Noise issues/rent money issues

[MAlandlordissue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Massachusetts.

Hi, so I'm a university student in MA. I rented an apartment with a friend for a year lease, starting in June 2014. The problem I've been having is noise issues. It's NOT the neighbors who are loud - instead, there is an adjacent apartment that has ventilation/pipes (not exactly sure what) that is right outside my room and it causes a lot of noise. The noise is loud enough that I cannot sleep or study in my room. I've informed my landlord about this issue around the end of October 2014, and I've brought it up several time since, but the problem has not been addressed. (I've been sleeping in the living room and studying in the library instead.)

The main issue of contention is regarding the rent payment. I told the landlord that I would only pay 75% of the rent given the noise issue. He agreed, but here it gets a bit more complicated. I had initially paid 6 months of rent, upfront, when I first moved in. I told him I would retroactively count some of those months in the reduction of rent, starting in November (since I informed the landlord about the issue in late October). He disagreed, and we have been in a sort of standoff since. He's threatened me with eviction, but he hasn't done anything. Meanwhile, I've been extremely busy with my schoolwork so I haven't had the time to consult legal advice.

Anyway, so my lease is expiring in less than 2 months. He wants me to pay a remaining $500, which does not take into account the retroactive reduction as I've asked for. I only plan to pay him $250, which takes into account the reductions from November. Is this something I can win or defend myself in court? Or should I just fold and pay him the $500?

Another question. I am also considering moving out a month early to avoid paying the last month's rent. Am I allowed to do so? I am assuming that I have the right to move out/terminate the lease given the unaddressed noise issues.

 

[justalayman]

so, how much is your deposit (total between you and the roommate since you are presumably on a common lease)? Expect the landlord to take whatever rent is owed from that deposit along with any damages he can claim for.



You have no right to rent abatement, especially an amount of your calculation, for the issue at hand.

Or should I just fold and pay him the $500?

yes. If you do not and he files for an eviction, you will end up with an eviction on your credit record. That will make renting in the future difficult as well as being viewed as a negative to anybody reviewing your credit history for financial services.

Another question. I am also considering moving out a month early to avoid paying the last month's rent. Am I allowed to do so? I

no. You owe for the entire lease period which as you have stated ends in June.

I am assuming that I have the right to move out/terminate the lease given the unaddressed noise issues.

You best have a legal basis for that argument but given the actual minimal amount of noise involved, I suspect there is nothing to support your argument. I'm not trying to say there was no noise but in reality, apartment life sucks and noise from adjacent units is not only common, it is considered normal. Only if it truly affects your ability to enjoy use of the apartment, and specifically during times of the day (night) where noise laws would typically come into play, you are expected to just such it up.

where does your roommate stand on the issue? Has he been forced to leave the apartment so as to be able to have a normal life?

 

[MAlandlordissue]

so, how much is your deposit (total between you and the roommate since you are presumably on a common lease)? Expect the landlord to take whatever rent is owed from that deposit along with any damages he can claim for.



You have no right to rent abatement, especially an amount of your calculation, for the issue at hand.



yes. If you do not and he files for an eviction, you will end up with an eviction on your credit record. That will make renting in the future difficult as well as being viewed as a negative to anybody reviewing your credit history for financial services.



no. You owe for the entire lease period which as you have stated ends in June.

You best have a legal basis for that argument but given the actual minimal amount of noise involved, I suspect there is nothing to support your argument. I'm not trying to say there was no noise but in reality, apartment life sucks and noise from adjacent units is not only common, it is considered normal. Only if it truly affects your ability to enjoy use of the apartment, and specifically during times of the day (night) where noise laws would typically come into play, you are expected to just such it up.

where does your roommate stand on the issue? Has he been forced to leave the apartment so as to be able to have a normal life?

The deposit is the first and last month's rent. So technically I already paid it, and the landlord is apparently okay with a retroactive deductive for the last month's rent. The issue at hand is primarily about the payment between November and January.

Also, I want to clarify, would the noise really be considered a "minimal amount"? I mean, I have literally moved my bed into the living room because I cannot sleep with the constant noise. I basically don't spend any time in my room because I can't do anything there. I can't study, I can't read, I can't relax, etc. If I wanted to, can I not legally just move out with the lease terminated?

As for my roommate, the noise does not really affect him. So it's mainly an issue for me.

 

[PaulMass]

Get yourself to a tenant's rights attorney. I suspect you'll be pretty happy with the results.

 

[justalayman]

MAlandlordissue;3326607]The deposit is the first and last month's rent. So technically I already paid it, and the landlord is apparently okay with a retroactive deductive for the last month's rent. The issue at hand is primarily about the payment between November and January.

Also, I want to clarify, would the noise really be considered a "minimal amount"? I mean, I have literally moved my bed into the living room because I cannot sleep with the constant noise. I basically don't spend any time in my room because I can't do anything there. I can't study, I can't read, I can't relax, etc. If I wanted to, can I not legally just move out with the lease terminated?

