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  1. #1
    T.K.C. is offline Junior Member
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    My landlord does not allow my firends stay overnight?

    What is the name of your state? NY

    I live in NYC, the rented unit is a three bedroom appartment, recently I receive a letter from my landlord.
    She states on the letter that due to the contract "the rented unit will be only occupied by three preson(s) otherwise the tenant will be charged an additional $100 for per additional person". So from the next month the tenants need to pay additional $200 rental fee.
    The moral of the story is that, one of my housemate and me bring our girl friends back home regularly (they do not obtain keys) and they sometimes stay overnight approximately 2-4 times a week. This situation noticed by the landlord several times, so she now wants us to pay $200 more per month.

    Is this a legal action for a landlord?
    How to interpret the term "occupied by no more than three person(s)"
    How can we interpret the term "occupied"? Does that mean some specific period of time?

    Thank you for time!
  2. #2
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.K.C. View Post
    How to interpret the term "occupied by no more than three person(s)"
    How can we interpret the term "occupied"? Does that mean some specific period of time?
    I think the following pretty much covers it:


    ...one of my housemate and me bring our girl friends back home regularly (they do not obtain keys) and they sometimes stay overnight approximately 2-4 times a week.

    Thank you for time!
    You're Welcome!
  3. #3
    xylene is offline Senior Member
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    Your girlfriends are not occupants as defined by the law (meaning persons residing or intending to reside in the dwelling unit for 30 days continuously or longer.)

    Your landlord may limit occupancy of a dwelling unit to comply with the lawful occupancy limits, however in a 3 bedroom apartment I find it doubtful this is 3 persons.

    You are covered by the first fact; your night guests are not occupants.

    I am doubtful the 3 person occupancy limit is enforceable since the landlords right to regulate private dwelling.

    You will get a some landlords on here stating the 'water bill' or 'professional tenant'. They are cranks and there opinon has nothing to do with the fact that leaseholder tenants of private dwelling units have rights, including the right to privacy in their overnight guests.

    I am quiet sure your landlord is some kind of religious or perverted crank.
  4. #4
    COlandlord is offline Member
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    Your girlfriends are not occupants as defined by the law (meaning persons residing or intending to reside in the dwelling unit for 30 days continuously or longer.)

    Xylene...where do you get your totally inaccurate information?

    "Occupant" in the apartment is defined in your lease. It clearly states that no more than 3 persons are to occupy the home...what does it say about visitors? My lease clearly states that no person is allowed to stay for more than 7 days in a three month period. More than that and I have every legal right to require the "guest" to be added on to the lease or the tenants are in violation of their agreement.

    Your failure to follow your lease could result in fines (as stated in your lease) or eviction. Please be cautious of inaccurate and uneducated information that could result in a negative impact on not only your pocketbook but your credit.
    Last edited by COlandlord; 04-17-2008 at 03:51 PM.
  5. #5
    T.K.C. is offline Junior Member
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    To COlandlord and xylene,

    Thank you for your replying.

    In fact, there has no state on the lease saying that how many days in how long period my vistors(guests) could stay in my place.
    It dose say that "the rented unit will be occupied by no more than three preson(s)".

    So I think both your suggestions are good.
    Im just not sure should I or shouldnt I pay the bill.
    Cuz to me, although my friends do come to my place regularly but they are not able to enter my place freely(they dont have keys). Their mailing, billing addresses are not at my place(they have theiw own place).
    Thats why I get a little confused about the term "occupied"

    Thank you guys, I really appreciate.
  6. #6
    MIRAKALES is offline Senior Member
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    An occupant is a person that lives at the premises. Although the friends have their own, separate address, they dwell at the rented premises several days per week. This would make them an occupant, living at the premises which is a violation of the lease agreement. The number of days of occupancy are irrelevant, in this case, because the occupancy is regular and consistent. The lease agreement provides a clause to compensate for additional occupants. Therefore, LL is perfectly within their right to charge additional for the occupants. Tenant read it, signed it, and agreed to it. Now that the lease agreement is being enforced, what is the issue? Either pay or quit. Spend some time at your friends rented premises and the LL will not notice their “occupancy.”
  7. #7
    xylene is offline Senior Member
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by COlandlord View Post
    Your girlfriends are not occupants as defined by the law (meaning persons residing or intending to reside in the dwelling unit for 30 days continuously or longer.)

    Xylene...where do you get your totally inaccurate information?

    "Occupant" in the apartment is defined in your lease. It clearly states that no more than 3 persons are to occupy the home...what does it say about visitors? My lease clearly states that no person is allowed to stay for more than 7 days in a three month period. More than that and I have every legal right to require the "guest" to be added on to the lease or the tenants are in violation of their agreement.

    Your failure to follow your lease could result in fines (as stated in your lease) or eviction. Please be cautious of inaccurate and uneducated information that could result in a negative impact on not only your pocketbook but your credit.
    Consult NYS real property law Sec. 235-f for a start.

    What your lease says is not relevant to New York State law and NYC reulgation and your clause would not be enforceable.

    Under NYS law the landlords right to restrict occupancy is described by law. That means the lease is trumped by the law.

