When state court judges ignore the US Constitution and US Supreme Court case law

[justmore]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Mississippi

What, if anything, can be done when judges in the highest courts in a state issue rulings that explicitly contradict and outright defy the US Constitution and the US Supreme Court, other than, of course, just appealing the case to the Supreme Court and hoping they are ticked off enough about being outright defied that they do something about it?

i.e. The US Supreme Court has repeatedly issued rulings in several cases over the past 20-30 years that "X" is explicitly required for an action to be constitutional, Federal courts and the highest courts in other states have cited these cases to also issue recent rulings that "X" is required for an action to be constitutional, yet the courts in one state, in one case, completely ignore all of this, and issue a ruling that the same exact action, without "X", is legal under a (misinterpretation of) state law.

And no, I'm not making this up as a hypothetical situation. A court really did do this, and in writing.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Mississippi

What, if anything, can be done when judges in the highest courts in a state issue rulings that explicitly contradict and outright defy the US Constitution and the US Supreme Court, other than, of course, just appealing the case to the Supreme Court and hoping they are ticked off enough about being outright defied that they do something about it?

i.e. The US Supreme Court has repeatedly issued rulings in several cases over the past 20-30 years that "X" is explicitly required for an action to be constitutional, Federal courts and the highest courts in other states have cited these cases to also issue recent rulings that "X" is required for an action to be constitutional, yet the courts in one state, in one case, completely ignore all of this, and issue a ruling that the same exact action, without "X", is legal under a (misinterpretation of) state law.

And no, I'm not making this up as a hypothetical situation. A court really did do this, and in writing.

You can contact the Mississippi Commission on Judicial Performance at 601-359-1273 or visit their website to file a complaint: http://www.judicialperformance.ms.gov/Pages/Complaint.aspx

You can also contact the American Civil Liberties Union of Mississippi: http://www.aclu-ms.org/

For reference purposes, the following is a link to justmore's other thread which also addresses the issue he is concerned about here: https://forum.freeadvice.com/us-supreme-court-constitution-25/petition-writ-certiorari-state-courts-u-s-supreme-court-609213.html

Could you please provide some of these rulings where "X is required for an action to be constitutional," and can you please tell us what "X" is? Knowing this can perhaps help us help you better.

 

[justmore]

You can contact the Mississippi Commission on Judicial Performance at 601-359-1273 or visit their website to file a complaint: http://www.judicialperformance.ms.gov/Pages/Complaint.aspx

You can also contact the American Civil Liberties Union of Mississippi: http://www.aclu-ms.org/

Could you please provide some of these rulings where "X is required for an action to be constitutional," and can you please tell us what "X" is? Knowing this can perhaps help us help you better.

I'm aware of the MCJP and the ACLU, but the MCJP is more or less an organization that takes complaints and after months and years of review, makes suggestions to the MS courts, which isn't much use anyway, as complaining to the top courts about their own behavior isn't likely to amount to anything, and the ACLU is only useful if they are interested in the particular case or constitutional violation that occurred. At this time, the ACLU in MS is preoccupied with voting rights and issues in the upcoming midterm elections and not much else, and this case concerns constitutional rights but not voting rights.

Are there any type of quicker, emergency-type measures for the Federal government to take when state courts abuse their power? I realize the legal system is a slow-moving thing and judges have just about absolute immunity for anything they do, but surely there is some kind of solution when state judges and courts abuse their power in such a blatant manner and completely ignore all prior Federal law and legal precedent in order to reach a desired conclusion.

I'd prefer not to get too specific, even having to give away my state of residence gives away more specific info than I would like to have out there on the internet at this time. I have already been repeatedly attacked, harassed, and threatened for continuing to pursue this case, which will likely expose a lot of corruption in the state legal system and law enforcement agencies, which is part of the reason for the court acting as it did in this case. I realize that sounds paranoid and melodramatic, but it's the truth.

 

[ecmst12]

Duplicate post

 

[quincy]

I'm aware of the MCJP and the ACLU, but the MCJP is more or less an organization that takes complaints and after months and years of review, makes suggestions to the MS courts, which isn't much use anyway, as complaining to the top courts about their own behavior isn't likely to amount to anything, and the ACLU is only useful if they are interested in the particular case or constitutional violation that occurred. At this time, the ACLU in MS is preoccupied with voting rights and issues in the upcoming midterm elections and not much else, and this case concerns constitutional rights but not voting rights.

