A number of questions in regards to contentious landlords

[RhoH]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ny

Our landlords are first time landlords - the wife did not want to rent out her very lovely, million dollar, home - they use it only for summers and otherwise live year long in Manhattan. They have been offensive, hostile, manipulative and a lawyer has told us to prepare for a court battle to regain our $8,000 deposit.

They had decided to keep the dish racks from the dishwasher - we are not 'kosher enough' for them. They bought used racks from ebay - we cannot use, due to the fact that we are kosher and the ebay racks were used and not kosher. We've been told that, legally, the lease did not provide that they would be taking out the racks, and the husband said he'd return them. Their real estate agent (besides claiming my real estate 'lied between her teeth', which she most certainly did not) had left a message on my cell phone (which I have) indicating she and the wife were coming to return the racks to us. The wife then said over her dead body and bought the used ones off ebay - expecting us to pay. OK. We didn't pay, they didn't give us the old racks, I'm washing by hand and not too pleased...but life is short. (Lots of chipped and broken dishes. )

They asked if they could use a room in the basement for storage. Any furniture in the house we didn't want while we were renting (we had not wanted a furnished house - after we agreed to rent, the wife told me a numbe of times, "I don't want to have to do a thing," and she meant it) we were told to place in this room. Long story short - they then locked the room. Again, not provided for in the lease. We should have access to this room. Again, life is too short.

The wife has been contentious when there hasbeen any need for repairs. In the house no more than 10 days, it was obvious that the washer and dryer were in need of repair - as well as MOST of the light switches. She offensively insisted that we must have broken anything and we would have to pay for any repairs...though she eventually relented. Rather, her husband prevailed. While the electricians were repairing a broken bathroom heater, they tripped the fuse. After an hour of searching - it was discovered that the fuse box was in the locked room. The electrician insisted that it was a violation for us not to have access to that room - he unlocked the door and told us we had a right to have access to it. Especially since there are so many electrical problems in the house and the owners live an hour away and are not easily contacted.

Here on the forum, we've been informed that landlords need not leave access, and I'm questioning if this is true in all circumstances. In addition, the light switches continue to emit occasional sparks and have shocked my sons a number of times. There is every reason to believe that we will need access to the fuse box - as the electrician originally told us. The landlords called and the electrician's boss echoed the decision mentioned here - that a landlord need not provide such access in a home.

Again, there is no provision in the lease that they should have retained possession of that room, nor keep the door locked.

There is a provision in the addendum to the lease that the landlords included -that any damage to their belongings would warrant replacement. How far can this go? If we have made a scratch on a counter? If there is a nick in a tile? If there are (usual) marks on the wall (we have a cleaning lady who helps me every Monday - she assures me that I am keeping the house very clean) Must we pay for repair, replacement, repainting of such small 'usual' and common occurences?

The wife had viciously informed me that she had not totally changed a provision on the lease that she was supposed to at the signing. She had let me know that she purposely worded the lease so that they are only responsible for landscaping for 'the 2009 season,' and she told me that this mandates that we are responsible for the 2010 season, should we remain until the spring. My agent said that her ommision for the 2010 season means nothing - save that this woman was deceitful and manipulative and had no second thought about altering a legal document.

Any advice is welcome - and much appreciated.

Any advice is welcome.

 

[BL]

a lawyer has told us to prepare for a court battle to regain our $8,000 deposit

So you aren't staying and are preparing to move ?

Search this very forum for " Normal wear and tear " without the quotes.

The following incomplete list is intended as a guide to reasonable interpretation of the differences between expected wear and tear from normal residential use and irresponsible or intentional actions that cause damage to a landlord's property.

Top ones are wear n tear , bottom ones are damage :

Wear & Tear
Damages

Worn out keys
Lost keys

Loose or stubborn door lock
Broken or missing locks

Loose hinges or handles on doors
Damage to a door from forced entry

Worn and dirty carpeting
Torn, stained or burned carpeting

Carpet seam unglued
Rust or oil stains on carpet

Scuffed up wood floors
Badly scratched or gouged wood floors

Linoleum worn thin
Linoleum with tears or holes

Worn counter top
Burns and cuts in counter top

Stain on ceiling from rain or bad plumbing
Stain on ceiling from overflowed tub

Plaster cracks from settling
Holes in walls from kids or carelessness

Faded, chipped or cracked paint
Unapproved (bad) tenant paint job

Loose wallpaper
Ripped or marked-up wallpaper

Balky drapery rod
Broken drapery rod

Faded curtains and drapes
Torn or missing curtains and drapes

Heat blistered blinds
Blinds with bent slats

Dirty window or door screens
Torn or missing screens

Sticky window
Broken window

Loose or inoperable faucet handle
Broken or missing faucet handle

Toilet runs or wobbles
Broken toilet seat or tank top

Urine odor around toilet
Urine or pet odor throughout unit

Closet bi-fold door off track
Damaged or missing bi-fold door


Also:

