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  1. #1
    babybuggs is offline Member
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    Cool Lessee vs. Licensee (The case of the roommate)

    What is the name of your state? GA

    Both me and vacation home are located in Georgia. I'm letting a room to 1-2 people (each with their own room) in my furnished vacation home, and would like to get some insight on whether it is legal to include the following in my agreement:

    "II. The length of lodging shall be from May 10, 2008 to August 10, 2008. After such time, tenancy shall be at-will, on a week-to-week basis. The resident-owner [that would be me] shall have the right to terminate lodging for any default of roommate excepting non-payment of weekly fees by providing 7-days oral or written notice to roommate(s). Termination of lodging for any other reason shall require fourteen (14) days advance written notice from all parties."

    1.The fees are due on a weekly basis (can be paid monthly), and I'm requiring a 2-week deposit. I don't know if I use "rent" instead of "fees" whether this will change the tone of the "lodging" agreement.

    2. I'm wondering if since the rooms are furnished and I live there, plus all utilities are paid by me, I have more flexibility with these roommates. I'm just trying to hedge the mortgage, but don't want too much risk exposure if the above is not lawful.

    2(a) some are asking if it is possible that I can leave their room unfurnished for them to bring some of their own items. Will these expose me to greater liability with how they are perceived (boarders or licensees vs. tenants). I want to create the best environment for me to be able to ask any problem lodgers to leave within 7 days.

    3. The roommate(s) are also subject to house rules as it pertains to guests, noise, and cleanliness. I am also limiting use of common elements as most applicants are just wanting to let a room. Is that ok? I've had that challenged with a past roommate after she moved into this home and just want to make that clear.

    4. Also, the security deposit is being held in a paypal account. If this is documented by my brokerage firm, can this qualify as an escrow account if only security deposits are being held there? I'm also subject to license law.

    How can I play this?
    Last edited by babybuggs; 06-14-2008 at 06:26 AM. Reason: "providing 7-days oral or written notice to resident-owner" was a scriven error
  2. #2
    johnd is offline Member
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    1) Why play with words? Whether you call it rent, fees or cornbread, any room-temperature IQ'd person knows what it is: rent is for the use of the premises, whether it be paid daily, weekly, monthly,... Fees (in the typical vernacular) are a different thing.
    2) "not lawful" ? What?
    2a) Furnished or not, it does not matter: they are still tenants. More word games: roomates, boarders, licensees and tenants. You can call them the candlestick maker, but they are still tenants if you accept rent.
    3) You can stipulate any portion of a premises you want, but most states require that heat, water, a bathroom and a kitchen are included....even if shared.
    4) Escrow means a separate account that is NOT accessible by you. So a paypal account, virtual checking account, etc. is all just smoke and mirrors if you control it.


    How can you play this? At the risk of being offensive, you strike me as a shyster: trying to circumvent the laws. What you are attempting to do is rent out a premises with rules that apply only for motels and hotels. You want to run a motel or hotel? Then go buy one. If you get caught twisting and comingling the rules, you deserve whatever the courts decide.

    You are specifying (I'm particulary concerned with your 14 day notice) timed notices that are already legislated: be careful. You cannot legislate your own timeline that is less that what the state legislated. Follow the statutes! Hopefully I've talked some sense into you. Now Good Day!
  3. #3
    babybuggs is offline Member
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    ?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    1) Why play with words? Whether you call it rent, fees or cornbread, any room-temperature IQ'd person knows what it is: rent is for the use of the premises, whether it be paid daily, weekly, monthly,... Fees (in the typical vernacular) are a different thing.
    2) "not lawful" ? What?
    2a) Furnished or not, it does not matter: they are still tenants. More word games: roomates, boarders, licensees and tenants. You can call them the candlestick maker, but they are still tenants if you accept rent.
    3) You can stipulate any portion of a premises you want, but most states require that heat, water, a bathroom and a kitchen are included....even if shared.
    4) Escrow means a separate account that is NOT accessible by you. So a paypal account, virtual checking account, etc. is all just smoke and mirrors if you control it.


