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Misrepresentation of apt due to dummy thermostat?

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What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY


An ongoing issue with my LL has been the thermostat in our apt. When we looked at the apt for the first time, we were told heat was included and saw the thermostat in the main room. I came to realize that the thermostat, while containing wires to go to the proper area of the house, do not actually work. LL said he paid for a 2-zone heating system but the installer only did a 1-zone.

This means I am not in control of my own heat. When the upstairs tenants want heat, I get it. When they don't want heat, I don't get any.

LL "assures" me this will be fixed but he has told us that since we discovered the issue. Heat needs to be turned on by Oct 1st as per local law, and we are getting dangerously close and normal temperatures are dropping.

I feel this is a misrepresentation of the apt as I would not have rented it if I knew I would not be able to control my heat. Is this incorrect? We were not notified about anything with the heat so we were assuming everything was alright. I only found the issue after wanting to turn up the heat (after moving in) and realized nothing was happening. LL never said anything until we mentioned it.

Thanks. :)
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Why did you start another thread on this?

https://forum.freeadvice.com/landlord-tenant-issues-42/ll-allowing-more-tenants-shared-house-duplex-than-lease-causing-issues-526361.html
 

sandyclaus

Senior Member
It seems to me that you don't have an issue until October 1st at the very earliest.

Who knows? You might even be surprised to find that the other unit that shares your heat will keep the place warm enough to your liking.

If they do not, then you might have an issue, but it's a little premature to be thinking about this now for something that you don't know for sure will even happen.
 
It seems to me that you don't have an issue until October 1st at the very earliest.

Who knows? You might even be surprised to find that the other unit that shares your heat will keep the place warm enough to your liking.

If they do not, then you might have an issue, but it's a little premature to be thinking about this now for something that you don't know for sure will even happen.

Yep I know we don't actually have an issue until 10/1 but I am just planning. Regardless if the other unit keeps the place warm enough, is it not an issue that the LL did not disclose that the heat is not under our control? I mean, the thermostat looked to work when we were looking at the apt, he kept his mouth shut only until we mentioned the thermostat not triggering the heat.
 

FarmerJ

Senior Member
Even if the LL gets the Tstat working by installing other zone valve , your free to suggest to the LL to simply change the wires so first fl t stat would be the one to control it since heat rises , but dont be surprised if the LL installs a conservation model that is secured to prevent tampering.
 

Gail in Georgia

Senior Member
Your landlord told you when you looked at the rental unit that "heat was included". Is that not the case? If so, nothing was misrepresented.

Gail
 
well, I doubt you will reach the temps needed to conclude that the heat goes below the legal threshold (ie 50 F ??) so when you want it warmer you'll have to talk to your downstairs neighbors ... bother them enough & they may complain to the LL too or they may just tell you to piss off
 

BL

Senior Member
Depending on where in NY you live ,there is State Law and possibly local codes that must be followed ( say in a City ),whereas each room must be kept at 68 %'s during the heating season during the day and a certain degree at night .

Check into it .

This is not another tenant's responsibility ,but the LL's, although you can speak to the other tenant and ask .That's if the Stat isn't locked.
 

treese

Senior Member
Your heat is included with the rent. As long as the rental is maintained to the proper temperature requirements, there is no issue.


New York City requirements are:
Heating Requirements for New York City
In effect October 1 to May 31

Time of If Outside Temp. Inside Temp must
Day is less than: be more than:

6:00 am - 10:00 pm 55° 68°
10:00 pm - 6:00 am 40° 55°
 
Last edited:
Thanks everyone!

We understand "heat is included" but it's not like there is a secret LL-only thermostat to make sure the heat level is set to a specific level, we just don't have a thermostat. The house is a split duplex so the upstairs tenants (who we are definitely not on good terms with) have their own functional thermostat, which controls the whole house. Meaning, if they like it colder than we do, we are SOL since they control the whole house, rather than each apartment getting their own thermostat (which is possibly what the LL wanted, I am not sure). This is not right. I would not have rented the apartment if I knew this, and I am upset about it that I may be shafted on this.
 

FarmerJ

Senior Member
Your certainly free to ask the LL if the other solenoid will be installed soon , your free to offer to the LL that since heat rises if they are not able to get another solenoid installed soon that it may be a wiser choice to just connect first floor t stat and leave second floor as non working until the work can be done. If LL wont do any of the above its very likely your LL already knows the risk of you calling inspections So if you take this approach be polite ( it will come out as you being helpful) if your not then dont be surprised if your LL not only gets the other solenoid installed but either adds conservation T stats and locks them OR steps it up farther and installs flow meters with each solenoid to get useage readings and puts it into the next lease that tenant must reimburse him for heat based on use ( I used to own a multi unit that had flow meters for each zone, very easy to read them to calculate how much heat is used by whom)
 
Your certainly free to ask the LL if the other solenoid will be installed soon , your free to offer to the LL that since heat rises if they are not able to get another solenoid installed soon that it may be a wiser choice to just connect first floor t stat and leave second floor as non working until the work can be done. If LL wont do any of the above its very likely your LL already knows the risk of you calling inspections So if you take this approach be polite ( it will come out as you being helpful) if your not then dont be surprised if your LL not only gets the other solenoid installed but either adds conservation T stats and locks them OR steps it up farther and installs flow meters with each solenoid to get useage readings and puts it into the next lease that tenant must reimburse him for heat based on use ( I used to own a multi unit that had flow meters for each zone, very easy to read them to calculate how much heat is used by whom)

Honestly I'd be fine if the heat was guaranteed to be at a certain level, or limited at a certain range. I don't want a sauna I just don't want to be stuck in 20 degree weather in January and the upstairs tenants like cooler weather.

