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  1. #1
    thesupertenant is offline Junior Member
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    Property Management Nightmare

    I am a tenant in Florida in a small apartment community. When my girlfriend and I moved into this community we were warned by friends and neighbors, even our landlord, about the property manager who was a bit over the top and vindictive.
    We took it to heart and tried to develop a decent bond with the manager, simply just to stay off the radar, and live normally.
    We purchased a dog, about midway through the lease. The dog was approved by our landlord, and breed fit all requirements of the association, the dog has never been an issue with noise, and we clean up after it regularly.
    Over the next few months our relationship with the manager was quite normal. We even had a roommate move in to the empty bedroom, and once again, went through everything necessary to keep the situation normal. A $100 background check, $50 for access to the gate (a remote and page number).
    Through the most of the lease, everything was phenomenal.
    A friend of ours who lives in the community invited us to a party at the pool area and cabana one day, and this is where the nightmare began. The party was a group of about 20-25 adults, maximum. There was alcohol provided by our friend, and they kept good track of respecting the policy of no alcohol in the pool area, and simply limiting drinking to inside the cabana. Other residents seemed not to be poorly affected as many talked with some of the guests, as well as myself, and were having a good time.
    The property manager showed up, and in a rage ordered everyone out of the area, citing that we were trashing the area and that everyone was excessively intoxicated. The property manager called the police, who arrived and calmly asked us to just comply with the managers wishes. Everyone did as requested as our friends were arguing with the manager, I informed one of the officers that i lived in the community, and if there is anything I could do to assist them or my friends, I would.
    The officers asked me to just remove some trash and a keg, and bring it to the dumpster and apartment. As I did this the property manager verbally attacked me, calling me names and telling me I was responsible for the party and too drunk to drive. I apologized for any misunderstanding and tried explaining what the officers had told me to do, but was met with more screaming when the police asked her to step away and let them take care of things.
    In the following week, i received a notice from the manager, saying I would be fined for "supplying alcohol in excess to the party" and also "not cleaning up and leashing their dog".
    This hit us as well as our landlord as a bombshell, as he knows we strived to do everything in our power to maintain a professional and freindly relationship with the property manager. Our landlord attempted taking the matter up with the manager, to which he didnt receive any reply. Finally, after attempting to patch things up ourselves and explain the situation we were informed that the manager would not let us renew our lease, and we must be off the premises by the day our lease expires.

    My questions are as follows:

    Is there any way to appeal this, without taking it up with the property manager, who refuses to handle this in a civil manner?

    Is it possible to renew our lease with the landlord, who is for us staying, and not have to answer to the property manager?

    My family has seen the letter and thinks that the manager stating that I was intoxicated, supplying the party with alcohol and not picking up after my dog could be taken as slander, as none of which are true. Could it?

    Any general advice would be greatly appreciated, as we love where we live, our neighbors and location, just need some help with the management. The crazy part is, MANY other residents of our community have had issues with the property manager, from things like pet issues, feeding the fish in our lake, grilling their dinners on the public charcoal grills (which have now been removed for no reason), as well as a parking policy that will only permit one spot per apartment, regardless of how many drivers there are.

    So I guess my final question is, what measures can I take to formally complain against the property manager, and possibly have them replaced?

    Thanks very much please contact me if you need clarification of any of the above matters.
  2. #2
    Cvillecpm is offline Senior Member
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    IMMEDIATELY - you and GF write a hand-written note of apology - not excuse and not defensive - to PM....nice note paper and HANDWRITTEN.

    You should NOT, repeat NOT have been involved with party with alcohol which was against the rules.

    Next time, INVITE the property manager to the party and make sure that you are not an organizer * only an invitee.

    A good PM is HARD to find so attempting to replace is not possible....PM is doing the job they are paid for and you showed poor judgement.
  3. #3
    Cheeseknife is offline Member
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    For future reference, a LL that tells you the PM is a nutcase is not someone from whom you want to be renting. It shows they don't control their employees, which from the sounds of this the PM here doesn't know her place. However, the LL isn't much better as he/she hasn't take steps to either put her in her place, or get rid of her.