[U]http://www.oag.state.ny.us/bureaus/real_estate_finance/pdfs/tenants_rights_guide.pdf[/U]

http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/attygenguide.html#1[/U]]NYC Rent Guidelines Board

 

[FarmerJ]

Call your city /county govt center to learn if there is a specific local ord or a state law or even a local fire marshal opinion that backs up your having access to the fuse box 24/7/365. As far as the houses electrical problems go use certified mail to the husband where he alone is the only one who can sign for it since the wife is not easy to work with and document your complaints in writting , IF they are ignored after a reasonable time then call building inspections. |RE the landscaping what ever the wife wants to orally add on , TOO BAD if the lease said your obligation to take care of the yard ended with 2009. My opinion is there should not have been any date mentioned re the yard if the LL wanted the yard work to be done any time it was needed for the duration of the lease. I too would argue dating it with 2009 means it ends with 2009 season , BUT now that its winter if you have to hire someone to do the driveway snow removal because you cannot or dont own a snowblower it would be unfair to expect your LL to do it for you. As far as the final condition of the unit I guess beside extra cleaning and very detailed photos with notes about each room and how clean it is will spare you alot of grief when the time comes that you do move , Im saying treat it hostile too, as if you know your going to end up in court having to fight for your deposit. dated pics are the best too. Dishwasher machine , Unless your lease promised you dishwasher racks that were clean enough to meet kosher standards you cannot expect them to be , I do understand what a kosher kitchen means , a friend from long ago educated me as to why they did dishes in three parts hence three dish pans for the sink but kosher standards has nothing to do with the dishwasher not working , if they replace the racks the LL has done the right thing. Now I find this interesting Judaism 101: Kashrut: Jewish Dietary Laws after seeing this > Kosher status can be transmitted from the food to the utensil or from the utensil to the food only in the presence of heat, (including hot spices) or prolonged contact< I cannot help but wonder why you cannot get several bottles of the HOTTEST pepper based sauces ,( or if your concerned about staining to use hot white sauces like extra hot horseradish or like what one can find used in foods from south east asia or other places, stuff thats SO hot you have to double glove incase one glove tears and use it to clean something that cannot be cleaned with blow torch !

 

[Who's Liable?]

NEC code MANDATES access to panels and breakers feeding the area occupied by tenants, UNLESS there is an on site management co. or person(s) who can grant access.

 

[RhoH]

NEC code MANDATES access to panels and breakers feeding the area occupied by tenants, UNLESS there is an on site management co. or person(s) who can grant access.

Is this true in New York. I'm not familiar with "NEC" indicates.

Thank you

 

[RhoH]

Burns and cuts in counter top


It does appear that there are more cuts, not just scratches, on the surface of what appears to be a formica counter. Both my husband and the woman who helps us clean insist the cuts were there. It does look like something sharp cut the counter - but we've not used knives in the areas we see these marks. I couldn't guess as to what would create these small gashes in the beige surface, exposing black material beneath. I've imagined moving appliances or some dish or cookware about, but nothing would create these gashes that appear. And small scratches...

I can only account for a small patch on the counter where we did begin to cut on a board that was too thin, otherwise, if these are, indeed, considered cuts, what would be our financial responsibility? Must we replace the entire countertop??

 

[RhoH]

Farmer, there are some substances/materials which are not able to be kashered, under any circumstances.

Koshering gets complicated. There are rules. Different rabbis can interpret the rules with certain variations, and thus you have some room....and therefore more source for conflict when the occassion arises - especially between two people sharing the same household for any amount of time.

