to keep any of the deposit, and I (the tenant) have the right to sue for double. I moved out of my apt on July 12th (lease expiring July 15th), and left keys in the apt. My landlord refused to do a walk-through with me prior to turning over the keys, stating "that's not how it works." She suggested I take pictures if there are any disagreements.

I lived in this apt for 3 1/2 years, and put down 3600 to move in (first/last + 1 month security, and an additional month's security for a "pet deposit" for our second pet). We gave the landlord 60 days notice as required in our lease, and used the $900 which paid up front to cover the last month (even though the rent had increased to $925). In that letter, the landlord received our new address to send the deposit back to. Although she clearly received it (since the apt was on the market a week later), she did not seem to recall receiving our address, so we gave it to her once again with the keys on July 12th. The deposit outstanding is $1800.

On Aug. 20th, I sent a certified letter to the landlord since we had not yet received any notification about damages or a return of the security deposit.
Naturally, the very next day a check arrives (dated Aug 1) and a letter (dated July 27th!) with our "damages". The envelope was postmarked August 20th. The landlord claims that we broke the terms of our lease by having a third pet, however there is nothing in our lease stating what consequences would arise from this. She also stated that the floors were "damaged" by our pets, and "not anywhere near the condition in which they were first given to you". Our lease (and the PA law as far as I understand) does not allow deductions for reasonable wear and tear. In my opinion, the place simply looked like someone lived there for 3 1/2 years and there was no significant damage to any of the floors. She deducted $800 for the floors, and also $25 to cover the difference for the last month's rent, and included a check for $975.

My question is-- do I cash the $975 check and respond back that her deductions are nullified since we did not receive the letter in time, and that we want the additional $825 sent immediately?

Which holds more water? the lease or the landlord/tenant act?

Thanks in advance

 

[Banned_Princess]

Cash the check and sue her for the rest.

I hope you have pictures.

Unless the lease states the LL can change the rent during the lease, she owes you the 25$$ you paid each month.

 

[FarmerJ]

If your former LL did nothing to notify you that the last months rent you prepaid had to be increased its reasonable to argue the LL was not entitled since any time before you moved out the LL could have with proper notice had you send the increase to be added to your last months rent . SO to take it now is now fair. The rest of the amount you dispute can be settled via small claims court where you can show the court your proofs of how you left the unit and ask to see the LLs proofs as well as more details like asking to know exactly what the 800 for flooring damage entailed, Sanding - refinishing? sealing bare wood and just re carpeting ? and which rooms etc , how much of it was depreciated . BTW just so you know if it was hardwood flooring and it was scratched alot that is not normal wear and tear and if poochie or kitty peed on the wood flooring its a lot of work to get animal urine odors out because its gonna be in padding , and if its plywood flooring then about the only way to get it out is replacing the plywood , if its hardwood then its alot of work to sand and seal.

 

[lsx]

Cash the check and sue her for the rest.

I hope you have pictures.

Unless the lease states the LL can change the rent during the lease, she owes you the 25$$ you paid each month.

Thanks for the reply.
We do have pictures (more video than pictures probably) of the floors.

the lease does state that the modifications to the terms can be made as long as 2 weeks notice is given, and we did receive 30+ days notice on the rent increase, however the increase for the last month which was prepaid just seems petty.

 

[lsx]

If your former LL did nothing to notify you that the last months rent you prepaid had to be increased its reasonable to argue the LL was not entitled since any time before you moved out the LL could have with proper notice had you send the increase to be added to your last months rent . SO to take it now is now fair. The rest of the amount you dispute can be settled via small claims court where you can show the court your proofs of how you left the unit and ask to see the LLs proofs as well as more details like asking to know exactly what the 800 for flooring damage entailed, Sanding - refinishing? sealing bare wood and just re carpeting ? and which rooms etc , how much of it was depreciated . BTW just so you know if it was hardwood flooring and it was scratched alot that is not normal wear and tear and if poochie or kitty peed on the wood flooring its a lot of work to get animal urine odors out because its gonna be in padding , and if its plywood flooring then about the only way to get it out is replacing the plywood , if its hardwood then its alot of work to sand and seal.