Are there any type of quicker, emergency-type measures for the Federal government to take when state courts abuse their power? I realize the legal system is a slow-moving thing and judges have just about absolute immunity for anything they do, but surely there is some kind of solution when state judges and courts abuse their power in such a blatant manner and completely ignore all prior Federal law and legal precedent in order to reach a desired conclusion.

I'd prefer not to get too specific, even having to give away my state of residence gives away more specific info than I would like to have out there on the internet at this time. I have already been repeatedly attacked, harassed, and threatened for continuing to pursue this case, which will likely expose a lot of corruption in the state legal system and law enforcement agencies, which is part of the reason for the court acting as it did in this case. I realize that sounds paranoid and melodramatic, but it's the truth.

Well, then, no.

There does not appear to be a quicker, emergency-type of measure available for you to take, based on the dearth of information you have provided. If you are not willing to explore the avenues that ARE open to you because you feel contacting the resources provided will lead to dead-ends, then I am afraid you are out of luck.

Certainly there does not appear to be anything more a forum can do for you as far as your concerns in this particular thread.

Sorry.

 

[justmore]

Well, then, no.

There does not appear to be a quicker, emergency-type of measure available for you to take, based on the dearth of information you have provided. If you are not willing to explore the avenues that ARE open to you because you feel contacting the resources provided will lead to dead-ends, then I am afraid you are out of luck.

Certainly there does not appear to be anything more a forum can do for you as far as your concerns in this particular thread.

Sorry.

As I explained, those avenues you suggested are not really open. The MCJP has no legal authority above that of the judges, and the judges certainly aren't going to decide to punish themselves for their own actions. I do plan to file complaints against all involved once this is over, but at this time, it will give no remedy. The ACLU is simply a private legal entity, and currently preoccupied with the midterm election and voting rights issues in the state. I cannot force them to take legal action or an interest in this case, and they are powerless to do much else than simply file a legal appeal.

My query was more about what current, active measures can be taken, i.e. how to notify and involve the Federal government of what illegal and unconstitutional actions a state court is doing.

Hopefully others might have additional suggestions.

 

[quincy]

As I explained, those avenues you suggested are not really open. The MCJP has no legal authority above that of the judges, and the judges certainly aren't going to decide to punish themselves for their own actions. I do plan to file complaints against all involved once this is over, but at this time, it will give no remedy. The ACLU is simply a private legal entity, and currently preoccupied with the midterm election and voting rights issues in the state. I cannot force them to take legal action or an interest in this case, and they are powerless to do much else than simply file a legal appeal.

My query was more about what current, active measures can be taken, i.e. how to notify and involve the Federal government of what illegal and unconstitutional actions a state court is doing.

Hopefully others might have additional suggestions.

Okay. If you say the MCJP and the ACLU cannot help, so be it. You happen to be wrong about what they will and won't do, and I would think if your case shows such a blatant disregard of the law and the constitution that they would be interested in hearing from you, but ...

I suggest you pick a thread and stick with it now. I still don't see a forum as being of much help to you if you are unable to even disclose the previous cases where X has played such an important role. Perhaps finding an attorney in your area where all facts can be disclosed is your best course of action at this point - or contact the media. They love to hear about cases such as yours.

Good luck.

 

[justmore]

Okay. If you say the MCJP and the ACLU cannot help, so be it. You happen to be wrong about what they will and won't do, and I would think if your case shows such a blatant disregard of the law and the constitution that they would be interested in hearing from you, but ...

I suggest you pick a thread and stick with it now. I still don't see a forum as being of much help to you if you are unable to even disclose the previous cases where X has played such an important role. Perhaps finding an attorney in your area where all facts can be disclosed is your best course of action at this point - or contact the media. They love to hear about cases such as yours.

You might be under the wrong impression as to what the MCJP can do. It merely accepts complaints and then makes suggestions to the highest court in the state about what should be done in cases of judges who commit crimes or otherwise behave badly in public. It it powerless to force the courts to do anything, and even lower court judges who are severely punished receive little more than a negative mark on their record and a $500 fine. The MCJP suggesting to the highest court judges that they punish and fine themselves is going to be, at the least, quite laughable. The ACLU here is a tiny, underfunded organization with limited resources, that has a very narrow focus on the cases it chooses. While it does outsource some select cases to other attorneys, they are usually hot issues like racial discrimination or freedom of speech. While the much larger ACLU organizations in other states take on a wide variety of cases involving constitutional rights, the ACLU in this state has not done so, to the detriment of many constitutional rights so far.