Originally, we let the husband know we wanted this house because it was already kosher. (Just one of the reasons - it is a beautiful house.) When they discovered we were vegetarian, read 'dairy', they told us the dishracks were used for meat. Meat and dairy cannot be mixed. We said we figured we'd have to get different racks. Two things happend in the next few days - first, we found out that we could kosher the racks: If the racks are kosher to begin with, milk or meat, conservative rabbis hold that the racks can be koshered the same as they are during Passover - that is, the racks are cleaned, not used for 24 hours, then cleaned again - all at the highest heat. You had that part in your post. This we welcomed, because new racks cost over $400, and because of manipulations already begun by the landlord and their agent, we wound up paying top dollar for our rental. The second thing that happened is that the owners became argumentative and hostile, which included locking the door on the downstairs rooms, placing labels on cabinets and closets that they staked as their own and not to be touched.... and the racks went into that room.

The rest, I believe, I covered in my original post. They had agreed to return the racks - that was our last agreement. They changed their minds. I thought that our agreement should be binding. But I suppose it is not.

Which has led me to another issue - that verbal agreements in real estate do not hold any weight. Which would mean that they are in possession of a room and cabinets that are not in the lease. I wonder if this has any bearing on our rent?

 

[Cvillecpm]

What has being kosher got to do with the dishwasher racks? Get you own!

You can get into the locked room with a 9 year old and a credit card if you need access to the panel.

You want WAY TOO MUCH DRAMA IN YOUR LIFE!!

 

[FarmerJ]

Verbal agreements are worth the toilet paper they are written on, memory of them quickly disolves into he said she said crap. BUT with leases I take the stand that unless a LL reserves out ahead of time spaces/portions of a yard, garages , rooms, ETC by listing them in a lease as reserved then they go with the entire property for tenants use. How much longer do you have left on this lease ? I ask because I wouldnt be shocked if you decided to look elsewhere for another place , its likely that may be a better choice than putting up with the LLs wifes B E . BUT about the dishwasher like I said they have to supply racks other wise it is a feature that came with the home that should be useable and would press for the rack to be delivered. about the locked rooms again consider sending the husband a letter about the locked spaces and locked fuse box what part of national electrical code deals with... - JustAnswer Electrical disconnects must be accessible for emergency shut off. The NEC requres that service disconnects be accessible to the tennant for which they serve. If a disconnect box is locked it is not accessible.
NEC 230.70(A)(1) says the disconnecting means must be in a readily accessible location. If it is inside a locked box it does not comply.
NEC 240.24 (A) and (B) state that all overcurrent devices shall be readily accessible to the occupants.
If disconnecting means are locked they are not readily accessible to the occupants. If an occupant locks his or her own panel that is not a violation as they have access to their own breakers . In an appartment building it is not good to have locked panels as if an emergency arose and the occupants were not home to unlock a panel it could cause additional hazard to the building

Read more: what part of national electrical code deals with... - JustAnswer
Send that to the husband and remind him NO where in the current lease is any part of the homes spaces reserved for landlord use and if you do not get ANYTIME access to the fusebox you wont have any choice but to call inspections. Current damage you find /found in the home document it ( pics ) and see if polishing compounds will deal with the counter top scratches or search for someone who is a pro at hiding /restoring damaged counter surfaces. Again having your defensive hat on and taking steps to document the homes condition now can help you later on. Know of any local very talented handy people who could duplicate a wire rack from say number 8 copper wire or stainless steel for you ? Yes I am aware some items are truly a pain to kasher , which is why my friends wife left three dishpans out for dirty dishes and used her dish washer machine in their rental apt back then to store garbage bags and soap /cleaning supplies.

 

[RhoH]

Thank you, Farmer. Having the legal information does afford us the confidence to deal with these people. Otherwise, we had 'he said she said' from the electrician. Knowing we have a definitive right to access helps in our next communication to the owners.

Our lease is just until March - we can extend it to June if we need more time. We expect to leave here as soon as we find a home to purchase.

The kosher situation is hardly a bother. As I said, I'd rather save the $400 for the six to nine months total we'll be here. It was a matter of 'justice,' we had the right to the racks, they were going to give them back, the wife got pissy. Then it's a matter of convenience. I'd rather save the $400 then spend it on new racks since we'll never need them again.


I'd begun taking pictures since before we took occupancy. Some things are visible- some are not. I had not taken of the counters - hadn't noticed the marks, just overwhelmed and not sure what was there before. Will do that. It will be accusations - and as my husband said, he and our cleaning help believe the cuts (about 1/2 inch - 1 inch marks) were there before, so who's to prove otherwise?

Thank you, once again.

