brighteyes1977
Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? AZ
I am the tenant.
Moved in Saturday, July 5th. Called plumber Monday, July 7th because the master bathroom toilet continuously ran. Set up appointment for the following day. The plumber said he showed up, but he never did. I was at home all day with my 3 kids, a friend, and the cox home security installation guys. He said he called, but I never heard my phone ring. I got the messages about 4pm on Tuesday. Re-scheduled for Friday. Wednesday I had to take my FIL to the airport. We left around 11:30 and we got back around 2:30. In that time our toilet had overflowed and caused some serious damage to the upstairs and downstairs. I called the plumber and not so nicely told him to be here in 20 mins! He showed up and said our flapper was warped. He also said that there was a soft clog in the toilet. I don't know how it got clogged, every time we flushed, it flushed correctly.
Finally got a hold of the LL and he called HIS guys, the ones he requested we use. He then called his home insurance company to get a claim submitted. Contractors came in and ripped out carpet and padding and walls and ceilings. We trusted what the contractor said needed to be done. We also trusted the LL that this would be covered by his home owners insurance, especially since he said he would take care of it.
His insurance came back and said that they won't cover any of the damage. He then emailed me saying (I'm paraphrasing): Insurance determined that soft clog in the drain line and a worn out toilet flapper was the cause of the overflow and resulting damage. agent said, the soft clog was caused by tissue/paper or something akin to it in the drain which caused the water to back up after being flushed. This apparently occurred after usage of the toilet when it was known to have a defect. Both, homeowners inspection and renters inspection (we both ordered outside home inspectors to inspect the entire home) neither one of them mentioned the defective toilet. We are in a lease option and agreed upon proper maintenance and repair. Even though we did our due diligence in contacting a plumber, since we didn't turn off the water we are now liable for the repairs.
So here are my concerns, issues, and statements that I have:
1.) We were not negligent, we had called a plumber to resolve the problem and he never showed when he was suppose to. Plus, honestly how many people turn their toilet water off because it continuously runs? I think maybe 1 in a million!
2.) If we had know it had clogged, we would have plunged it right away!
3.) The home that we are in was bought by an investor that bought it from a foreclosure auction. He does not live in the area, he lives in the SE, and hasn't personally seen or inspected the property himself. So he took the home inspection report as his 'walk-thru'. But then again, so did we.
4.) When we moved in there were many things defective that we knew of, that were listed in the inspection report, and we got the homeowner/LL to fix some of them, but the others we were on our own. No big deal, he have a home warranty plan. But we didn't notice the toilet running until we officially moved in on the 5th of July
5.) There is a line in the lease agreement that states:
ACCEPTANCE OF PREMISES: Tenant accept property in its present "AS-IS" condition. Tenants have been given the right to inspect the property. Tenants acknowledges receipt of the "move-In inspection form" and accepts the responsibility to complete said form within seven (7) days of taking possession and return a completed, signed copy to Managements. Failure to do so shall constitute Tenant's acknowledgment that the Property is in good and tenant-able condition in every particular, and that remediation of any damage including breakage, burns, wear not shown in the "move-In Inspection form" shall be the Tenant's sole responsibility and expense.
So my questions are:
1.) How exactly are we negligent? We called a plumber the second we noticed a problem, he didn't show, problem didn't get fixed, toilet overflowed.
2.) We never got a chance to get a second opinion for the cost to repair the damage, as the homeowner insisted that we use his guys and that he would call his insurance company.
3.) Which law are we under? We are considered tenants, but are in a lease option. Everything should have been in working order prior to move in, correct? Regardless of the AS-IS clause? I mean, if we were strictly tenants, the LL would have done a walk-thru with the tenants to look over everything with them, the same thing would happen on move out. Since he has never seen the property this accident could have happened while the home sit vacant. The plumber said the flap was severely warped and could have been stuck open at anytime. It just happened when we took possession.
4.) We have renters insurance and our LL said there might be a provision in there that if the LL's insurance doesn't cover it, then our insurance will. Where would I find that?