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you about the $25-- while its not a ton of $$, it just seems odd that she would deduct it that way without making any previous mention of it.
Any marks on the floor were not the result of the cats scratching on it; and they never actually peed on the floor either. The most visible markings are from where our couch was for 3+ years. In the letter we received, she said the $800 would be for a refinishing of the floor and "replacing of some boards in the living room and main bedroom".

That being said, I'm still curious if any of that even matters since the PA law states this letter MUST be received within 30 days of vacating the premises (which was technically July 12th), or the landlord forfeits the right to use any of the security. As I understand it, I can ask for the full amount, or sue for double, but if I sue for double, the landlord would be allowed to take the deductions. Has anyone in PA done this or know about this?

 

[Banned_Princess]

I think you have nothing to loose if you sue for double.

Personally I would.

 

[lsx]

I think you have nothing to loose if you sue for double.

Personally I would.

The terminology is a little fuzzy on the PA law as to whether or not it would be double the original security ($1800x2=3600-825=2775) or double the amount exceeding the damages ($975x2=1950).

However if we do not attempt to go for double, the landlord would not be able to claim any damages and the case should be open and shut.

My concern is she feels we broke the lease by adding a 3rd pet towards the end of our tenancy. The only terminology around ramifications of breaking the lease say that we would be subject to termination of the lease and/or eviction. Can she do anything at this stage since we are already moved out (i.e., try and void our attempt to get the remainder of the security back, bringing this point up in court)?

 

[Andy0192]

She will look petty trying to bring that up in court.

If she thought you had a 3rd pet and had violated your lease terms, she should have provided you with written notice of the breach.

Note: I'm not an attorney, I'm a PA Landlord, but I see a few potential trouble areas with your Landlord's treatment of the Security Deposit, and the amount. Generally speaking, PA should be 1 month's security, if your lease term is longer than 1 year. I've never really run up against separate pet deposits, because I simply won't allow pets, so my experience w/ that is limited.

Section 250.511a. Escrow funds limited
(a) No landlord may require a sum in excess of two months’ rent to be deposited in escrow for the payment of damages to the leasehold premises and/or default in rent thereof during the first year of any lease.
(b) During the second and subsequent years of the lease or during any renewal of the original lease the amount require to be deposited may not exceed one month’s rent.
(c) If, during the third or subsequent year of a lease, or during any renewal after the expiration of two years of tenancy, the landlord requires the one month’s rent escrow provided herein, upon termination of the lease, or on surrender and acceptance of the leasehold premises, the escrow funds together with interest shall be returned to the tenant in accordance with sections 511.2 and 5127.
(d) Whenever a tenant has been in possession of premises for a period of five years or greater, any increase or increases in rent shall not require a concomitant increase in any security deposit.
(e) This section applies only to the rental of residential property.
(f) Any attempted waiver of this section by a tenant by a contract or otherwise shall be void and unenforceable.
8 68 P.S. §250.511e.

Here's the link to PA's law regarding Security Deposits:

Pennsylvania Security Deposit Law

Any landlord who fails to provide a written list within thirty days as required in subsection (a), above, shall forfeit all rights to withhold any portion of sums held in escrow, including any unpaid interest thereon, or to bring suit against the tenant for damages to the leasehold premises.

 

[lsx]

She will look petty trying to bring that up in court.

If she thought you had a 3rd pet and had violated your lease terms, she should have provided you with written notice of the breach.

Note: I'm not an attorney, I'm a PA Landlord, but I see a few potential trouble areas with your Landlord's treatment of the Security Deposit, and the amount. Generally speaking, PA should be 1 month's security, if your lease term is longer than 1 year. I've never really run up against separate pet deposits, because I simply won't allow pets, so my experience w/ that is limited.

Ok thanks.
Regarding the interest piece-- I was fuzzy on that, since the lease does state that the deposit will be held without interest. Does the state law override that?

The one-month security bit was not something I was aware of until I started doing research on this subject as we were moving out. Would have been nice if I knew that earlier!