    At the bare minimum on its face the posters lease occupancy restriction is tenuous at best. in terms of its legality.

    Further, and more importantly, the girlfriends are not occupants, as they have not taken up residence in apartment nor have they been present in the apartment for more than 30 days continuously. (See it is a two way test either they moved in or they didn't "move in" but they have been there 30 days, get the picture)

    What they would be under some other lease of a another landlord in another state with laws that are less favorable to professional tenants is not relevant.

    The landlord would be laughed out of housing court if he came with an allegation of illegal occupancy with the evidence being he saw his tenants shack-up.

    New York State courts sensibly do not have the time to deal with moralist landlords watching tenants private sex lives.

    This landlord would need some proof of occupancy other than "I saw them come and go." to enforce his occupancy penalty clause, if it is even lawful.
    Last edited by xylene; 04-17-2008 at 05:05 PM.
  8. #8
    xylene is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIRAKALES View Post
    Tenant read it, signed it, and agreed to it.
    Pro tenants KNOW that illegal clauses can't be enforced in New York MIRAKELES.

    This isn't about some code of honor. Signing your name to an unenforceable agreement means nothing, as it should.

    As to an occupnacy test what matters is the test under New York law, not what you or your dozens of 'lawyer' friends think is 'reasonable' or 'customary'
  9. #9
    COlandlord is offline Member
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    Xylene, as an expert tenant please educate us, but educate us correctly. The real property law you refer to does not define occupancy as you say. It clearly states that a landlord cannot limit the number of occupants or put restrictions on a household for IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS. It also does not state that a person is considered an occupant after 30 consecutive days. If your going to quote and pretend to be an expect...please back up the claims.
  10. #10
    MIRAKALES is offline Senior Member
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    LL is not restricting occupancy. Lease agreement simply states that additional occupants will access additional costs. That was agreed to and understood by both the LL and tenant. The thirty (30) consecutive day rule or use of mailing address are not the only “litmus tests” to determine tenancy or occupancy. Some other “litmus tests” to determine occupancy are whether the occupant sleeps and showers at the residence. Common sense dictates that these particular individuals occupy the rental premises. Despite claims of separate living arrangements, these individuals regularly sleep and shower at the leased premises.

    The lease agreement is very relevant and is enforceable. The restrictive laws about additional occupants generally refer to immediate family members. The additional occupant clause (even for relatives) is not illegal or in conflict with existing housing laws. A property owner needs to manage their management costs and maintenance expenses. More people… More Money!
    (Any LL would be within their right to charge additional for a daytime nanny that occupies the premises on a daily basis. Unlike these occupants, the nanny does at least return home at night, not requiring additional maintenance and significantly utilizing additional utilities.)
  11. #11
    BL
    BL is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by COlandlord View Post
    Xylene, as an expert tenant please educate us, but educate us correctly. The real property law you refer to does not define occupancy as you say. It clearly states that a landlord cannot limit the number of occupants or put restrictions on a household for IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS. It also does not state that a person is considered an occupant after 30 consecutive days. If your going to quote and pretend to be an expect...please back up the claims.
    Most NY leases have a clause that you can have guest up to two weeks .

    Many Landlords tell tenants they can not have any other occupants than what is on the lease . Some go as far to say no guest or overnight guest .

    I can't find anything on overnight guest 2-4 times a week , but if those guest are problematic , it could lead to eviction .


    Guests: Tenants are allowed to have guests in their apartment without the landlord’s consent. This includes
    overnight guests. A guest can stay in an apartment for up to 30 days before a landlord can consider that the
    person has moved in permanently. If a guest causes a problem on the property a landlord can attempt to restrict
    that individual from returning to the property


    Objectionable Tenancy:An objectionable tenancy eviction involves a tenant whose behavior is undesirable. Some exampleswould include violation of terms of a lease or rental agreement, damage to the property, disruption of the livesof other tenants or neighbors, violation of the law on the property etc. For this type of eviction there must bea written lease. The lease also must have a termination clause giving the landlord the right to send a notice to atenant, which terminates the tenancy, based on objectionable conduct. Such conduct must be frequent andcontinuous. If the tenant does not move the landlord can take the tenant to court for Holdover.


    APARTMENT SHARING
    It is unlawful for a landlord to restrict occupancy of an apartment to the named tenant in the lease or to that tenant and immediate family. When the lease names only one tenant, that tenant may share the apartment with immediate family, one additional occupant and the occupant's dependent children, provided that the tenant or the tenant's spouse occupies the premises as his primary residence.
    When the lease names more than one tenant, these tenants may share their apartment with immediate family, and, if one of the tenants named in the lease moves out, that tenant may be replaced with another occupant and the dependent children of the occupant. At least one of the tenants named in the lease or that tenant's spouse must occupy the shared apartment as his or her primary residence.
    Tenants must inform their landlords of the name of any occupant within 30 days after the occupant has moved into the apartment or within 30 days of a landlord's request for this information. If the tenant named in the lease moves out, the remaining occupant has no right to continue in occupancy without the landlord's express consent. Landlords may limit the total number of people living in an apartment to comply with legal overcrowding standards. (Real Property Law §235-f)
  12. #12
    glennair is offline Member
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    Me thinks you party much.

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