As for my roommate, the noise does not really affect him. So it's mainly an issue for me

that's what I mean by a minimal amount. While your roommate is unaffected, you want to argue it is so disruptive you cannot maintain a normal lifestyle. You want to argue you cannot even study in the COMMON living area yet your roommate doesn't appear to have an issue with it.



another problem you have here is even if you left, your roommate would either have to be on board with this and seek an early termination of the lease or simply put; he will pay what you don't.

another problem: you cannot unilaterally alter the amount of rent owed and you cannot engage in a negotiation without the roommate also being a party since the contract has three parties and each must agree to any alteration of the contract. While you may have negotiated a reduction of what you believe you owe (btw, each you and your roommate owe ALL of the rent. How you split it between the two of you is irrelevant to the lease), in reality you didn't negotiate anything from what I see since you do not owe only 1/2 of the rent but are liable for 100% of the rent just as your roommate is.


PaulMass:
don't be shy. If you have something then throw it out here.

 

[LdiJ]

that's what I mean by a minimal amount. While your roommate is unaffected, you want to argue it is so disruptive you cannot maintain a normal lifestyle. You want to argue you cannot even study in the COMMON living area yet your roommate doesn't appear to have an issue with it.

You are expressing the opinion that its a minimal amount of noise when you haven't heard the noise and therefore cannot have an informed opinion.

another problem you have here is even if you left, your roommate would either have to be on board with this and seek an early termination of the lease or simply put; he will pay what you don't.

Not necessarily. In many college towns in many areas, landlords rent by the room rather than the apartment. In other words, your lease gets you exclusive use of your room, and shared use of the common areas. Therefore his roommate could have a complete separate lease from his. Based on the way that the OP has worded things, it sounds like he and his roommate have separate leases.

another problem: you cannot unilaterally alter the amount of rent owed and you cannot engage in a negotiation without the roommate also being a party since the contract has three parties and each must agree to any alteration of the contract. While you may have negotiated a reduction of what you believe you owe (btw, each you and your roommate owe ALL of the rent. How you split it between the two of you is irrelevant to the lease), in reality you didn't negotiate anything from what I see since you do not owe only 1/2 of the rent but are liable for 100% of the rent just as your roommate is.

Again, see my comments above. You are right if he and the roommate leased the apartment together, with one lease. However that would not be correct if they had separate leases.

 

[justalayman]

LdiJ;3326658]You are expressing the opinion that its a minimal amount of noise when you haven't heard the noise and therefore cannot have an informed opinion

.I'm basing it on the fact the roommate, you know, the other person in the very same unit, doesn't have a problem with it. Courts tend to deal with noise when it is insufferable to the general public. They do not care to cater to those that are so sensitive a mouse fart is excessive noise.

Not necessarily. In many college towns in many areas, landlords rent by the room rather than the apartment.

Ok so let's disregard this the OP stated:

I rented an apartment with a friend for a year lease, starting in June 2014

how you get that is anything other than a single common lease is beyond me. He didn't say he rented a room. He didn't say he and a friend each rented rooms in the same apartment. He apparently felt no problem with moving his bed into what would be a common area, and as such prohibited, if he had rented a room within an apartment.



if the OP comes back and says he and his roommate with whom he rented an apartment for a year have separate leases, I'll reconsider that point but regardless, I don't think it's going to make a bit of difference.
but let's consider the source of the noise:

The problem I've been having is noise issues. It's NOT the neighbors who are loud - instead, there is an adjacent apartment that has ventilation/pipes (not exactly sure what) that is right outside my room and it causes a lot of noise

just what sort of noise are you imagining?

has he spoken to the neighbors to discover if they have a problem with this noise, in their apartment, that is so intrusive the OP cannot even remain in his room, which is on the other side of the wall? One would think the neighbors would be the primary complainant if it is so so bothersome.

additionally, realize that he has lived here for about 10 months. Would you stay someplace that you deemed uninhabitable for 10 months?

Would you even rent a place that has a noise so bothersome that you could not stay in your own room?

and notice this:

I told him I would retroactively count some of those months in the reduction of rent, starting in November (since I informed the landlord about the issue in late October).

he moved in last June yet he didn't seem to have a problem with it until November? If he did have a problem with it, (and it is so bad he thinks it should allow him to terminate his lease), why didn't he say anything until November?

 

[LdiJ]

.I'm basing it on the fact the roommate, you know, the other person in the very same unit, doesn't have a problem with it. Courts tend to deal with noise when it is insufferable to the general public. They do not care to cater to those that are so sensitive a mouse fart is excessive noise.



Ok so let's disregard this the OP stated:

how you get that is anything other than a single common lease is beyond me. He didn't say he rented a room. He didn't say he and a friend each rented rooms in the same apartment. He apparently felt no problem with moving his bed into what would be a common area, and as such prohibited, if he had rented a room within an apartment.



if the OP comes back and says he and his roommate with whom he rented an apartment for a year have separate leases, I'll reconsider that point but regardless, I don't think it's going to make a bit of difference.
but let's consider the source of the noise:



just what sort of noise are you imagining?

has he spoken to the neighbors to discover if they have a problem with this noise, in their apartment, that is so intrusive the OP cannot even remain in his room, which is on the other side of the wall? One would think the neighbors would be the primary complainant if it is so so bothersome.

additionally, realize that he has lived here for about 10 months. Would you stay someplace that you deemed uninhabitable for 10 months?