    The LL is in charge, not the PM. So if the LL wishes to renew your lease then you should renew with the LL.

    When it's written it's liable, and even if it were you'd have to prove in court that it damaged you finanically and the specific amount of those damages.

    If you have such a large part of the community that is unhappy with the PM then why not arrange for a group meeting with the LL to voice your concerns? There's no such thing as a PM that can't be replaced. As the "customers" in this situation it's in the LL's interest to service your needs.

    Also, DO NOT write an apology note to the manager. An apology is an admission of guilt. If you did not host the party and did not supply any alcohol then you aren't the one responsible for this. Equally, if the property manager did indeed scream and you then the LL should make her apologize for her unprofessional conduct, or fire her on the spot. Again, if a LL cannot control his/her employees then that's not a LL you want to be renting from anyway.
  4. #4
    Alaska landlord is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheeseknife View Post
    For future reference, a LL that tells you the PM is a nutcase is not someone from whom you want to be renting. It shows they don't control their employees, which from the sounds of this the PM here doesn't know her place. However, the LL isn't much better as he/she hasn't take steps to either put her in her place, or get rid of her.

    The LL is in charge, not the PM. So if the LL wishes to renew your lease then you should renew with the LL.

    When it's written it's liable, and even if it were you'd have to prove in court that it damaged you finanically and the specific amount of those damages.

    If you have such a large part of the community that is unhappy with the PM then why not arrange for a group meeting with the LL to voice your concerns? There's no such thing as a PM that can't be replaced. As the "customers" in this situation it's in the LL's interest to service your needs.

    Also, DO NOT write an apology note to the manager. An apology is an admission of guilt. If you did not host the party and did not supply any alcohol then you aren't the one responsible for this. Equally, if the property manager did indeed scream and you then the LL should make her apologize for her unprofessional conduct, or fire her on the spot. Again, if a LL cannot control his/her employees then that's not a LL you want to be renting from anyway.
    Ignore the cheese.

    It is the LL that should apologize to the PM. I bet the apartment complex is running in tip-top order because of the PM's ability to keep the tenants in line. Get rid of the PM and chaos will surely follow.
    The LL is playing the nice guy routine in order to show empathy to his tenants. He should not have undercut the PM.

    To rent to OP behind the PM's back is to empower all other tenants to do as they wish since they can always sidestep the PM. The PM power and ability to control the tenants is derived from the LL's support in all matters of renting. He pays her to do the dirty job he is unwilling or unable to do.
  5. #5
    Cheeseknife is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska landlord View Post
    Ignore the cheese.

    It is the LL that should apologize to the PM. I bet the apartment complex is running in tip-top order because of the PM's ability to keep the tenants in line. Get rid of the PM and chaos will surely follow.
    The LL is playing the nice guy routine in order to show empathy to his tenants. He should not have undercut the PM.

    To rent to OP behind the PM's back is to empower all other tenants to do as they wish since they can always sidestep the PM. The PM power and ability to control the tenants is derived from the LL's support in all matters of renting. He pays her to do the dirty job he is unwilling or unable to do.
    I know, all the tenants are out to get you and are the scum of the earth who need to be constantly policed or they'll strip the wiring from your property and sale it for crack.
    Obviously, to anyone that thinks logically: a LL who warns potential tenants about the PM is one who clearly doesn't support the PM. As asinine as it sounds to me, I actually largely agree with you. The LL is playing the nice guy and maybe even wants the PM to continue her rampages because it's working for now and won't take any steps to correct these issues until half the property is empty. Of course, that's the lazy and underhanded way of donig things. Because as soon as the PM has built up enough of a reputation as a pyscho the LL will step in, fire her on the spot, and proudly put up "under new management" signs to fill the units back up.

    Of course, we radically part ways on the notion that tenants need to be "controlled" by an over the top pyscho pretending to be a property manager. Or the need for a PM's role to be that of the one doing the "dirty" work of being a nutcase.
  6. #6
    Alaska landlord is offline Senior Member
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    OK, I now found the time to reply.