    How can you play this? At the risk of being offensive, you strike me as a shyster: trying to circumvent the laws. What you are attempting to do is rent out a premises with rules that apply only for motels and hotels. You want to run a motel or hotel? Then go buy one. If you get caught twisting and comingling the rules, you deserve whatever the courts decide.

    You are specifying (I'm particulary concerned with your 14 day notice) timed notices that are already legislated: be careful. You cannot legislate your own timeline that is less that what the state legislated. Follow the statutes! Hopefully I've talked some sense into you. Now Good Day!
    Nice. Here's some clarification:

    I read that rental agreements vs. leases have some flexibility regarding the number of days notice required for termination.

    I want to know if the above paragraph in quotation in original post is lawful. Thank you for being so detail oriented.

    Brokers have to access their escrow accounts to deposit and release funds. Your statement regarding access doesn't make any sense. I told you I'm subject to license law so my actions are held to higher scrutiny. Thus this inquiry.... However, If both parties agree that funds be deposited and/or held in the Paypal account, whether that is lawful is of interest to me. Now if Paypal doesn't qualify for other reasons, I suppose that is also something I'm trying to figure out. I was under the impression that if the tenant were to agree that the deposit be held between a landlord's butt cheeks--with 10 or less units--that such an act was lawful. But I am a licensee acting as a principal, so I don't qualify...

    Landlord Tenant Law States: A landlord who owns more than ten (10) rental units, including units owned by their spouse and children, or who employ a management agent, regardless of the number of units owned, must give the tenant written notice of the location and number of the account in which the security deposit is held.

    Neither applies to me,since I would be considered a licensee who is acting as a principal.

    If I also use the residence and their occupancy is not exclusive, then I would say the terms of the lodging are considerably different than those in exclusive leasehold...especially when these people only want to rent a furnished room for short periods of time (even as little as 2-weeks...)
    Last edited by babybuggs; 06-14-2008 at 07:04 AM.
  4. #4
    johnd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by babybuggs View Post
    Nice. Here's some clarification:

    I read that rental agreements vs. leases have some flexibility regarding the number of days notice required for termination.

    Brokers have to access their escrow accounts to deposit and release funds. Your statement regarding access doesn't make any sense. I told you I'm subject to license law so my actions are held to higher scrutiny. Thus this inquiry.... Now if Paypal doesn't qualify for other reasons, I suppose that is what I'm trying to figure out.

    Landlord Tenant Law States: A landlord who owns more than ten (10) rental units, including units owned by their spouse and children, or who employ a management agent, regardless of the number of units owned, must give the tenant written notice of the location and number of the account in which the security deposit is held.

    Neither applies to me, but I would be considered a licensee who is acting as a principal.

    If I also use the residence and their occupancy is not exclusive, then I would say the terms of the lodging are considerably different than those in exclusive leasehold...especially when these people only want to rent a furnished room for short periods of time (even as little as 2-weeks...)

    DOESN'T MAKE SENSE?

    Your mincing words, little missy, and only the weak-minded could not readily identify it as such.

    So now you're a broker as well (as a LL and property owner). You state that you and your vacation home are located in GA...you wear many hats.

    My statement on escrow holds, oh wearer of many hats. You don't want to listen? Fine.

    And your manipulations of terms and thin interpretations of the rules may pass muster here, but never in a court. It's people like you that give LL's a bad name: You are trying everything you can to circumvent the laws of your state. You don't want to admit it and you don't want to hear it, but it's true. I'm done trying to persuade you of the errors of your ways. I've already told you that you do not fall under the rules that hold for hotels and motels. If you don't have a conscience, and know more than I, then get on with life. Good Day!
  5. #5
    johnd is offline Member
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    Just to humor the other members here, as you have:

    "read that rental agreements vs. leases have some flexibility regarding the number of days notice required for termination."

    Please post that statute. If it's not a statute (or code or rule) it doesn't count. It matters not in the least.

    The final tip for the day: documents speak for themselves. Only the nimble-minded need it explained to them. If it is obtuse or contradictory, it is interpretted against the drafter (in the case of contracts), or very stringently (in the case of a poorly drafted law). What I'm getting to is that if you "read somewhere..." why does that document not speak to you? Why do you need confirmation from any of us? Please post the staute and I'll be happy to proffer my interpretation.
  6. #6
    johnd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by babybuggs View Post
    Nice. Here's some clarification:

    I read that rental agreements vs. leases have some flexibility regarding the number of days notice required for termination.

