Attorney Billing & Records Question

[KJHOOK13]

Ohio

Here's a billing question I have based on what my mother recently went through with her lawyer.

Lawyer accompanied mom to mediation session. Lawyer spent approximtely 3 hours at the session, at $300/hour, mom was billed $900, plus an additional hour and a half for travel time, total $1350 for just that day. Much of the session involved just sitting in a conference room with the lawyer, awaiting the mediator (who went back and forth between conference rooms) to come back in. So, during the 3 hours at the mediation office, maybe 1 hour total was spent with lawyer discussing mom's case with mediator, opposing counsel, and mom. The rest of the hours spent at mediation, lawyer was constantly using her Blackberry to send or respond to emails involving other clients obviously. So, how does a lawyer break those charges down? Or do they bill mom, and then bill the client who was receiving the emails from lawyer's Blackberry (while on mom's clock) also? Is it appropriate for mom to question this?

Secondly, mom is getting another lawyer as these high-dollar ones weren't all that effective. She has requested her total file, including notes the lawyers made during teleconferences with opposing counsel. Mom has no clue what was discussed or even if her attorney had her best interest at heart. The attorney claims only those records mom provided the firm will be returned to mom. Why would she not be entitled to all records, notes, etc pertaining to her case? She will need this going forward.

[Ohiogal]

Has mom paid her bill in full?

As for how the attorney breaks it down I do not know. Are you positive that the blackberry was OTHER clients?

[KJHOOK13]

Hi Ohio Gal,

(Knew I could count on you

Mom had given firm $3000 retainer initially. She received first statement showing activities but not how much time per activity. At the bottom it showed a credit balance of $687. Ok, then she got statement for May and it showed she owed a balance of $3,694.00. Well, mom thought all she owed was the $694., that the additional $3000 was to bring her retainer back to $3000 since that was in the agreement. But since she had informed the law firm that she would not be continuing to use them since she really wasn't too impressed, she sent a check for the $694.00 thinking that would take her balance to 0. Well, she got a call from their A/P department saying, no, that additional $3000 was actually BILLED hours. So after mom picked herself off the floor, she asked for detail as far as how many hours per activity had been tallied up. Plus, two different attorneys were working on it and she only contracted with one--I think one is a junior atty at $200/hour and the one she initially met with is $300/hr and they evidently "conference" a lot about mom's case according to what I saw on the statement. Will know more when each activity has an amount of time posted to it. Do attorney's bill in rounded up increments of an hour? In other words, say they spent 7 minutes talking to her on the phone, do they bill for a minimum of 15?

Ok re the Blackberry. Mom couldn't look over the attorney's shoulder to see exactly what she was typing and to whom, but there was nothing going on with mom's case that would warrant that. It was simply a waiting room type environment - no strategies discussed as it was simply supposed to be a let's see what the company wants to offer, then we'll discuss. Mom did say that the atty made a couple of calls back to the office to check messages and was told that a client kept calling and the lawyer said she had just answered (that client's) email.

When I looked at mom's statements, there's several notations where her attys had phone conference with opposing counsel (for the company) and she asked me why the attys said they would only send records back that she had provided them. I searched statutes and found no law preventing this from happening and mom told them she would not settle her bill until she had thoroughly audited it and was given everything in her file. But she doens't know how she should make the inquiry as to the billing when the atty was multi-tasking on mom's dime. Any input?

THANKS

[mtpockets]

It sounds like the attorney is billing a 48-hour day. Since you cannot prove how many hours she worked, as opposed to how many hours she billed, ask the attorney for a statement of what was accomplished.

[KJHOOK13]

Thanks, I did ask her for an itemized statement as to how much time spent for each activity - but as far as accomplished? As far as I can tell, not much. I will have mom put that in writing and ask.

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by KJHOOK13

Thanks, I did ask her for an itemized statement as to how much time spent for each activity - but as far as accomplished? As far as I can tell, not much. I will have mom put that in writing and ask.

You need an itemized statement AND a copy of her retainer agreement.

