How to deal with lawyers after payment

[betachains]

Over the years, I have utilized multiple lawyers. Unlike other professional services, I have had to paid them in full prior to any work ("retainers"). Not surprisingly, after full payment, emails are often ignored and phone calls are not returned. The exceptions are if future business is likely.

It seems like that many lawyers spend their time drumming up new business, and ignoring paid customers. I suppose that egregious offenses can be reported to the state bar after the fact, but in the meantime what can I do to get a "retained" lawyer to pay attention to my case or even just to talk?

 

[ecmst12]

Make an appointment.

 

[Ohiogal]

Over the years, I have utilized multiple lawyers. Unlike other professional services, I have had to paid them in full prior to any work ("retainers"). Not surprisingly, after full payment, emails are often ignored and phone calls are not returned. The exceptions are if future business is likely.

It seems like that many lawyers spend their time drumming up new business, and ignoring paid customers. I suppose that egregious offenses can be reported to the state bar after the fact, but in the meantime what can I do to get a "retained" lawyer to pay attention to my case or even just to talk?

Did your contract state that the retainer was payment in full? If they are not responding to you while your case is ongoing, immediately request your money back. If they are responding slowly (meaning it takes them a day or two or even three) that can be due to their caseload.

 

[betachains]

Did your contract state that the retainer was payment in full? If they are not responding to you while your case is ongoing, immediately request your money back. If they are responding slowly (meaning it takes them a day or two or even three) that can be due to their caseload.

It's half-and-half. Some contracts specify that the payment is for everything; others are deposits on which services are withdrawn. Not surprisingly, not a single retainer has had a surplus returned.

In my current matter, a few stiff emails from me finally got a response.

I understand that lawyers have to prioritize their time, but my cynical view (from multiple personal experiences) is that they spend most of it drumming up new business. I suppose that it is perfectly logical in a paradigm wherein they get the client's money up front.

What other professional services require full payment before any work is done?

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Zigner]

Not surprisingly, not a single retainer has had a surplus returned.

You are entitle to an accounting of how your trust account is utilized and a refund of any remaining funds in the trust account. If you are not receiving those items, feel free to make a complaint to the state bar.

I find it hard to believe that your money has just been snatched up or otherwise disappeared without a proper accounting time and time again.

 

[betachains]

You are entitle to an accounting of how your trust account is utilized and a refund of any remaining funds in the trust account. If you are not receiving those items, feel free to make a complaint to the state bar.

I find it hard to believe that your money has just been snatched up or otherwise disappeared without a proper accounting time and time again.

For retainers to which service are billed, there is of course an accounting. "10 hours reviewing documents, 3 hours research." The accounting always matches the retainer amount, at which point they ask for an additional deposit. I have never had any amount of a retainer returned to me.

You obviously have never hired a lawyer. Why do you keep posting on matters on which you have no knowledge? Not just on this topic, but basically everywhere on this forum.

 

[Ohiogal]

For retainers to which service are billed, there is of course an accounting. "10 hours reviewing documents, 3 hours research." The accounting always matches the retainer amount, at which point they ask for an additional deposit. I have never had any amount of a retainer returned to me.

You obviously have never hired a lawyer. Why do you keep posting on matters on which you have no knowledge? Not just on this topic, but basically everywhere on this forum.

Truthfully you are coming across as a jerk. You have been hiring the wrong attorneys. I have returned unused portions of retainers to my clients. If you don't agree with the accounting, request a breakdown of why it took that long. You have very little knowledge of this subject based on your post.
A retainer is to cover expenses and make sure an attorney gets paid something for their time. You don't like how it works, don't hire an attorney.
Hey Z, where did your post go? There was nothing wrong with it.

 

[betachains]

Truthfully you are coming across as a jerk. You have been hiring the wrong attorneys. I have returned unused portions of retainers to my clients. If you don't agree with the accounting, request a breakdown of why it took that long. You have very little knowledge of this subject based on your post.
A retainer is to cover expenses and make sure an attorney gets paid something for their time. You don't like how it works, don't hire an attorney.
Hey Z, where did your post go? There was nothing wrong with it.

Great, I will only hire the right attorneys from now on. I repeat: I have never had any retainer returned. I just took their word that they spend X number of hours reviewing documents.

 

[quincy]

Great, I will only hire the right attorneys from now on. I repeat: I have never had any retainer returned. I just took their word that they spend X number of hours reviewing documents.

There was nothing wrong with Zigner's post. I agree with him that, if you have a question about where your retainer funds have gone, you ask for an accounting.

There are "average" fees charged and average times spent for what an attorney does. For example, in your state, it may take an average of 10 hours to draft and file a motion. Look up the averages to see if your attorney is within that range. If your attorney is over-inflating his costs or the time spent on a particular task, it should be apparent after a review. This is what you can question.