    It is unlikely that the owner will fire the manager. Good managers are extremely difficult to replace. When considering the reputation of a manager, the owner has to look to the source of the complaint. Bad tenants will complaint while the good tenants are happy to live in a safe place with no drunkards passing out in the common areas during the weekend blowout. Tenants in general like rules only when they apply to someone else. If given the opportunity they will bend the rules and finally break them should management not address them.

    I just had a tenant deliver the rent one day late with a check that didn't include the late fee.
    What do you suppose will be his attitude about paying the rent if I allow him to get away not paying the late fee?

    Now since tenants talk, what do you think are my chances that other tenants will also be late next month?
    Last edited by Alaska landlord; 06-06-2009 at 04:54 PM.
  7. #7
    Cvillecpm is offline Senior Member
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    Cheezy does not "get" that the resident manager is an employee of the HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION and not an employee of the individual unit owner/landlord EXCEPT as that owner/landlord pays their HOA dues which pays the resident manager's salary in part.....OP wrote "....and breed fit all requirements of the association."

    Cheezy might want to read more and offer less advice that is not on point!!!
  8. #8
    Alaska landlord is offline Senior Member
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    MANY other residents of our community have had issues with the property manager, from things like pet issues, feeding the fish in our lake, grilling their dinners on the public charcoal grills (which have now been removed for no reason), as well as a parking policy that will only permit one spot per apartment, regardless of how many drivers there are.
    So, I guess many residents want to live in a nice clean well controlled community but be left alone to get as many pets as they want. Management can clean up after the dogs. They should be able to grill to their hearts content and the manager can clean the grills. As for the lake, management can deal with the floating over fed dead fish or floating slices of bread. And yes, if 3 or 4 people in a family have cars, they should be allowed to park wherever.
  9. #9
    thesupertenant is offline Junior Member
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    thanks

    for the replies.
    I appreciate everyones advice.

    CvilleCPM, I dont think inviting this property manager to a party would free me of any guilt in their eyes. An invitation would make me look even more like it was my party.

    It is extremely hard to convey this situation over the internet without using names and places. Recently, we have gotten a couple of residents together and organzied an email address and petition online to report good or bad experiences with the management.

    We will see how far that can take us in a HOA meeting. Some other things from the development is there are 150+ private renters documented, theres between 20-30 live on property homeowners 5 of which are board members, and the rest of the properties have been vacated due to all sorts of circumstances.

    This development is in a great area yet the word has somehow been spread to real estate agents, and possible tenants, that it simply isnt worth the hassle of the property manager.

    Renters have no voice at the HOA meetings, and are denied admittance. We are permitted to attend these meetings on our LL's behalf, with their written consent, yet not allowed to vote or bring up items on their behalf. I understand this is a private HOA and they can run it democratically or however way they see it fit, but dont I have any rights to voice my opinion about my living conditions in an open forum, not just voice messages and letters to the problem prop. manager?

    Things like this make me wish I had one of two things, money or a law degree.
  10. #10
    Cvillecpm is offline Senior Member
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    OP wrote...."dont I have any rights to voice my opinion about my living conditions in an open forum, not just voice messages and letters to the problem prop. manager?"

    NO - go buy your own property/condo and then you can pay the upkeep and be a member of the HOA.

    You still have not taken responsibility for being at a party that obviously got out of hand.
  11. #11
    glennair is offline Member
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    Me thinks tenants boozed up and makes troubles. tenants need find new place. manager mad and not renew lease.
  12. #12
    Cheeseknife is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cvillecpm View Post
    Cheezy does not "get" that the resident manager is an employee of the HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION and not an employee of the individual unit owner/landlord EXCEPT as that owner/landlord pays their HOA dues which pays the resident manager's salary in part.....OP wrote "....and breed fit all requirements of the association."

    Cheezy might want to read more and offer less advice that is not on point!!!
    Apartment communities do not have HOA's, if the OP is living in a rented condo he should have been clear on that point.
  13. #13
    Who's Liable? is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cvillecpm View Post
    You still have not taken responsibility for being at a party that obviously got out of hand.
    That a hoot! I had a good laugh at that...

    Soooo anytime someone goes to an event that gets out of hand, THEY need to apologize? Wow...

    PM is obviously out of control, ignore PM and resign with LL at your own risk...

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