Deceptive and Unfair Auto Sale?

[sugar87]

I live in Missouri. I just bought a 2005 Ford Taurus with 115k miles from a dealership. The salesman told me that every car that comes to their lot goes straight to the mechanic and they fix anything that is wrong with it. The car has a limited warranty on it. The part that I think is deceptive is that when you test drive, the sales man rides with you and tells you where to go. You can only go around the block. You are not going to go faster than 35 mph. We had a bad feeling about the car because it was not the one that we originally wanted. The salesman reassured us by telling and showing us that one of the men that worked there was test driving it and looking at it and that it was fine. We end up taking the car the next day on a saturday, in which we went a block away to put temps on it then to gas station, and the engine light was already on. If we were allowed to test drive it a little longer, we may have noticed this engine light that they probably cleared off the system to sell. I called them that day a whole twenty minutes after driving off the lot. The manager wanted me to take it to oreillys to have the code read. Fuel system too lean. We brought it up there monday and they had it fixed and it wasnt technically under the warranty although i felt that it should had been fixed reguardless considering we have a problem with it instantly. The day we got it back engine light is back on again. I think it is the catalytic converter. He said we can bring it back up there so they can see if they can do something (45 min drive by the way). There is no guarantee that they will fix it (if its not in the warranty), or that we wont have to pay part of bill. There is also other things wrong with the car that are more minor which we can fix ourselves. I just dont think that when you buy from a dealer who claims that they have their cars fixed by a mechanic, you should have to instantly shell out money to get it fixed. As if looking for a car isnt stressful enough, I should be happy to have a new car, but no, I am more stressed then I was looking for a car, worrying about sales taxes, making payments, and fixing the car.

 

[sandyclaus]

I live in Missouri. I just bought a 2005 Ford Taurus with 115k miles from a dealership. The salesman told me that every car that comes to their lot goes straight to the mechanic and they fix anything that is wrong with it. The car has a limited warranty on it. The part that I think is deceptive is that when you test drive, the sales man rides with you and tells you where to go. You can only go around the block. You are not going to go faster than 35 mph. We had a bad feeling about the car because it was not the one that we originally wanted. The salesman reassured us by telling and showing us that one of the men that worked there was test driving it and looking at it and that it was fine. We end up taking the car the next day on a saturday, in which we went a block away to put temps on it then to gas station, and the engine light was already on. If we were allowed to test drive it a little longer, we may have noticed this engine light that they probably cleared off the system to sell. I called them that day a whole twenty minutes after driving off the lot. The manager wanted me to take it to oreillys to have the code read. Fuel system too lean. We brought it up there monday and they had it fixed and it wasnt technically under the warranty although i felt that it should had been fixed reguardless considering we have a problem with it instantly. The day we got it back engine light is back on again. I think it is the catalytic converter. He said we can bring it back up there so they can see if they can do something (45 min drive by the way). There is no guarantee that they will fix it (if its not in the warranty), or that we wont have to pay part of bill. There is also other things wrong with the car that are more minor which we can fix ourselves. I just dont think that when you buy from a dealer who claims that they have their cars fixed by a mechanic, you should have to instantly shell out money to get it fixed. As if looking for a car isnt stressful enough, I should be happy to have a new car, but no, I am more stressed then I was looking for a car, worrying about sales taxes, making payments, and fixing the car.

Never, never, NEVER take a used car salesman at their word when they claim that their mechanic has inspected the vehicle and says that it's fine unless they are willing to back that up IN WRITING prior to you purchasing the vehicle. The fact that you weren't allowed to drive very far or faster than 35 MPH should have been huge red flags that told you to beware and go somewhere else. At the very least, if you really wanted to by that car, you needed to bring in your OWN private mechanic to verify the mechanical condition of that vehicle before committing to the purchase - especially if the vehicle was being offered "AS IS" or with an extremely limited warranty such as was the case with your situation.

Bottom line here is that since you did not exercise due diligence, and if those issues you are describing were not being covered by your limited warranty, once you bought the vehicle, you accepted it without any recourse to return the vehicle or hold the dealer liable for any costs to repair any mechanical issues that weren't specifically addressed and covered under that warranty.