    I want to know if the above paragraph in quotation in original post is lawful. Thank you for being so detail oriented.
    I have given an opinion on that. Detail? Absolutely. I was concerned with the DETAIL of your 14 day notice. If not contradictory with statute, then nevermind.
  7. #7
    babybuggs is offline Member
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    Smile Silly Rabbit...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    Just to humor the other members here, as you have:

    "read that rental agreements vs. leases have some flexibility regarding the number of days notice required for termination."

    Please post that statute. If it's not a statute (or code or rule) it doesn't count. It matters not in the least.

    The final tip for the day: documents speak for themselves. Only the nimble-minded need it explained to them. If it is obtuse or contradictory, it is interpretted against the drafter (in the case of contracts), or very stringently (in the case of a poorly drafted law). What I'm getting to is that if you "read somewhere..." why does that document not speak to you? Why do you need confirmation from any of us? Please post the staute and I'll be happy to proffer my interpretation.
    I thought your final tip was in the last post where you were done persuading me....Yes I wear many hats. But I specialize in asking questions....

    Further, if I wore a lawyer hat then I could muster the chutzpah to take my chances on my own expertise and ability to research the law. That would be why I'm asking questions at freedvice.com vs. my lawyer colleagues or poring over lexis nexis. Go figure...

    So, If you or anyone else can clarify why the detail of 14-days is OBVIOUSLY not going to fly, then I am seeking such an epiphany. I have/have had great tenants. I've also had one's who make 30 and 60 day notices very unplesant periods. Many states allow 7 and 14 day notices such as Massachusetts, etc. But Georgia law simply states that in the absence of a signed agreement, 60 days notice is required. So I have a signed agreement and I want to push the limits on co-occupants who are only bringing a suitcase with them. Vacation rentals don't have to be licensed as hotels. Why should mine? Further, it's not exclusive occupancy.

    Since these are roommates, I want to get EVERYTHING in writing and the shortest termination period I can get away with. You can villanize me...but it's my property and I have the right to be protective.

    Most if not all the applicants are not considering this their primary residence as most are travelling or renovating their homes. Doesn't that have some impact?

    You must have been the kid in class where the teacher begged someone else to raise their hand; but I appreciate your input nonetheless.

    By the way, I previously stated there are house rules, and this is also a consideration when interpreting the nature of tenancy. I would appreciate if questions 2(a) and 3 were also examined. Thank you.
    Last edited by babybuggs; 06-14-2008 at 07:38 AM. Reason: Hotels do not have "house" rules...
  8. #8
    johnd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by babybuggs View Post
    I thought your final tip was in the last post where you were done persuading me....Yes I wear many hats. But I specialize in asking questions....

    Further, if I wore a lawyer hat then I could muster the chutzpah to take my chances on my own expertise and ability to research the law. That would be why I'm asking questions at freedvice.com vs. my lawyer colleagues or poring over lexis nexis. Go figure...

    So, If you or anyone else can clarify why the detail of 14-days is OBVIOUSLY not going to fly, then I am seeking such an epiphany. I have/have had great tenants. I've also had one's who make 30 and 60 day notices very unplesant periods. Many states allow 7 and 14 day notices such as Massachusetts, etc. But Georgia law simply states that in the absence of a signed agreement, 60 days notice is required. So I have a signed agreement and I want to push the limits on co-occupants who are only bringing a suitcase with them. Vacation rentals don't have to be licensed as hotels. Why should mine? Further, it's not exclusive occupancy.

    Since these are roommates, I want to get EVERYTHING in writing and the shortest termination period I can get away with. You can villanize me...but it's my property and I have the right to be protective.

    Most if not all the applicants are not considering this their primary residence as most are travelling or renovating their homes. Doesn't that have some impact?

