Dealer misrepresented milaege of car

[Mjb72]

What is the name of your state? Wisconsin



Im not sure if this is the right forum however it seemed to be the closest match.

I have done some searching on the situation I have but didnt find anything that matched so I will explain it here.

Just a couple days ago, Friday Feb 9 to be exact at around 5:30 pm I entered into a purchase agreement at a used car dealership. I had arived a bit earlier and was looking around the lot and in fact had spotted a vehicle that intrested me. At that time I went into the dealership to make contact with a salesman who I had talked to on the phone. I was in the market for a car for around 2500.00 He directed me to a 94 ford Taurus that was priced at aboput 2800.00 I was not imidiatley intrested as it was higher then I wanted to go but he then stated to me that this car had 50,xxx original miles. That got me intrested so he got the keys and we took it for a ride. He explained to me that he had to drive it off the lot and when he got in he looked at the odometer and stated to me that he was off a bit that it was actual 56,000 original mile. He further explained it belonged to some old fellow who rarely drove it and went on and on about how good of car it was. I dont know why but he did not offer to let me drive he simply took me for a ride but I had no real problem. Riding in the car to me gave no reason to doubt his claim. Granted the car had some minor issues but still seemed to support that it could be original. I also assumed I was getting proper ino as required by law. Long story short, I purchased the car for about 2800.00 plus tax title and all that stuff. When I got home I decided to check the VIN with Carfax out of curiousity and quickly discovered that the mileage was in fact in excess of mechanical limits. In my possesion I have the original window sticker that was in the car, on it there is no statement as to what the odometer reads or that it is actual or in excess of mechanical limits, again to me it would support his claim being there was nothing there to contradict it. In addition my sister was with me durring this time and also heard his claim of original miles. Acording to KBB.com the avg retail for a 94 taurus with 56k on it was around 2800 in excellent condition, witch it is not by description. With real milage of 156,000 its 2300.00 in excellent condition. Even the price charged supports the milage claim.

I called the dealer the following morning and talked to the salesman, when I confronted him with what I found out he simply stated that he had just assumed it was actual based on the overall condition of the car. To me it was an admison that he didnt provide fact. He pretty much tried to blow smoke up my tail, obviously trying to cover his and told me Id have to call on Monday and talk to the office manager. witch I plan on doing. I am also prepared to send a complaint along with suporting document to the DMV.

My big question her is, do I have a leg to stand on? Seems to me this is odometer fraud, I would not have bought the car if I knew it had 156k on it. In fact I doubt Id have ever looked at it. If nothing else works and they dont want to make it right do I have a potential law suit here? Any advice would be appreciated.

Myron
Grafton, Wisconsin

[BelizeBreeze]

what do you want to do? If it's get out of your contract, then you'll have to prove that the salesman knowingly misrepresented the mileage or actually did a rollback. Otherwise, you share in the liability (in fact, more so) because you didn't do your homework.

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Mjb72

he simply stated that he had just assumed it was actual based on the overall condition of the car.

The KEY here is the odometer statement provided by the owner (or auction house) who sold to the dealer. Ask the dealer to provide it. If it shows 56k or so, then you have to accept the fact that the dealer was based on his knowledge. If it shows 156k, then you MIGHT have a deceptive trade violation against the dealer.

To me it was an admison that he didnt provide fact.

Sorry, but I think that is hopeful thinking on your part.

My big question her is, do I have a leg to stand on? Seems to me this is odometer fraud, I would not have bought the car if I knew it had 156k on it. In fact I doubt Id have ever looked at it. If nothing else works and they dont want to make it right do I have a potential law suit here?

Possibly... but NOT based on fraud. The main problem I see you having is that this information was clearly available to you BEFORE you purchased... you just didn't do so.

I hope that you kept the window sticker!!

Read the information at:
[url]http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/consumer/car/wisebuys.htm[/url]

[Mjb72]

Originally Posted by JETX

The KEY here is the odometer statement provided by the owner (or auction house) who sold to the dealer. Ask the dealer to provide it. If it shows 56k or so, then you have to accept the fact that the dealer was based on his knowledge. If it shows 156k, then you MIGHT have a deceptive trade violation against the dealer.

I agree there but trouble is this car is 13 yrs old and from what I read cars 10 yrs or older are exepmt from odometer statements. In any case I was not shown one.


Sorry, but I think that is hopeful thinking on your part.

Im sure for the most part your right on that one however the day before he stated the mileage was original very matter of factly.

Possibly... but NOT based on fraud. The main problem I see you having is that this information was clearly available to you BEFORE you purchased... you just didn't do so.

Perhaps so, however at the dealership where Its my understanding the law forbids misrepresenting milage I had nothing at all to suggest otherwise.

I hope that you kept the window sticker!!

Believe me I did.

Read the information at:
[url]http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/consumer/car/wisebuys.htm[/url]

I have seen this.

Just some additional though here, My purchase contract has nothing filled in for mileage at time of sale either. For all purpouses I believed I was buying a car with 56k on it. Im no lawyer of course bu peronally I see nothing that would give them proof that I knew the actual miles. Im thinking that may have left me some holes to work with, I dont know. Hopefull I guess but all the same the car was mis-represented. There is a huge difference between 56k and 156k, 100k to be exact, hell thats the life span of some cars, nothing to sneeze at.

Thanks for the comments though.

Myron

[Mjb72]

Originally Posted by BelizeBreeze

what do you want to do? If it's get out of your contract, then you'll have to prove that the salesman knowingly misrepresented the mileage or actually did a rollback. Otherwise, you share in the liability (in fact, more so) because you didn't do your homework.