I have contacted several attorneys and do plan to appeal the case and do whatever it takes to uphold the constitutional rights of the citizens of this state, but even they are blown away, as usually the courts are a bit more subtle when ignoring the constitution or other court rulings to reach a particular conclusion. I suppose in this case there wasn't much choice as the argument and the issues were pretty clear.

I may also contact the media at some point, though that might not do much. The issues in this case are those that people misunderstand and simply take for granted, and it will only be when going to court or filing appeals that the constitutional rights people thought they had will be shown to have been taken away. Also, the people in this state seem pretty used to being trampled on by their government and the courts. They are weary and tired, and seem content to wait and hope for someone else to do something about it.

This thread is more about what actions can be taken, the other thread has to do with technical questions about a cert petition. Two different issues, even though they concern the same case, hence they are in different subforums.

 

[quincy]

You might be under the wrong impression as to what the MCJP can do. It merely accepts complaints and then makes suggestions to the highest court in the state about what should be done in cases of judges who commit crimes or otherwise behave badly in public. It it powerless to force the courts to do anything, and even lower court judges who are severely punished receive little more than a negative mark on their record and a $500 fine. The MCJP suggesting to the highest court judges that they punish and fine themselves is going to be, at the least, quite laughable. The ACLU here is a tiny, underfunded organization with limited resources, that has a very narrow focus on the cases it chooses. While it does outsource some select cases to other attorneys, they are usually hot issues like racial discrimination or freedom of speech. While the much larger ACLU organizations in other states take on a wide variety of cases involving constitutional rights, the ACLU in this state has not done so, to the detriment of many constitutional rights so far.

I have contacted several attorneys and do plan to appeal the case and do whatever it takes to uphold the constitutional rights of the citizens of this state, but even they are blown away, as usually the courts are a bit more subtle when ignoring the constitution or other court rulings to reach a particular conclusion. I suppose in this case there wasn't much choice as the argument and the issues were pretty clear.

I may also contact the media at some point, though that might not do much. The issues in this case are those that people misunderstand and simply take for granted, and it will only be when going to court or filing appeals that the constitutional rights people thought they had will be shown to have been taken away. Also, the people in this state seem pretty used to being trampled on by their government and the courts. They are weary and tired, and seem content to wait and hope for someone else to do something about it.

This thread is more about what actions can be taken, the other thread has to do with technical questions about a cert petition. Two different issues, even though they concern the same case, hence they are in different subforums.

I recommend you keep all of questions regarding this same issue in the same thread. They are related and you do not need two threads for related questions on the same issue. Pick one of your threads, please. Thank you.

However, you are being too vague and mysterious for anyone to provide you with good advice and direction. What has been provided you by the forum members in this thread and in your other thread is getting dismissed by you, with all sorts of excuses (some that are questionable at best).

Whatever the case, without any specifics given by you, detailing what "X" is and why you believe there is an abuse of power by the courts and the judges in your case, and corruption in the legal system and corruption in law enforcement as it concerns your case, you are coming across as you feared you might - paranoid and melodramatic.

Because it is becoming obvious that we are not meeting your needs, I recommend you consult with an attorney in your area.

Good luck.

 

[justmore]

I recommend you keep all of questions regarding this same issue in the same thread. They are related and you do not need two threads for related questions on the same issue. Pick one of your threads, please. Thank you.

However, you are being too vague and mysterious for anyone to provide you with good advice and direction. What has been provided you by the forum members in this thread and in your other thread is getting dismissed by you, with all sorts of excuses (some that are questionable at best).

Whatever the case, without any specifics given by you, detailing what "X" is and why you believe there is an abuse of power by the courts and the judges in your case, and corruption in the legal system and corruption in law enforcement as it concerns your case, you are coming across as you feared you might - paranoid and melodramatic.

Because it is becoming obvious that we are not meeting your needs, I recommend you consult with an attorney in your area.

Good luck.

Like I stated in my previous post, this thread is a seperate topic, concerning what can be done about a state court defying constitutional and case law, hence it is in the correct forum for legal ethics. The other thread is about a cert petition to the US Supreme Court, hence it is in the US Supreme Court thread. I would guess that if the site was set up for discussion of all issues of particular cases in one thread, it would be set up that way, without subforums for various aspects.

