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Clean Title - Flood Damage?

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bdocks

Junior Member
I recently purchased a vehicle from a small dealership. The car seemed to be in good shape which was confirmed by a mechanic. After driving it for a couple weeks I noticed that it had a slight suspension issue, which isn't a big deal. While looking at the suspension I noticed a large amount of rust on the undercarriage. I looked in the engine bay, more rust. Tailgate? Rust. I even found rust inside of the car underneath the seats and beneath the dash. And it's not just a few spots of rust, the frame is flaking away. The car is a 2007.
I am located in Utah and know that there is no lemon law here. The car came from New York, where they have had a few floods/hurricanes throughout the years and think it may have been water damaged. The title is clean and no mention of a flood.
If the car was indeed flood damaged, would this not mean that the title should be a salvaged car?
If that is the case, do I have any legal options with he dealer?
 


FlyingRon

Senior Member
You've got no proof that any of this happened. While NY does get some floods, it's extremely rare to have a hurricane (only slightly more likely than getting one in Utah). What we do have a lot of in the NE here is road salt. You'd need more than your preconcieved notions and conjecture to prevail against the dealer. Apparenlty your prebuy mechanic didn't do too good of a job if you found pervasive corrosion within two weeks of the inspection.
 

bdocks

Junior Member
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate your opinion. I don't necessarily agree with your statement about having no proof. Obviously road salt can take a toll on the underside of a car, but how would it rust the interior of the engine bay, trunk, metal under the interior seats, dash, steering column, etc. The seats have stained water spots along with some of the electrical not functioning properly. Obviously the mechanic did not do his job, but that is null at this point.
My original question was about the clean title. If it was in fact flood damaged, and potentially not reported to the insurance (or whoever else), could the title be mislabeled as clean when it should be salvage? And if so, does the dealer have any liability?
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
My original question was about the clean title. If it was in fact flood damaged, and potentially not reported to the insurance (or whoever else), could the title be mislabeled as clean when it should be salvage? And if so, does the dealer have any liability?
Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

The point is that the title is clean. A NY car doesn't need a "flood" to be a rust bucket. (I grew up there.) A Utah dealer wouldn't likely know the history (or care) of a 9 year old car with, what, 150K to 200K miles on it.

Sorry, but I'm afraid you have nowhere to go with this.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I recently purchased a vehicle from a small dealership. The car seemed to be in good shape which was confirmed by a mechanic. After driving it for a couple weeks I noticed that it had a slight suspension issue, which isn't a big deal. While looking at the suspension I noticed a large amount of rust on the undercarriage. I looked in the engine bay, more rust. Tailgate? Rust. I even found rust inside of the car underneath the seats and beneath the dash. And it's not just a few spots of rust, the frame is flaking away. The car is a 2007.
I am located in Utah and know that there is no lemon law here. The car came from New York, where they have had a few floods/hurricanes throughout the years and think it may have been water damaged. The title is clean and no mention of a flood.
If the car was indeed flood damaged, would this not mean that the title should be a salvaged car?
If that is the case, do I have any legal options with he dealer?
I agree with FlyingRon that snow, ice and salt will rust vehicles and that it is not uncommon in the Midwest and Northeast to find rust on the undercarriage, tailgate and frame of older vehicles left out in the elements or driven regularly during the winter. Any inspection of the vehicle, by a mechanic and even by someone who knows nothing about cars, will detect this rust easily. And any inspection of the vehicle by a good mechanic and by someone who knows a little about cars will uncover rust and indications of water damage inside a vehicle.

Your mechanic was apparently not worth whatever it was you paid him for the inspection.

There have been flood-damaged vehicles that have found their way into the market in New York and elsewhere, often with the titles "wiped clean." Many of these vehicles are delivered from southern states to the north for sale to unsuspecting buyers.

Here is a link to New York's Department of Motor Vehicles, "Let the Buyer be Aware:" https://dmv.ny.gov/brochure/let-buyer-be-aware

Here is a link to an August 22, 2016, New York Daily News article, "How to avoid buying a flood-damaged car," written by Warren Clarke: http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/street-smarts/how-to-avoid-buying-flood-damaged-car-article-article-1.2760168
 

bdocks

Junior Member
I had just finished reading a few articles about flood damaged vehicles that were not reported to insurance companies, which in turn, were not marked as a salvage title. That is what spurred my questions.
That still begs the question as to how much of the unexposed interior is rusted (under dash, seats, steering column, wiring, etc). It doesn't seem plausible to me that there was no water that entered the interior. Either way, it does not matter. Thanks for all the replies and information.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I had just finished reading a few articles about flood damaged vehicles that were not reported to insurance companies, which in turn, were not marked as a salvage title. That is what spurred my questions.
That still begs the question as to how much of the unexposed interior is rusted (under dash, seats, steering column, wiring, etc). It doesn't seem plausible to me that there was no water that entered the interior. Either way, it does not matter. Thanks for all the replies and information.
It IS possible that you purchased a flood-damaged car. They are often sold as private sales or from small "pop-up" dealer lots (dealers who move from place to place after selling a few cars). The titles are often clean because the cars were never reported as damaged (the vehicles are cleaned up and sold instead of being reported to insurance companies) or the titles have been altered.

That is why it is very risky to purchase a car online and especially risky to purchase one online without a careful inspection of the vehicle first by someone who knows what to look for and where to look.

A careful inspection includes an inspection of the electrical and mechanical systems and the condition of the interior (under carpets and seats, in the trunk's tire compartment). Check the VIN with an auto check company. Pull the history of the vehicle. It is also important to wait to pay the seller until both you and the seller go to the DMV together to transfer the title and register the vehicle.

No money should change hands until the inspection is done and all paperwork is completed and the title is transferred at the DMV.

It IS illegal to sell a flood-damaged car or a salvage vehicle without disclosing to the purchaser first that the vehicle is flood-damaged or a salvage. The titles should be marked. The problem is it is hard to pursue a private seller and get a refund. You are generally stuck with the vehicle you purchase unless you purchase it through a legitimate dealer. Most states' lemon laws do not cover used cars or private sales.

I am sorry you wound up with a vehicle that was not as described and was not as you hoped.

We all appreciate the thanks, bdocks.
 

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