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  1. #1
    Gill84ti is offline Junior Member
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    Sued for rent without a lease

    What is the name of your state? North Carolina.

    I moved in with a friend and his girlfriend on august 18th. I did not sign a lease, because it was only temporary until I found another place, or if she moved out (they broke up). But tensions got worse between us in november and december so I moved out december 16th. He is now sueing me on March 25th for over $2000 in compensation... Or back rent? He is claiming I agreed to an oral contract... And has a facebook message of me agreeing to pay rent. But he got into my facebook account, and copied messages between my sister and I, and could have easily wrote that message.

    Can he legally sue me for back rent? If I am not on the lease (only he and his exgirlfriend were). And I never signed anything, and his landlord doesnt allow sub-leases. Are facebook messages admisable in court? How can I defend this? What are my options?

    There are a lot more details to the back story between us, which would account for his anger, and need for retributions. But they are personal, and family aspects. Nothing I believe could count in a legal case... But he did abuse his ex-girlfriend on 4 occations. And the cops came to the house on November 10th when the neighbors called for his violence. He stole from a gas station... and slept with my married sister. So I left. I believe he is bitter because of all these actions. But the case is over money/retribution/rent. AGAIN::

    I was not a legal tenant
    I was not on a lease
    I signed nothing
    his evidence is a facebook message agreeing to rent, but he could have wrote, because he had access to my account.

    Should I counter sue? for mental distress? loss of job? school?.... thank you.
  2. #2
    FarmerJ is offline Senior Member
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    your living there with out a lease means at the best or worst you were a month to month tenant who needed to give a notice that met your states laws for month to month renters with no lease at all. SO before you moved in december did the written notice you sent via certified or mail delivery confirm meet your states requirements for month to month renters ? If not then you owe some rent . If you dont know what your states laws are try this link to see if it gives you the answer for month to month rental [url]http://www.ncdoj.com/DocumentStreamerClient?directory=CPTipAlert/&file=Landlord-tenant%20booklet.pdf[/url]
  3. #3
    COlandlord is offline Member
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    The "landlord" would also have to prove the amount (if any) of rent you agreed to. Can he legally sue? Of course he can...can he prove it? That will be up to a judge to decide.
  4. #4
    Gill84ti is offline Junior Member
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    I did not send a certified letter of notice to move. I just packed my stuff up and left. I was only there for 4 months, rent never was an issue... until i had an issue with him. I never agreed to an amount of rent. I never signed anything, or said anything otherwise. Only he and his ex are on the lease. How do i owe rent for a place I was "technically" not staying. Also can his facebook messages be his proof to a rent amount? What are my options?

    How can he be a tenant and also my "landlord" in a residence that does not allow sub-leases... also I was not a lease holder. He is sueing for an assumed rent portion that we never agreed to.

    Can I prove that he had access, and did get into my facebook account? Creating these messages? Can I also state that I left because of his aggressive nature, and actions...? Should I get statements from people?

    I'm going to speak with a lawyer next week... but i just want to get some preliminary information. thank you again.
  5. #5
    Alaska landlord is offline Senior Member
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    You were his tenant and if he has proof that you did pay him x amount for rent, then you have an agreement for a set amount of rent. You probably owe for at least a months worth of rent. Residency should be pretty easy for him to prove through your past mail envelopes or junk mail in your name.
  6. #6
    MIRAKALES is offline Senior Member
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    Thumbs down

    When the lease is in violation from the outset with unauthorized tenants matters become complicated.
    The fact is that all three (3) tenants were in violation of the lease when you were allowed to move-in without the LLís knowledge or permission. It is not surprising that the situation escalated with personal issues and moral dilemmas because none of the parties involved know how to respect agreements. This is the reason you do not respect one another. It is not clear what will happen in a court of law. The purpose of the law is to restore order. A judge will have lots of leeway in the decision making because of all the ridiculous and mitigating circumstances. Personally, I would not award any of you anything! Because you created the mess, you should be forced to deal with it. Straighten it out on your own. In your position, I would be embarrassed to enter a courtroom expecting justice. Taxpayer dollars should not be invested in this kind of PETTY CASH nonsense!
  7. #7
    Gill84ti is offline Junior Member
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    I agree this is petty. And I did not want or expect it to come to this. For those reasons, I left and severed all contact with any of the parties of interest. I only moved in for convience with school, and internship oppurtunities. I do not believe neither of us is innocent, but i do not feel I am guilty of back rent, or a summons to a civil case to be sued! That is ridiculous, and unnecessary. I am embarassed it has come to this, but I have legally done nothing wrong. I would never have let it come to this if he didnt abuse his girlfriend, and then puruse my sister. I think this is a very ugly, and disrespectful situation all around. But I do not wish to lose my side of the case. I wish to stay where i am (not living with him) graduate from school, get a good job, and be an active participant in society. This, what is happening today, is not what i wanted, or expected.