While I appreciate your many responses, if you feel you cannot meet the needs of those who are posting, I suggest you allow others to reply instead.

Thanks again.

 

[TigerD]

Like I stated in my previous post, this thread is a seperate topic, concerning what can be done about a state court defying constitutional and case law, hence it is in the correct forum for legal ethics. The other thread is about a cert petition to the US Supreme Court, hence it is in the US Supreme Court thread. I would guess that if the site was set up for discussion of all issues of particular cases in one thread, it would be set up that way, without subforums for various aspects.

While I appreciate your many responses, if you feel you cannot meet the needs of those who are posting, I suggest you allow others to reply instead.

Thanks again.

From one of the others:

Keep your questions to a single thread to get effective answers.
While I appreciate your posting, if you feel you cannot or will not conform to the culture, standards, and practices of the board, I suggest you try hiring an attorney for your advice.

Thanks.

DC

 

[justmore]

Keep your questions to a single thread to get effective answers.
While I appreciate your posting, if you feel you cannot or will not conform to the culture, standards, and practices of the board, I suggest you try hiring an attorney for your advice.

Uh, maybe you haven't noticed, but the culture, standards, and practices of this board are laid out according to topics and subforums. While asking all questions about once particular case might be the norm on some legal advice boards, that doesn't seem to be the case here, as much as a few certain people are trying to push that. If it were, like I said, there would not be subforums for such specific topics. As I've stated already, my general questions, while both related to the same case, are about completely seperate topics, and so are posted in the correct subforums for those particular topics. I'm not asking for legal advice on a case, I'm asking general legal questions without getting into the specifics of a case.

Really, it seems like some members on this board want to pretend they are moderators, when they are nothing more than trolls. Helpful advice is one thing, just telling people to do what you want because you want it is childish and immature.

If you want to post answers or helpful information, please do, but if your only reply is snark or complaining about how people use the message board as it was designed rather than how you would prefer it to be organized, just go away and let others who want to post answers and helpful information post instead.

Maybe that seems a little harsh, but geez, the majority of posts on this board are from the same members with tens of thousands of posts who apparently do nothing all day but whine about how people post multiple questions in the correct subforums rather than stick all their questions in one post. If you feel that strongly about it, petition the site owner to change the format.

 

[justalayman]

justmore;3293237]Uh, maybe you haven't noticed, but the culture, standards, and practices of this board are laid out according to topics and subforums. While asking all questions about once particular case might be the norm on some legal advice boards, that doesn't seem to be the case here, as much as a few certain people are trying to push that

.so you are going to lecture members that have been posting for years and have thousands of posts on the typical practices and etiquette of this forum? Seriously dude, you are way off the mark here.

If it were, like I said, there would not be subforums for such specific topics. As I've stated already, my general questions, while both related to the same case, are about completely seperate topics, and so are posted in the correct subforums for those particular topics. I'm not asking for legal advice on a case, I'm asking general legal questions without getting into the specifics of a case.

but they are so interrelated with common information that it causes confusion to make two threads.

Really, it seems like some members on this board want to pretend they are moderators, when they are nothing more than trolls. Helpful advice is one thing, just telling people to do what you want because you want it is childish and immature.

I see it as new poster coming here and attempting to tell those that have been here for years how the forum operates and then throwing a tantrum when gently informed how the forum generally operates is childish and immature.\

If you want to post answers or helpful information, please do, but if your only reply is snark or complaining about how people use the message board as it was designed rather than how you would prefer it to be organized, just go away and let others who want to post answers and helpful information post instead.

or how about you use it as it has been used for years or risk being seen as a troll yourself?

Maybe that seems a little harsh, but geez, the majority of posts on this board are from the same members with tens of thousands of posts who apparently do nothing all day but whine about how people post multiple questions in the correct subforums rather than stick all their questions in one post

so you feel whining when having only 5 or so posts is a good way to present yourself in your debut?.

If you feel that strongly about it, petition the site owner to change the format

why? It works just fine in the manner it is operated now.

 

[quincy]

You might be under the wrong impression as to what the MCJP can do. It merely accepts complaints and then makes suggestions to the highest court in the state about what should be done in cases of judges who commit crimes or otherwise behave badly in public. It it powerless to force the courts to do anything, and even lower court judges who are severely punished receive little more than a negative mark on their record and a $500 fine. The MCJP suggesting to the highest court judges that they punish and fine themselves is going to be, at the least, quite laughable. The ACLU here is a tiny, underfunded organization with limited resources, that has a very narrow focus on the cases it chooses. While it does outsource some select cases to other attorneys, they are usually hot issues like racial discrimination or freedom of speech. While the much larger ACLU organizations in other states take on a wide variety of cases involving constitutional rights, the ACLU in this state has not done so, to the detriment of many constitutional rights so far.