 

[FarmerJ]

Made a mistake earlier I think LL is not being fair and when I said SO to take it now is now fair. I forgot to add the UN. Still its worth letting the court decide about the floor repair job but from now on with couches or other furn on wood flooring use them rubber blocks to set furniture on since you know the couch caused some marks. your free to add the penalty amount into the filing too and let the court decide that as well.

 

[Andy0192]

Ok thanks.
Regarding the interest piece-- I was fuzzy on that, since the lease does state that the deposit will be held without interest. Does the state law override that?

The one-month security bit was not something I was aware of until I started doing research on this subject as we were moving out. Would have been nice if I knew that earlier!

Pennsylvania is a little strange, because certain items can be waived, if they are specifically waived in writing. Certain parts of the law cannot be waived, and the LL/T Act specifically states those items. The LL/T Act says the deposit should be held as escrow in a bank account, but the account doesn't have to be interest bearing, and even if it is, the LL can deduct a reasonable administrative expense of one percent per year.

There's nothing wrong with holding the deposit in a non-interest bearing account, according to the law. However, the deposit is supposed to be put into an escrow account at a bank or approved financial institution. The Landlord isn't supposed to just stuff it under a mattress.

The biggest issue I think the Landlord is facing is that they failed to deliver you notice within 30 days with an itemized listing for any repairs or deductions. That is what opens up the door for double damages. Had they delivered the proper notice, but failed to return your desposit in a timely manner, they could argue for a partial claim, and argue for damages.

Beginning with the second year of a lease, a landlord cannot retain a security deposit of more than one month's rent. Any security deposit greater than $100 held by a landlord must be placed in a bank in escrow.

After taking out damages and unpaid rent, a landlord or property owner must send its tenants the list of damages and/or the full or partial security deposit no later than 30 days after the lease ends or when the landlord accepts the tentants' keys to vacate the premises early, whichever occurs first. The law requires landlords to pay twice the amount of the security deposit if they fail to provide consumers with the list of damages along with any refund due

 

[lsx]

follow up..
I was in court today (finally) and the judge ruled in my favor.
Thank you to those who gave advice. I decided to just sue for the outstanding amount (825) + court fees, instead of double.
My claim was very specific and targeted only to the fact that we did not receive the list of deductions within 30 days, according to the law. I figured this would be an easier case.
The landlord tried to make excuses about why she took the deductions, (pets, smoking, trouble getting into the apartment, etc), wanted to show the judge pictures of the floors and then started making stuff up about why it was late. The judge continually cut her off stating that none of that mattered, since I had a postmarked letter showing when we received the letter and the partial deposit back. When he asked her when we moved out, she said she didn't know. (Funny--I could have sworn we both just took the oath). The whole thing was a debacle on her part because she just couldn't seem to grasp the concept that she had sent the list of deductions late.

She is claiming she is going to appeal -- is there anything she can really do here? She has no good reason why the letter was not sent within the 30 days.

 

[inuyashian]

I would laugh at her appeal. It's obvious she has a lot to learn about court procedures and couldn't fight her way out of a paper sack. Excuses don't hold up in court or obvious lies.

 

[Gail in Georgia]

Pennsylvania does allow someone to appeal a case lost in small claims (this would be heard in another court). Filing must be done within 30 days.

Pennsylvania Small Claims Court Information

Gail

 

[lsx]

Pennsylvania does allow someone to appeal a case lost in small claims (this would be heard in another court). Filing must be done within 30 days.

Pennsylvania Small Claims Court Information

Gail

Right -- just curious if the judge in the appeal case would likely rule the same as the initial judge. I have evidence of all the things I need on my side:
-letter indicating we intend to vacate in 60 days and a copy of the check that was included in that letter
-letter from date we vacated -- both of which had our new address --
-letter after 40 days had passed saying we did not receive the deposit
-Her postmarked letter which arrived 41 days late
-and a 4th letter asking for the remainder of the deposit within 14 days to avoid going to court.

All she had to say as to why she was late was "I don't know when they moved out". not much of a case if you ask me, but I don't want to get ****y.