    But for some reason he feels it is necessary to sue me. So don't judge, be accurate in advice, legal consel, and otherwise. If I wanted a lecture on ethics, or morals involving this situation i would not have posted on this forum.

    thank you for the replies thus far.
    Last edited by Gill84ti; 02-29-2008 at 12:48 PM. Reason: spelling errors
  8. #8
    ecmst12 is offline Senior Member
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    Did you ever pay any rent at all? How much per month?
  9. #9
    MIRAKALES is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gill84ti View Post
    I was not a legal tenant
    I was not on a lease
    I signed nothing
    his evidence is a facebook message agreeing to rent, but he could have wrote, because he had access to my account.

    Should I counter sue? for mental distress? loss of job? school?.... thank you.
    These are not legal arguments. These are only excuses.

    I was not a legal tenant -- nevertheless, you were a tenant
    I was not on a lease -- this would be an admission of lease violation
    I signed nothing -- verbal agreements are legal and provable in this case
    his evidence is a facebook message agreeing to rent, but he could have wrote, because he had access to my account.
    evidence would be canceled checks, cash payments, last known address, no proof of termination, etc.

    Should I counter sue? for what? for mental distress? not possible in small claims court loss of job? unless he fired you, it is doubtful school? why not sue for the kitchen sink?

    These are not legal arguments. You probably should sue for a lack of morales and use the same for your own defense. This would be a more winnable case.
  10. #10
    Gill84ti is offline Junior Member
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    I never paid rent. I was only there for 4 months. Rent wasn't an issue until after the "questionable moral situations" happened.

    Can I be a legal tenant without a lease (or sub-lease)... when the rental contract says no sub-leasers?

    I thought verbal/oral agreements don't count in real estate or rental agreements in North Carolina... (must have a lease, signed something, etc...)

    Counter sueing was more of a scare tactic option... so that he may drop the civil case... because of the risk of greater loss... and embarassment.

    What is my strongest defense? (pretend im ignorant... i dont think "morales" will have enough weight)

    What is my order of operations from here on out?
  11. #11
    applecruncher is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gill84ti View Post
    And has a facebook message of me agreeing to pay rent. But he got into my facebook account, and copied messages between my sister and I, and could have easily wrote that message.
    What's this all about, abd how did he get password?
  12. #12
    Gill84ti is offline Junior Member
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    While I was in class one day he got on my computer, and copied messages between me and my sister. I'm not sure how he got into my facebook account.... maybe he guessed my password, or he figured it out another way. But he did get on my computer, get into my facebook and then copy my messages....

    and when he did that he could have easily sent messages, or changed something... or i guess anything really to my facebook account.

    Once his exgirlfriend told me he had access to my account i changed all my logons and passwords.
  13. #13
    MIRAKALES is offline Senior Member
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    The facebook issues are not a compelling legal argument. It only means that you need to safeguard your logins and passwords, as you did. Telling the court that a person accessed your online personal pages (without proof) will not change the issues regarding rent due or owed.
  14. #14
    Gill84ti is offline Junior Member
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    In his AIM logs to my sister he admitted to getting into my computer, and copying messages of my facebook account. Wouldn't that be proof to him being able to write a message stating rent owed. Again there are no papers, nothing formal, nothing... the only thing that ever said rent is that message. Which i did not write.

    How can he use a facebook message as a rental agreement? Why can't the AIM logs with him stating he got into my computer and facebook cancel it out?

    Without a lease, or any agreement (formal or casual) how can there be rent owed?

    ... I've never heard of someone, or a landlord sueing for back rent, without a lease, without a contract of any kind.... I could see eviction notices, and maybe property damages because there is physical evidence. But I don't see his case for sueing.

    What are my options for defending?
  15. #15
    ecmst12 is offline Senior Member
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    You don't need to have a written agreement for a tenancy to exist. However if you never paid rent, they may or may not be able to prove that there was a verbal agreement for you to pay rent. They CAN, however, attempt to sue you. They may not win, but anyone can sue anyone for anything they want.

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