In 2013, the Mississippi Commission on Judicial Performance received 255 complaints against Mississippi judges. The sources of the complaints were from litigants, citizens, attorneys, law enforcement officers, public officials, a judge, and even the MCJP. Of the complaints, 132 were found to have no merit. Resolutions on the rest: public reprimands with fines (far higher, by the way, than your guess of $500) and costs, and one recommended removal from office. If you think a public reprimand is "quite laughable," you do not know anything about the legal profession.

In 2013 and 2014, and as small and underfunded as Mississippi's ACLU might be, it handled among other cases a religious rights case (Sikh apparel) and a same-sex couple case (recording marriage licenses).

But you are right that the ACLU is selective in the cases it chooses.

So, it is important to note, are attorneys.

And, for that matter and perhaps even more selective than the others, is the USSC. If you don't have a case that is compelling enough to interest the ACLU or attorneys in your area, there is little chance the USSC will be interested.

It is really too bad that you chose to treat the volunteers on this forum with rudeness because the forum members are a great source of information when they want to provide it. But, like all of the others mentioned above, we can select who to help.

 

[justmore]

In 2013, the Mississippi Commission on Judicial Performance received 255 complaints against Mississippi judges. The sources of the complaints were from litigants, citizens, attorneys, law enforcement officers, public officials, a judge, and even the MCJP. Of the complaints, 132 were found to have no merit. Resolutions on the rest: public reprimands with fines (far higher, by the way, than your guess of $500) and costs, and one recommended removal from office. If you think a public reprimand is "quite laughable," you do not know anything about the legal profession.

In 2013 and 2014, and as small and underfunded as Mississippi's ACLU might be, it handled among other cases a religious rights case (Sikh apparel) and a same-sex couple case (recording marriage licenses).

But you are right that the ACLU is selective in the cases it chooses.

So, it is important to note, are attorneys.

And, for that matter and perhaps even more selective than the others, is the USSC. If you don't have a case that is compelling enough to interest the ACLU or attorneys in your area, there is little chance the USSC will be interested.

It is really too bad that you chose to treat the volunteers on this forum with rudeness because the forum members are a great source of information when they want to provide it. But, like all of the others mentioned above, we can select who to help.

Just to give you an idea of how laughable a 'public reprimand' is for a judge in this state, the judge that originally heard this case (in a lower court that is no longer relevant in the appeals process) has the most reprimands of all judges in the country and is still unable to be removed from the bench. Those few judges that are reprimanded receive those from the highest courts in the state, which certainly aren't going to reprimand themselves, no matter who reports them. And, even when reprimanded, as clearly stated on the MCJP website, the cases and the litigants harmed by the judges' misconduct are unaffected, nor can the victims of their misconduct take any legal action against them. The even fewer judges who are ever 'removed from office' are simply allowed to retire.

The ACLU, or any other law firm or attorney, can only handle so many cases. If they already have all of their attorneys handling voting rights cases, and hot current issues like abortion rights, they can't very well drop everything to handle another civil rights case, no matter what the topic is or how interesting or how much of a winner it may be. This case involves the removal of a constitutional right that affects every single citizen in the state, but the ACLU here might see it differently, as a case that really won't affect as many people as the other issues it's working on in the short term, and that eventually a higher court will overturn it in some future case on the same thing, and things will be back to the way they should be. I do have every intention on working with the ACLU and trying to get them to look at the case and appeal it to the Supreme Court, but I can't throw it in their face and force them to take it on my say-so.

I have not treated anyone on this forum with rudeness. Some of the earlier posters in this thread have responded to my initial inquiry with rudeness, pretending they are moderators or otherwise in control of the forum and that things should be a certain way because they want them to be, which certainly isn't the case.

While everyone on the internet certainly has the choice on choosing what to respond to, they can simply choose not to respond at all when they don't know the answer to something, rather than responding with unhelpful information, or pretending to be some controlling authority who knows everything, but won't provide the information unless it is begged for in a particular manner. I'm only interested in obtaining the information in my original inquiry, not in bowing down to some self-important internet forum trolls.