[Ronin]

In this instance, your mom is on the hook for the attorneys billable hours, more so than what was accomplished in that time. Those billable hours are the 3 for mediation and 1.5 for travel. If your expectation is the attorney will break down these 4.5 hours into smaller time slices for everything in between, that is pretty unlikely to occur. So the itemized statement you receive will not be anywhere near as itemized as you would probably like.

In this case its pretty clear that the attorney was on your mom's time, even if he spent more than half of it twiddling his thumbs, idly chatting with your mother, and playing with his blackberry or making phone calls while waiting for the mediator.

You can only presume, but not really know for sure, what the attorney was doing on his blackberry, and to what extent if any, he was communicating with other clients. You can be even less certain that any part of this time was also billed to another client.

Assuming he was only working on your mom's case, then he was entitled to the full 4.5 hours, regardless of what was actually accomplished in that time. As a practical matter, there is really no way you can prove otherwise.

While some upstanding attorneys would not bill multiple clients for the same time period, many more would... and do. It's not that uncommon for attorneys attending multiple hearings in court to overlap travel times and waiting times and charge these to more than one client. I believe even the most honest of attorneys get a bit jaded over the years and fudge a little now and then.

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by Ronin

In this instance, your mom is on the hook for the attorneys billable hours, more so than what was accomplished in that time. Those billable hours are the 3 for mediation and 1.5 for travel. If your expectation is the attorney will break down these 4.5 hours into smaller time slices for everything in between, that is pretty unlikely to occur. So the itemized statement you receive will not be anywhere near as itemized as you would probably like.

In this case its pretty clear that the attorney was on your mom's time, even if he spent more than half of it twiddling his thumbs, idly chatting with your mother, and playing with his blackberry or making phone calls while waiting for the mediator.

You can only presume, but not really know for sure, what the attorney was doing on his blackberry, and to what extent if any, he was communicating with other clients. You can be even less certain that any part of this time was also billed to another client.

Assuming he was only working on your mom's case, then he was entitled to the full 4.5 hours, regardless of what was actually accomplished in that time. As a practical matter, there is really no way you can prove otherwise.

While some upstanding attorneys would not bill multiple clients for the same time period, many more would... and do. It's not that uncommon for attorneys attending multiple hearings in court to overlap travel times and waiting times and charge these to more than one client. I believe even the most honest of attorneys get a bit jaded over the years and fudge a little now and then.

I am jaded Ronin and I do my dangedest NOT to fudge at all. Nor do I charge more than one client for the same amount of time.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Ohiogal

I am jaded Ronin and I do my dangedest NOT to fudge at all. Nor do I charge more than one client for the same amount of time.

From one jaded person to another, if my implication was that all attorneys do this, it was unintended, because this is not my belief. I have never had reason to question the honesty of any attorney I ever retained. But I never retained anyone who was not highly recommended and with a strong reputation in the community.

However, I believe a lot of attorneys do fudge a little, and some a lot. Simply because it is much to easy, and the odds of getting busted are far too slim. Two attorneys separately and candidly remarked to me that my ex's attorney was known for milking cases and billing multiple clients for the same time. Comments like that are pretty damning, and tend to jade one against some realities of this profession.

[justalayman]

so, to back to the OP's situation:

considering what was overheard by the mother

was told that a client kept calling and the lawyer said she had just answered (that client's) email.

whether the attorney bills the other client or not would be irrelevant, to me anyway, since the attorney was addressing another clients case and as such, OP's mom should not be billed for such time. If they bill the other client is up to them. I just would not believe mom should be billed for that time.

How would one address the attorney to let them understand they do not believe they are liable for any time spent addressing another case while they were billing them? and of course; is there any way to determine how honest the attorney is about spending time on another's case while billing them?

I also would like to hear your (O's) input on having to pay the second (junior) attorney for "conferencing" on moms case. It sounds like a built in scam to me.

[mtpockets]

also would like to hear your (O's) input on having to pay the second (junior) attorney for "conferencing" on moms case. It sounds like a built in scam to me.
__________________

Quote:

I worked for an attorney who reviewed everyone's time records once a week to see what they had been working on. He used to dictate "conferencing" time for each client--some time for him and some time for his subordinate.

Long-time employees used to joke about his 48-hour days. While he fudged more than most attorneys, my personal experience is that fudging is very common in the legal profession.