He is 100% aware of the issue and any time we press him (politely) he says he will fix it, don't worry. He's been pulling that for 5 months.

And we aren't renewing the lease so I don't care whatever he puts in for the next tenants, he is fine with overcrowding of the apartment/property, upstairs tenants leaving dog feces all over the lawn, lawn not being mowed in months, etc. Trust me we are planning to leave, whether it's due to end of lease at end of April 2011, or whether something happens due to this heat situation.
 
Hi,

Just an update.

We sent a few certified letters to the LL across 2 months.

A repair request back on september 22 saying we need heat by Oct 15 (giving more than 15 days to repair the situation as the heating season starts on Oct 1). -- This was responded to with a nasty text message stating:

I was very insulted by your letter. In may you don't need heat. And you have received a lot of extra attention from me. It is a 2 family home and it won't be as quiet as a 1. It is what it is. I repaired all over and over. I allowed the dog. I walked in to you repainting my freshly painted walls without telling me. All of that is not as bothersome as a rext from (girlfriend) that she was cold in the middle of 90 degree days. 1 68 degree night does not require heat. And its laughable. As such. Rather than us have issues. I will show you my boiler installation bills. I was unaware of the connector not being attached. I appreciate your honesty. The apartment was overly warm last year so I am not concerned about your having heat. I am concerned about maturity and your ability to understand what a 2 family home is and what an apartment is all about. And what you can and cannot achieve with different tenants lifestyles
We knew he wasn't going to fix the heat, so we sent him another letter on the 15th saying we were being constructively evicted (after talking to a lawyer first, obviously) and that we have tried to get this resolved peacefully but he obviously does not want to fix it. He responded with:

I am just out of the hospital. You are a disgrace. To do what you 2 try to do. To lie and concoct stories. Shame on you both. Your lease is intact. I will work with you (me). (girlfriend) thinks she is smart. G-d help you in the future. Be a man. Your a good hearted one. Be honest and stop allowing her to do what you both do. Its awful behavior
We were taken aback by his message saying we are making up stories and lying to him. We knew exactly what the situation was so we called the town's building department as we did not want the LL to pull the same stuff with a new tenant. They came over the next day (10/20) and checked out the heating system. They said that the furnace was never turned on, nor would it ever be able to turn on. There were 0 zones and 0 thermostats. The buildings dept told me they have a record with this guy causing issues and doing stuff exactly like this... he used to have 4 families living in a 2 family home, for example. They said that the heat would never function and we should move. We had signed a lease the day before (10/19) as we had given the LL ample time to remedy the situation. We sent another certified letter asking for a final walkthrough. He did not respond by any means.

We sent one final letter to him, stating that since we have not heard from him, we took pictures of the premises to prove we have not damaged the property, as well as the condition of the back yard (which was another issue.. he allowed the other tenants to completely trash it and told me I was being unreasonable with expecting it cleaned up), and that we considered our possession of the property relinquished. He sent one final message today:

Be advised your self serving letters do not negate a lease. And you have not surrendered the premises as per the lease. All legal remedies are still my right to persue.

When I called the town, they called the plumber that was listed as the installer of the heat system over to see what was going on. The plumber told me he never came to this house and that he never did the installation. What happened was he (stupidly) gave the LL an invoice to write off some stuff for tax purposes, and the LL wrote down the 2 zone heat install down and submitted it. Essentially the LL fraudulently said that the plumber did the install and tried to tell the plumber that WE pulled all the wiring to get no heat. :confused:



Also, after sending the first repair request letter, he left me a voicemail saying he thinks we'd be better off moving out and he would find new tenants. He confirmed this twice via VM, and once via text messages. We were moving forward with that and keeping the heat issue as a card to use in case he backed out of it (which he in fact did).

I am stressing now, as we have done nothing but try to be professional about it but the fact was that he STILL does not provide heat to the house and thinks we are still liable for the rent. I do not have the keys anymore and the apartment is empty.

We may be going to court, so does anyone have any suggestions on what to do? We are getting in touch with the buildings department tomorrow to get any documentation that could help us... they said anything we need they will give us, as they have had countless problems with this guy.

thanks.
 

FarmerJ

Senior Member
Since you moved away part of it is not your problem any more, if the LL re rents the unit it is between LL / new tenant and city inspections . NOW about your visit from inspections get them to put it on paper the finding about the heating system and get a copy for your records to take to court with you if it comes to that , you will need to prove to the court that inspections said no one can live there so you want that in writting from inspections too . See if you can get a print out of the homes permit history so you can show the court no permit was filed for the heating system install. save those text on the phone too. If you have to sue for deposit refund use the recomendation that you move from the city as well as its written finding about the heat as basis that the unit was not fit to live in so you are owed full refund, If LL attempts to unfairly hold funds or sue you for unpaid rent add your pics, letter copies along with inspections reports and lack of permit history to defend you.
 

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