Observers not allowed - CA Traffic Court?

[al91206]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I recently fought my traffic ticket in downtown Los Angeles Metropolitan Court (1945 Hill Street). I wanted to observe a couple of trials first to see some tactics to use to fight my ticket. Upon entering the court the bailiff immediately said "Check in here".

I said I wanted to watch and she ordered me out of the court. There was plenty of room. I thought courtrooms in California were open and accessible? I am totally understanding if the court were full of people fighting tickets, but apparently kicking people out who want to watch or loved ones / family members / friends of defendants are regularly tossed from the court by the bailiffs in that court. I tried 2 more and got the same treatment.

Literally I walked in quietly and like a hawk - the bailiffs (Sheriff's Officers) ordered me out (others as well).

Just wondering if this was legal?

If you're wondering how my trial went - the court had a power failure JUST as my case was being called (my officer did show up - CHP). My case was dismissed I found out later. =)

 

[quincy]

It's unusual but not unheard of for a judge to limit observers in his courtroom. If there are a lot of cases on the docket to be heard that day, for example, observers may be asked to step outside.

 

[Ohiogal]

It's unusual but not unheard of for a judge to limit observers in his courtroom. If there are a lot of cases on the docket to be heard that day, for example, observers may be asked to step outside.

Legally courtrooms have to be kept open to the public.

 

[quincy]

Legally courtrooms have to be kept open to the public.

Well, I hadn't really wanted to expand much on my answer and second-guess the actions of the bailiff without knowing the reasons for Al being escorted out of the court more than once, as courts generally do not tread on the rights of the public to attend public proceedings. Because of your comment, however, I will now.

The constitutional right to attend courtroom proceedings is not now and never has been an absolute right. Access to court proceedings can be restricted for a whole host of reasons. You as a family law attorney have probably had privacy concerns addressed with some of your cases which has led to hearings being closed to the public or you have had cases where restrictions have been placed on those who are allowed to attend. This is not uncommon with cases involving minors or sexual assault victims or during testimony by undercover police officers or when there are security concerns either related to the parties in a case or to the court officers (and the list goes on).

Facts of course matter - but both the public and the press can be legally barred from court proceedings when public policy dictates.

I cannot offhand think of any reason why traffic court hearings would have limited public access but I tend to doubt access was limited or denied on a whim of the bailiff. The power-failure issues that arose later could have something to do with it.

With all of that said, Al could have communicated with the court clerk to inquire. That would have been the best way to discover why he was not allowed to sit in the courtroom as an observer.

 

[CdwJava]

Are you certain that it was a Traffic Court room you were trying to enter? They also hold other matters in the courtrooms at the Metropolitan Courthouse, and those matters may have confidential elements to them. Civil, Juvenile, and Family Court proceedings are among those that can be closed to the general public, and if those matters were being heard, you might have been excluded.

Were you bringing in recording equipment or otherwise refuse to comply with some direction of courtroom staff with regard to clothing or possessions?

Ultimately, if you feel that you were unfairly denied access, you can complain to the Clerk's office or maybe to the office of the presiding judge.

 

[quincy]

I tend to think there is far more to Al's story than what has been mentioned here.

 

[CdwJava]

I tend to think there is far more to Al's story than what has been mentioned here.

I suspect that is true.

 

[al91206]

I tend to think there is far more to Al's story than what has been mentioned here.

LOL - no sorry. Nothing other than going into Departments 70, 61 and 63 - ALL of which had strict rules on visitors. Didn't mean to make you think it was only I being asked to leave - it was anyone "without business with the court".

True, I could have asked the court clerk - but 1. I'm not a lawyer and *thought* it was a rule that they be kept open and a BIG #2: I also did not want to 2nd guess the court bailiff.

I'm POSITIVE it was traffic court - there was not family trials or anything going on. Personally I think it's just because of the mass of people (some not so smart) who fray their nerves, they simply want complete control of the courtroom (which I can understand).

At any rate - now I know the answer and should I want to watch I'll let the clerk know.

 

[quincy]

LOL - no sorry. Nothing other than going into Departments 70, 61 and 63 - ALL of which had strict rules on visitors. Didn't mean to make you think it was only I being asked to leave - it was anyone "without business with the court".

True, I could have asked the court clerk - but 1. I'm not a lawyer and *thought* it was a rule that they be kept open and a BIG #2: I also did not want to 2nd guess the court bailiff.

I'm POSITIVE it was traffic court - there was not family trials or anything going on. Personally I think it's just because of the mass of people (some not so smart) who fray their nerves, they simply want complete control of the courtroom (which I can understand).

At any rate - now I know the answer and should I want to watch I'll let the clerk know.

So, it remains a mystery.

My best guess, especially if observers were being asked to leave more than one courtroom, is that there was a building issue of some sort (which resulted in the later power outage) and courtroom access was being limited or denied for safety reasons.

As a side note, you are smart to sit in on a few hearings prior to your own hearing, to observe the judge and how he handles traffic court matters in other cases.