Im not sure what your getting at. I have purchased the vehicle outright but under the belief it was 56k miles. I dont know how it is elswhere but in Wisconsin Dealers are bound by laws to provide proper disclosure about used vehicles. 52,000 miles on a 13 yr old car should be enough to raise a dealers eyebrow when a car is being presented for a trade. This car was transfered from another dealer so Im sure it was taken in trade and then transfered to a lot that deals with lower priced cars, further I actually doubt that a dealer would farm out a car with 56k miles on it, that is still very sellable on a major lot. Fact is Im sure the dealership was well aware of the real mileage even if the salesman had decided to guess for himself. He is still a sales rep for the company and I would think they would be liable for his false statements.

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Mjb72

I see nothing that would give them proof that I knew the actual miles.

They don't have to prove that YOU knew... there is a principle in law called 'caveat emptor'... simply 'buyer beware'. The obligation is on YOU to do your own due diligence in making a purchase. The simple fact is... if you didn't know about the mileage descrepancy, how can you just assume that the dealer knew??

aot ll the same the car was mis-represented.

However, unless you can PROVE that the dealer knew of the real mileage and purposely deceived you... the ERROR is not a direct LEGAL issue. That doesn't mean that this is hopeless... you really REALLY need to exhaust all reasonable attempts to resolve this matter with the dealer. This could include getting a local attorney to write the dealer a letter on your behalf. You would be surprised how often this will help get the dealers attention.

BTW... google 'caveat emptor'.

caveat emptor
(kah-vee-ott emptor) Latin for "let the buyer beware." The basic premise that the buyer buys at his/her own risk and therefore should examine and test a product himself/herself for obvious defects and imperfections. Caveat emptor still applies even if the purchase is "as is" or when a defect is obvious upon reasonable inspection before purchase.

[Mjb72]

Just curious, no offence meant. Where are you from?

Your views seem to be in favor of the dealership as if your saying I should be the one to research and know all there is to about a car and the dealer can just tell me what they like. Going by that theroy then you seem to be saying the dealer can tell me the car is a v8 when theres a 4 cylinder in it and get away with it because I should have opened the hood to look for myself. Im a little puzzled by your thinking, it doesnt make sense to me.

Myron

[BelizeBreeze]

Originally Posted by Mjb72

Just curious, no offence meant. Where are you from?

Your views seem to be in favor of the dealership as if your saying I should be the one to research and know all there is to about a car and the dealer can just tell me what they like. Going by that theroy then you seem to be saying the dealer can tell me the car is a v8 when theres a 4 cylinder in it and get away with it because I should have opened the hood to look for myself. Im a little puzzled by your thinking, it doesnt make sense to me.

Myron

Where are we from? It's called the study of law. Go figure.

[Mjb72]

Originally Posted by BelizeBreeze

Where are we from? It's called the study of law. Go figure.

Not a very friendly person are you? I dont see why the sarcasm I didnt mean any offense, I was just curious.

[BelizeBreeze]

Originally Posted by Mjb72

Not a very friendly person are you? I dont see why the sarcasm I didnt mean any offense, I was just curious.

If you want friendly go pay a local attorney to be nice to you. If you want legally acurate and RESPONSIBLE answers, well, you got them.

[Zigner]

Just for an FYI as to why the OP is out of gas on this one...Wisconsin laws do not require mileage disclosure for vehicles over 10 years old...

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Just for an FYI as to why the OP is out of gas on this one...Wisconsin laws do not require mileage disclosure for vehicles over 10 years old...

sucks to be a cheesehead right about now I bet.

The salesman simply stated what he saw. Since there is no requirment of disclosure and the odometer did state 56k, unless you can prove he was actually aware and not merely suggest he should have been aware, you got nothin'.

You see, you also believed the odometer reading as it was as well, didn;t you. Apparently the car was in good enough condition to cause you to believe it to be possible. A dealership does not have to do a background check on every vehicle as long as they do not intentional misrepresent the vehicle.

BTW; never believe a car salesman at his word. The did not earn the rep as one of the most distrusted occupations for being George Washington honest. It was your duty to investigate and check things over typically using a disinterested party (mechanic)


go back to JETX' advice and re-read it. It would seem it may be your only hope.

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Just for an FYI as to why the OP is out of gas on this one...Wisconsin laws do not require mileage disclosure for vehicles over 10 years old...

Sorry..... but FEDERAL laws require odometer disclosure.... and they 'trump' state law!!

See 49 USC § 32705, "Disclosure requirements on transfer of motor vehicles"
"(a)
(1) Disclosure Requirements.— Under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Transportation that include the way in which information is disclosed and retained under this section, a person transferring ownership of a motor vehicle shall give the transferee the following written disclosure:
(A) Disclosure of the cumulative mileage registered on the odometer.
(B) Disclosure that the actual mileage is unknown, if the transferor knows that the odometer reading is different from the number of miles the vehicle has actually traveled."
[url]http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode49/usc_sec_49_00032705----000-.html[/url]

And the mileage IS required in Wisconsin.... see the WI "Instructions for Selling a Vehicle" at:
[url]http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/consumer/forms/mv2928.pdf[/url]

[JETX]

So, back to the issue... after a little research, if you try to resolve this without success, you can certainly file a complaint with the WI Department of Transportation:
[url]http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/consumer/rights/complaint.htm[/url]

I suggest you read the information at:
[url]http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/business/dealers/docs/discloseureused.pdf[/url]
[url]http://dha.state.wi.us/home/Decisions/DOT/1995-1999/DOT-98-335.pdf[/url]
[url]http://dha.state.wi.us/home/Decisions/DOT/1995-1999/98-H-1104.pdf[/url]

[Zigner]

All of that aside, Jet...
If the dealer received the vehicle with a stated mileage of xxx and resold the vehicle following all the disclosure rules as the same xxx, then the dealer did nothing wrong.