    You must have been the kid in class where the teacher begged someone else to raise their hand; but I appreciate your input nonetheless.
    Sheesh. You just don't get it, do you? I don't care if you call them roommates or Pontius Pilate...they are still tenants. And if you truly unable to differentiate between a short, fixed term vacation rental (and any hotel/motel), and what you are proferring (as a disguised/pseudo/almost vacation resort), when, in fact, you are simply taking tenants into your own home, tehn you desreve whatever may come your way. Ya' know, not as many people are as thick as you apparently think.
  9. #9
    babybuggs is offline Member
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    Ok,what about this...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    Sheesh. You just don't get it, do you? I don't care if you call them roommates or Pontius Pilate...they are still tenants. And if you truly unable to differentiate between a short, fixed term vacation rental (and any hotel/motel), and what you are proferring (as a disguised/pseudo/almost vacation resort), when, in fact, you are simply taking tenants into your own home, tehn you desreve whatever may come your way. Ya' know, not as many people are as thick as you apparently think.
    I read at the following website: If a lease is determined to be a week-to-week lease, generally seven days notice is required for termination. If the lease is determined to be a month-to-month lease, thirty days notice is gererally required for termination.

    I stipulated that this is a week-to-week tenancy. This is the website:

    [url]http://www.uslegalforms.com/landlordtenant/states/[/url]

    All I need to know is that week-to-week tenancy can be terminated in Georgia according to the above terms. I thought I was being rather nice by giving (14) days for any reason excepting default or non-payment.

    Should I eliminate the lease/lodging period and simply state that said agreement shall be a week-to-week tenancy?
    Last edited by babybuggs; 06-14-2008 at 07:52 AM. Reason: lease period
  10. #10
    johnd is offline Member
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    Nice? How are you being nice? I am not well-educated on GA law, but my understanding is that is no such thing as a 14 day notice. There is a 7 day (to quit or cure), and a 30 day and 60 day Notice to Terminate....but no 14 day. As a LL you should already know this. If you are extending the 7 day to 14 days (with right to cure) which I don't believe you are, so be it. But you cannot truncate the 30 or 60 day to 14 days.
  11. #11
    babybuggs is offline Member
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    Week to Week Tenancy

    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    Nice? How are you being nice? I am not well-educated on GA law, but my understanding is that is no such thing as a 14 day notice. There is a 7 day (to quit or cure), and a 30 day and 60 day Notice to Terminate....but no 14 day. As a LL you should already know this. If you are extending the 7 day to 14 days (with right to cure) which I don't believe you are, so be it. But you cannot truncate the 30 or 60 day to 14 days.
    Ok, It is a seven day notice for a week-to-week we've been discussing, but I want it to be an unconditional notice to quit. I thought that the 60 notice from LL was in the absence of an agreement that had a termination clause. I am providing for a (7) notice terminate a week-to-week tenant. Can anyone provide clarification on how to terminate a week-to-week tenancy and whether I am within the guidlelines? I don't want my agreement to be unlawful.
    Last edited by babybuggs; 06-14-2008 at 08:50 AM.
  12. #12
    johnd is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by babybuggs View Post
    Ok, It is a seven day notice for a week-to-week we've been discussing, but I want it to be an unconditional notice to quit. I thought that the 60 notice from LL was in the absence of an agreement that had a termination clause. I am providing for a (7) notice terminate a week-to-week tenant. Can anyone provide clarification on how to terminate a week-to-week tenancy and whether I am within the guidlelines? I don't want my agreement to be unlawful.
    You can't shorten the timeframe!

    Again, the 7 day has a right to cure. An unconditional termination is either 30 or 60 days.
  13. #13
    Alaska landlord is offline Senior Member
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    The link below addresses all questions raised by Johnd and OP.
    I didn't read it in detail, but it appears that in the case of non payment OP can just literally go to court and start an immediate eviction. Also, exclusivity of the apartment is assumed unless specified in the lease.

    [url]http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:k35SNPRYtXkJ:www.dca.state.ga.us/housing/HousingDevelopment/programs/downloads/FAQHANDB-PgNo.pdf+GA%2Blandlord+tenant+act&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&client=firefox-a[/url]
  14. #14
    Alaska landlord is offline Senior Member
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    Georgia law does not require the landlord to place the security deposit in an interest
    bearing account nor does the law require that any interest that is earned be paid to the tenant.
    However, the tenant and landlord may agree that the landlord will provide interest earned on the
    security deposit and, if agreed upon, this should be reflected in the lease

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