Would you even rent a place that has a noise so bothersome that you could not stay in your own room?

and notice this:


he moved in last June yet he didn't seem to have a problem with it until November? If he did have a problem with it, (and it is so bad he thinks it should allow him to terminate his lease), why didn't he say anything until November?

The OP is a college student. Do you really expect a college student to deal with things on the level of an adult who has some knowledge of the law?...and you are assuming that he did not address it with the landlord prior to November simply because his lease was prepaid up until November.

 

[justalayman]

The OP is a college student. Do you really expect a college student to deal with things on the level of an adult who has some knowledge of the law?...and you are assuming that he did not address it with the landlord prior to November simply because his lease was prepaid up until November.

yes, I do but in the real world, since they think the world revolves around them, I find that they scream about injustices that are simply manifestations within their own mind and as such, complain much more and sooner than a rational adult would.


I am assuming? Really? The poster said this:

starting in November (since I informed the landlord about the issue in late October).

I'm not assuming a damned thing. I am using the OP's own statement to come to the conclusion he didn't say anything until many months after he moved in.

but let's use your reasoning:

why wouldn't he say something prior to that time? If it is so bothersome that he believes he is able to terminate his lease early, waiting until his prepaid period had expired simply is ridiculous. There is no basis for even considering that is why he waited. After all, if it's so bad he wants to terminate 2 months early, why bother attempting to negotiate a reduction in the rent? Why not seek to terminate the lease then and there? His actions betray his ultimate goal and it really has nothing to do with being bothered by the noise.

 

[MAlandlordissue]

.

Does anyone else have an opinion? I'm not here to listen to ad hominem attacks about how I'm a selfish college student who thinks the world revolves around himself. I'm just interested in hearing in legal opinions from people who don't already think college students are irrational idiots.

For the record, I did not complain about the noise until late October because 1) the noise problem intensified in the fall (presumably something to do with the winter and using heat), and 2) I don't like to make a big fuss about trivial things, like minor noise issues. But when I woke up in the middle of the night three days in a row in my room because of the noise outside, I decided that that was a problem I couldn't ignore any longer.

 

[FarmerJ]

When you were woke up three nights in a row by disturbances outside of your apartment did you call the police to report the excessive noise or not ? If I were your LL my first question to you about the noise would be ` on what dates and times did you call the police so I can see if there are any police reports or do you already have them in hand ? then next thing would be to tell you ` call the police if there is excessive noise at night, because if you do not then I have nothing in hand to address the problem` last do you really want to find out what happens regarding SOME future rental application screenings that will happen when you seek other rentals if I had to take you to court & sue you for nonpayment ? or skipping out on rent you owed? (many landlords really don't give a damn why another landlord in a applicants past had to take them to court they will use that alone as the reason to refuse to rent to someone , WHY because if it happened once theres a higher risk it will happen again. You made choices not to address your concerns sooner in writing & using paper trails etc so you would be able to establish that you did formally complain so at this late point in the game Unless your LL is willing to let you out of the lease with out any kind of penalty I don't see it happening and you risk your LL taking you to court if you violate your lease term by vacating early with out paying.

 

[justalayman]

You couldn't ignore it...except for a price.

You could deal with it just fine as long as there was the belief there was a rent reduction. Suddenly when that is off the table the noise became so bothersome you have to move as there is no other remedy.


Think about that for a few minutes. Do you actually believe a judge will believe your argument as to why you bailed on the lease?


If the sound was unbearable no rent reduction would be adequate to compensate you. If it is unbearable now it was unbearable in October. You didn't attemot to terminate the lease then, your argument is invalid now

 

[justalayman]

I got a love note from the op

MAlandlordissue MAlandlordissue is offline
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spoiledcollegebrat
Hey,

I just wanted to let you know that my landlord caved and I paid him the abated amount.

So thanks you ****. I'm sorry that you're a 45 year old virgin who's bitter that no one likes him.

Oh wait, I'm sorry, am I making assumptions about people I don't know on the internet?


Don't bother responding. I'm not coming back to this site.
-Spoiledcollegebrat

 

[justalayman]

Of course the landlord "caving" doesn't have any legal meaning nor does it mean a court would have agreed. It simply means the landlord got tired of the whining and just let him go so that shrill girly whine would stop

 

[FarmerJ]

Justalayman yes this OP got lucky since it was more likely that the landlord decided to let it go and be done with the PITA factor. But at the same time I hope this OP understands that another landlord or party whom he enters into a contract with next time may not be so willing to look the other way and actually use every tool legally available to go after him including getting a Judgment and renewing it too so that the only way its gonna go away fast and easy is to pay it up or file BK.