However, from what you have posted here, betachains, I can see a possible reason why there is never any of your retainer money left to refund. You mention sending emails and making phone calls to your attorney. Every email that is read by your attorney will cost you money. Every phone call listened to by your attorney will cost you money. A reply email from the attorney will cost you money. A returned phone call will cost you money.

Many people who hire an attorney do not realize how these costs add up. Many people, once they get their attorney on the phone, will go off on tangents or start to chat. These tangents and these chats can eat up a lot of the attorney's time and can eat up a lot of your money.

Before calling your attorney, you should have the list of questions you want answered written out and in front of you. Stick strictly to these questions. When you get an answer, move on to the next question. Sometimes even scripting out your conversation in advance and timing yourself can help you see how much of the attorney's time will be spent. Figure his rate of pay and deduct the cost of the conversation from your retainer.

Certainly if you NEVER get a response from your attorney, and if you NEVER get an accounting of what is being done to further your case, that is a problem. But, especially if you are having problems with multiple attorneys, it may not be the attorneys that are the problem.

 

[betachains]

There was nothing wrong with Zigner's post. I agree with him that, if you have a question about where your retainer funds have gone, you ask for an accounting.

There are "average" fees charged and average times spent for what an attorney does. For example, in your state, it may take an average of 10 hours to draft and file a motion. Look up the averages to see if your attorney is within that range. If your attorney is over-inflating his costs or the time spent on a particular task, it should be apparent after a review. This is what you can question.

However, from what you have posted here, betachains, I can see a possible reason why there is never any of your retainer money left to refund. You mention sending emails and making phone calls to your attorney. Every email that is read by your attorney will cost you money. Every phone call listened to by your attorney will cost you money. A reply email from the attorney will cost you money. A returned phone call will cost you money.

Many people who hire an attorney do not realize how these costs add up. Many people, once they get their attorney on the phone, will go off on tangents or start to chat. These tangents and these chats can eat up a lot of the attorney's time and can eat up a lot of your money.

Before calling your attorney, you should have the list of questions you want answered written out and in front of you. Stick strictly to these questions. When you get an answer, move on to the next question. Sometimes even scripting out your conversation in advance and timing yourself can help you see how much of the attorney's time will be spent. Figure his rate of pay and deduct the cost of the conversation from your retainer.

Certainly if you NEVER get a response from your attorney, and if you NEVER get an accounting of what is being done to further your case, that is a problem. But, especially if you are having problems with multiple attorneys, it may not be the attorneys that are the problem.

Thanks for your advice.

Actually, my emails and phone calls to my attorneys are minimal, since I trust them to be the experts and do their jobs. I don't initiate chit-chat at all.

I do eventually get a response. Here is an example: I phoned once and emailed twice over 4 days just to get a receipt for my payment (no other requests or questions).

For cases on retainer, I do get an accounting. I think it is difficult to narrow down actual work done when it is labelled as "document review", "document preparations", etc.

As a legal-services consumer, not a provider, it seems to me that lawyers may help their future referral base by responding quickly to legitimate client questions (not frequent harassment or idiotic requests) and call clients with occasional updates even when there is not much going on.

 

[quincy]

. . . .For cases on retainer, I do get an accounting. I think it is difficult to narrow down actual work done when it is labelled as "document review", "document preparations", etc.

As a legal-services consumer, not a provider, it seems to me that lawyers may help their future referral base by responding quickly to legitimate client questions (not frequent harassment or idiotic requests) and call clients with occasional updates even when there is not much going on.

I think a lot of what you say makes sense, betachains.

It is often left to consumers to initiate contacts with their attorneys to see what is happening with their cases and get explanations for charges that are not clearly itemized and then question those charges that seem out of line.

I am not sure I have a solution to the problem, though.

 

[You Are Guilty]

As a legal-services consumer, not a provider, it seems to me that lawyers may help their future referral base by responding quickly to legitimate client questions (not frequent harassment or idiotic requests) and call clients with occasional updates even when there is not much going on.

1- What you may think is an idiotic request is the thing that keeps someone else up at night. You can't please all of the people...

2- Guess what happens when someone sees a bill for an email or call to say "Hi, nothing has happened"? Multiple that by 40 or 50 cases, and that's why it's not done, unless express (in writing) requested by the client.

With that in mind, there are bad lawyers, just like there are bad apples in every other profession. It's not exactly like there is a shortage of attorneys out there - surely you can find one who is better at customer service?

 

[Zigner]

Hey Z, where did your post go? There was nothing wrong with it.

It's back - I guess the powers that be were in agreement