5.) There is also a clause that says:
REPAIRS & IMPROVEMENTS:
Tenants shall be responsible for all repairs, maintenance, costs, service charges, painting or improvements that are out of neglect or not from normal wear/usage. LL will not be responsible for any repairs except as required by LL under state or federal law. Tenants shall take an active role to ensure that the property stays in excellent condition. All repairs above $1,000 shall be considered to be potentially major and should be handled by the LL insurance company. LL should be given written notice immediately of any needed repairs exceeding $1,000. Tenants agree that he/she has had adequate opportunity to inspect the condition of the property and LL makes no warranties or representations about the condition of the property, the improvements, utilities, electrical, plumbing, appliances or any latent defects of property, the improvements, utilities, electrical, plumbing, appliances or the neighborhood. Tenants have the right to decorate the property in his/her discretion within tasteful guidelines. Tenants will not make any material alteration to the property without prior written consent of the managements. Any work performed on the premises whether by Tenants or other parties shall be as an independent contractor or agent of the Tenants and not an employee or agent of the LL. Tenant further warrants that he will be accountable for any mishaps and/or accidents resulting from such work, and will defend, indemnify and hold the LL, LL's agents or associated companies free from claims of any other person or entity. All improvements to the property shall be the property of the LL and remain attached and part of the property when Tenant vacates. tenants shall waive any lien for work or materials under applicable state law.
6.) With that said, are we strictly tenants? And it states that anything over $1000 will be handled by LL insurance. Plus the toilet flap is from normal wear/usage that was neglected by the Owner, NOT the tenant. Had he personally inspected the property, he would have noticed it.
So with all of that, again, how are we totally responsible for this? I MIGHT be willing to say 50/50, but even that is a stretch. We had totally assumed that we would have to pay the $1000, but nothing above and beyond that. And since we didn't get a chance to have a say in repairs, why should we have to pay top dollar for things we never approved to have fixed on our dime.
Okay, this is long enough. Ask questions if things are unclear.
I am the tenant.
Moved in Saturday, July 5th. Called plumber Monday, July 7th because the master bathroom toilet continuously ran. Set up appointment for the following day. The plumber said he showed up, but he never did. I was at home all day with my 3 kids, a friend, and the cox home security installation guys. He said he called, but I never heard my phone ring. I got the messages about 4pm on Tuesday. Re-scheduled for Friday. Wednesday I had to take my FIL to the airport. We left around 11:30 and we got back around 2:30. In that time our toilet had overflowed and caused some serious damage to the upstairs and downstairs. I called the plumber and not so nicely told him to be here in 20 mins! He showed up and said our flapper was warped. He also said that there was a soft clog in the toilet. I don't know how it got clogged, every time we flushed, it flushed correctly.
Finally got a hold of the LL and he called HIS guys, the ones he requested we use. He then called his home insurance company to get a claim submitted. Contractors came in and ripped out carpet and padding and walls and ceilings. We trusted what the contractor said needed to be done. We also trusted the LL that this would be covered by his home owners insurance, especially since he said he would take care of it.
His insurance came back and said that they won't cover any of the damage. He then emailed me saying (I'm paraphrasing): Insurance determined that soft clog in the drain line and a worn out toilet flapper was the cause of the overflow and resulting damage. agent said, the soft clog was caused by tissue/paper or something akin to it in the drain which caused the water to back up after being flushed. This apparently occurred after usage of the toilet when it was known to have a defect. Both, homeowners inspection and renters inspection (we both ordered outside home inspectors to inspect the entire home) neither one of them mentioned the defective toilet. We are in a lease option and agreed upon proper maintenance and repair. Even though we did our due diligence in contacting a plumber, since we didn't turn off the water we are now liable for the repairs.
So here are my concerns, issues, and statements that I have:
1.) We were not negligent, we had called a plumber to resolve the problem and he never showed when he was suppose to. Plus, honestly how many people turn their toilet water off because it continuously runs? I think maybe 1 in a million!