[You Are Guilty]

Recently, there was a prominent young attorney who was on his way to court to begin arguments on a complex lawsuit when he was struck by a bus. After finding himself at the gates of Heaven with St. Peter escorting him inside, he began to protest that his untimely death had to be some sort of mistake. "I'm much too young to die! I'm only 35 years old!!"

St. Peter agreed that 35 did seem to be a bit young to be entering the pearly gates and went off to check on his case. When St. Peter returned, he told the attorney, "I'm afraid that the mistake must be yours, my son. We verified your age on the basis of the number of hours you've billed to your clients. According to your time sheets, you're at least 108."

[OldandTired]

That has to be the funniest thing I've ever read!! well besides the Unca Jeffy stuff. I had to forward that to my Attorney. He doesn't have too much of a sense of humor. Let's see how this turns out for me.

[KJHOOK13]

Ok-Here's the gist. Mom hired this latest attorney to oversee an investigation being conducted by OCRC based on a charge of sex discrimination she filed last fall. The first lawyer she retained charged a flat $850 fee to "oversee" the OCRC investigation. After a couple of months, mom decided not to use this lawyer because the company started pulling more tricks out of their bag (she was still working there) and she wasn't sure this attorney was equipped to handle. So she let it ride with just counting on the OCRC to conduct the process (until yours truly) told her she needed to have legal representation because of stuff the company was doing to her which I thought could be considered retaliation. So she hired some high dollar atty out of Cincy that wanted a $3000 retainer to basically do what the first atty was going to do. Shortly after this, the company wanted to mediate. (The fee agreement was based on hourly charges and made with one specific atty in the firm that mom was very comfortable with.) A junior lawyer had been put on mom's case so when the junior lawyer ($200/hr) had to conference with senoir lawyer ($300/hr) it looks like mom got charged for this which I think is wrong. This was not even in court yet. Then company wanted to mediate which turned out to be a sham. Best case scenario, the MOST mom could have received had company accepted the lawyer's offer was $30K. Period. Company rejected and countered with $1500. Mom told her lawyer to reject as she would take her chances with the OCRC. OCRC conducted site visit to company and interviewed 12 of the company's witnesses (in the presence of the company attorney by the way); mom's attys not present. OCRC contacted (by phone)only 1 of mom's witnesses out of 6. OCRC found no probable cause. Atty's final bill: $8,500 for mom. Doesn't that violate Rule 1.5 of Ohio's Professional Standards for Attys?

[You Are Guilty]

Google "(your city) attorney fee dispute" and look for the local bar association link in the response. Click on it and look for the petition to file to start the complaint. Keep in mind however,

# Before a petition for fee dispute arbitration may be filed with the Legal Fee Dispute Resolution Committee, you (the client) must make a good faith effort to resolve the fee dispute with your attorney. You will be required to explain in your petition how you attempted to resolve the dispute.

# If you have not already received an accounting (i.e., a detailed statement of the time the attorney spent on your case with his or her accompanying charges) you may request one. An attorney is obligated to provide you with an accounting if you request it.

# Once you receive an accounting, you can review the individual time charges to determine if you still believe that the total fee is unreasonable. Remember that an attorney is generally entitled to be compensated for time s/he spent on your case, despite the result obtained in your case or whether s/he was discharged by you prior to completion of the case.

# You may wish to send a letter to the attorney requesting that the fee be adjusted based on the reasons you believe that the fee is unreasonable. You can reference specific charges in the accounting with which you disagree. You should keep a copy of any letter you send to the attorney in this regard as proof that you attempted to resolve the dispute with the attorney prior to filing a fee dispute petition.

# Even if you have already tried to resolve the dispute with your attorney without success, you may wish to send him/her a letter giving him/her in writing another chance to resolve the dispute with you before you pursue fee dispute resolution.

# Please note that if you wish to participate in the Fee Dispute program and you also wish to file a grievance against the same attorney because you believe his/her conduct was unethical, you must file the grievance first and wait for a final determination by the Certified Grievance Committee regarding the ethical issues. If, after the grievance process is complete, there remains an unresolved fee dispute, you could then file the fee dispute petition with the Legal Fee Dispute Resolution Committee.