 

[RhoH]

What has being kosher got to do with the dishwasher racks? Get you own!

You can get into the locked room with a 9 year old and a credit card if you need access to the panel.

You want WAY TOO MUCH DRAMA IN YOUR LIFE!!

Cvillecpm, you're an offensive idiot.

JMO

 

[atomizer]

I know nothing about Jewish religion, but Kosher racks? I know of Kosher foods but I didn't know it extended to non food items.

 

[RhoH]

I know nothing about Jewish religion, but Kosher racks? I know of Kosher foods but I didn't know it extended to non food items.

The concept is actually very spiritual. Part of the concept of kashrut is that living things have essence, and the essence of a living thing can be transferred.

The dishes, etc, are integral to following the laws of kashrut.

For those who follow the laws of kashrut, therefore, it is not just a matter of eating milk and meat separately, but the dishes and pans and cultery, etc., must all remain separate, for the essence of the living animal is absorbed into the item. A plate on which beef was eaten would have the essence of a slaughtered cow - and that essence would be present if one were to place dairy on the plate - hence the unwanted intermingling that is to be avoided. (Especially for a vegetarian...)

Thus kosher homes will have sets of everything for milk and another for meat. You may see not only two sinks or dishwashers, one for dairy and one for meat, in a kosher kitchen, but you may have those who have two different kitchens in their home. Many homes include extended family, and you'll find a kitchen up stairs with one family, the other kitchen down stairs with the other part of the family. There are restaurants that serve only dairy and those that serve only meat. Hotels may have two different restaurants -at least two. And then when Passover comes - everything must be re-koshered, if it is able to be, and if not, it is placed away for the duration of the holiday. This is another topic.

Of course, for kosher vegetarians life is much simpler - only a dairy set is needed.

In our situation, there were complications because the owners of our rental hold to slightly different rules - but, when push came to shove, their rabbi did rule that they could use the racks after we did, via the same method of koshering that we would use, and thus there should have been no problem. The wife made it a problem. (Some items cannot be koshered if already used for totally not kosher food - rubber coated dish racks being an item that cannot. Some rule that if something is kosher to begin with, then it may be cleaned - under certain circumstances - at its highest temperature so that it can be koshered now to milk if it were meat, and vice versa, as well as koshered for Passover. Again, I'm offering basics here - there's more, of course. We could kosher the racks so we could use them for dairy, not absorbing the meat essence into our dishes and thus the food we eat - again, a spiritual concept - but the owners felt that we would then ruin their racks for their use.) We felt the house had a dishwasher that contained racks - racks we could, after re-koshering, use, and the wife took those racks when we had all agreed that they would leave/return them. The expense was not something we should incur - especially when we had let them know we chose this house because of the ease of having a kitchen that was kosher for us. And they had not written it into the lease. And especially since they had not held to the real estate published offering of terms of the contract, doubling the deposit we were to leave for the rental and demanding they leave their furniture - because the wife 'wanted to do as little as possible...." Therefore living with the day to day uber-care of their belongings. They had already been deceptive... We were already spending $500 more a month than we had expected...

Again - When asked, their rabbi had agreed that they could use the racks. She was just being awful. At one point we wanted to know our legal rights. Then, as I said, it was time to move on. I'd do dishes for six to nine months -that's an easy enough way to save $400.

Kashrut is abouting making moral decisions, every time one eats. So, it's been an easy reminder, on a daily basis, that we're trying to make choices that we've consciously chosen as important and healthy for us. So - washing dishes is now a daily reminder that we're trying to be healthy - mind, spirit - and moral - we didn't take the racks, which are just down stairs and easy enough to put into the machine. We didn't manipulate, go back on our word, we weren't deceptive, etc, as did/were the landlords.

Our choice is to try and move on...but I do want to live, not worrying that they'll come into the house any time they want and charge us for any thing that we are not responsible for.. and to know we have legal access to the fuse box (not having to 'break-in' to property we should have legal access to) - which would be a necessity, especially given we live in forested mountains. It just so happens that today was a 'snow' day, and some people are without power - originating from their own home lines or public lines that are down.

Whether taking racks that landlords feel are theirs and not for us to use, or opening a locked door that the landlords feel is theirs and not for us to open -tenants should not have to feel that they are being immoral, breaking laws or trespassing in their own home.

I hope this answers your question...

 

[atomizer]

Too much work for me. I would probably starve.