2.) If we had know it had clogged, we would have plunged it right away!
3.) The home that we are in was bought by an investor that bought it from a foreclosure auction. He does not live in the area, he lives in the SE, and hasn't personally seen or inspected the property himself. So he took the home inspection report as his 'walk-thru'. But then again, so did we.
4.) When we moved in there were many things defective that we knew of, that were listed in the inspection report, and we got the homeowner/LL to fix some of them, but the others we were on our own. No big deal, he have a home warranty plan. But we didn't notice the toilet running until we officially moved in on the 5th of July
5.) There is a line in the lease agreement that states:
ACCEPTANCE OF PREMISES: Tenant accept property in its present "AS-IS" condition. Tenants have been given the right to inspect the property. Tenants acknowledges receipt of the "move-In inspection form" and accepts the responsibility to complete said form within seven (7) days of taking possession and return a completed, signed copy to Managements. Failure to do so shall constitute Tenant's acknowledgment that the Property is in good and tenant-able condition in every particular, and that remediation of any damage including breakage, burns, wear not shown in the "move-In Inspection form" shall be the Tenant's sole responsibility and expense.
So my questions are:
1.) How exactly are we negligent? We called a plumber the second we noticed a problem, he didn't show, problem didn't get fixed, toilet overflowed.
2.) We never got a chance to get a second opinion for the cost to repair the damage, as the homeowner insisted that we use his guys and that he would call his insurance company.
3.) Which law are we under? We are considered tenants, but are in a lease option. Everything should have been in working order prior to move in, correct? Regardless of the AS-IS clause? I mean, if we were strictly tenants, the LL would have done a walk-thru with the tenants to look over everything with them, the same thing would happen on move out. Since he has never seen the property this accident could have happened while the home sit vacant. The plumber said the flap was severely warped and could have been stuck open at anytime. It just happened when we took possession.
4.) We have renters insurance and our LL said there might be a provision in there that if the LL's insurance doesn't cover it, then our insurance will. Where would I find that?
5.) There is also a clause that says:
REPAIRS & IMPROVEMENTS:
Tenants shall be responsible for all repairs, maintenance, costs, service charges, painting or improvements that are out of neglect or not from normal wear/usage. LL will not be responsible for any repairs except as required by LL under state or federal law. Tenants shall take an active role to ensure that the property stays in excellent condition. All repairs above $1,000 shall be considered to be potentially major and should be handled by the LL insurance company. LL should be given written notice immediately of any needed repairs exceeding $1,000. Tenants agree that he/she has had adequate opportunity to inspect the condition of the property and LL makes no warranties or representations about the condition of the property, the improvements, utilities, electrical, plumbing, appliances or any latent defects of property, the improvements, utilities, electrical, plumbing, appliances or the neighborhood. Tenants have the right to decorate the property in his/her discretion within tasteful guidelines. Tenants will not make any material alteration to the property without prior written consent of the managements. Any work performed on the premises whether by Tenants or other parties shall be as an independent contractor or agent of the Tenants and not an employee or agent of the LL. Tenant further warrants that he will be accountable for any mishaps and/or accidents resulting from such work, and will defend, indemnify and hold the LL, LL's agents or associated companies free from claims of any other person or entity. All improvements to the property shall be the property of the LL and remain attached and part of the property when Tenant vacates. tenants shall waive any lien for work or materials under applicable state law.
6.) With that said, are we strictly tenants? And it states that anything over $1000 will be handled by LL insurance. Plus the toilet flap is from normal wear/usage that was neglected by the Owner, NOT the tenant. Had he personally inspected the property, he would have noticed it.
So with all of that, again, how are we totally responsible for this? I MIGHT be willing to say 50/50, but even that is a stretch. We had totally assumed that we would have to pay the $1000, but nothing above and beyond that. And since we didn't get a chance to have a say in repairs, why should we have to pay top dollar for things we never approved to have fixed on our dime.
Okay, this is long enough. Ask questions if things are unclear.