 

[sugar87]

Never, never, NEVER take a used car salesman at their word when they claim that their mechanic has inspected the vehicle and says that it's fine unless they are willing to back that up IN WRITING prior to you purchasing the vehicle. The fact that you weren't allowed to drive very far or faster than 35 MPH should have been huge red flags that told you to beware and go somewhere else. At the very least, if you really wanted to by that car, you needed to bring in your OWN private mechanic to verify the mechanical condition of that vehicle before committing to the purchase - especially if the vehicle was being offered "AS IS" or with an extremely limited warranty such as was the case with your situation.

Bottom line here is that since you did not exercise due diligence, and if those issues you are describing were not being covered by your limited warranty, once you bought the vehicle, you accepted it without any recourse to return the vehicle or hold the dealer liable for any costs to repair any mechanical issues that weren't specifically addressed and covered under that warranty.

But isnt there some deception in that sale because they give you a very limited and supervised test drive? The manager seems to want to work with us and he said that it was good that we contacted him right away (that seems to help the limits of our warranty in someway?) But the dealership doesnt make any decisions, it all goes through corporate.

 

[sandyclaus]

But isnt there some deception in that sale because they give you a very limited and supervised test drive? The manager seems to want to work with us and he said that it was good that we contacted him right away (that seems to help the limits of our warranty in someway?) But the dealership doesnt make any decisions, it all goes through corporate.

But you knew before you bought the car that you were only allowed a very limited and supervised test drive. It didn't seem to make any difference to you before you signed the purchase contract. While I'm sure the very short and extremely limited test drive was probably intended to minimize the driving experience so that any potentially known issues wouldn't rear their ugly head during the test, they dealer could just say it was for another reason - such as a time factor, or for not putting excessive wear and additional mileage on the vehicle.

That's great if the manager is willing to work with you, but you need to realize that unless those repairs are covered under your warranty, they aren't OBLIGATED to do anything about it. They wouldn't be required to pay for any of those repairs, nor offer you any kind of discount on required repairs AT ALL. In fact, you'll probably be told that the corporate office is denying the repairs just so that the dealer doesn't look like the bad guy - and there isn't a thing you can do about it.

Used car sales are all about "Buyer Beware". That's one reason they have a really bad rep in the business world - because there really are a lot of bad guys out there who are hoping to convince you to buy that car before you realize what a bad deal it really was. That, however, does not change the fact that as a consumer, you needed to take extra care when considering your used car purchase.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

But isnt there some deception in that sale because they give you a very limited and supervised test drive? The manager seems to want to work with us and he said that it was good that we contacted him right away (that seems to help the limits of our warranty in someway?) But the dealership doesnt make any decisions, it all goes through corporate.

It does not take a rocket scientist to say... "I want to drive this on the highway and if I like it, I will take it to my mechanic".

 

[whynot]

There may be some hope.

The basic limits:

1) As everyone's saying, it's Buyer Beware. The short test drive, & trusting their word, is on you. You won't get anywhere with those claims. The car is sold as is except for the written warranty. I've been in new car dealer that used a 1 mile route & that's all you were allowed. Dealers always try to send someone with you. You can ask to go alone & sometimes they'll let you, but it's their car, they have a right to ride along.

2) You need to find out what's causing the check light. It could be something small, & nothing to stress over. A loose gas cap can trigger it. Many auto parts stores will read the codes for you for free or small fee. It can give an idea. They will only read the first level of codes. A mechanic shop can read the other levels with the specific problem, but often charge since it takes more effort. If they are honest,, the dealer will tell you, & if not, you'll be stuck again with them turning off the code.

3) A check engine light or anything on a car, especially at 115K can start as you drive off the lot. It happens. Ex: I was selling a car, & to prep for a potential buyer, I got gas & the light went on. It went off again. It may have been the gas cap, or something serious. Had I not happened to get gas, & they did a small test ride, I might have sold it knowing for the last 2 years it had never been on.


So that said:

4) It's possible the dealer will come through. In a small town where reputation matters, some places do mean what they say.

5) Many counties in US have "consumer affairs" departments. The majority of complaints will be car repairs & car sales. They can tell you if the dealer is properly licensed. If there's been fraud from them, & the dept is anxious to help stop it, & can go to bat for you. They can tell you exactly what steps might help in your situation. I'd guess they'll suggest writing a letter & sending it certified, if the trip to the shop doesn't solve it all. Mentioning consumer affairs (after talking with them) to the dealer during your visit, can quietly help motivate them to take care of your problem.

6) If the dealer committed direct intentional fraud, that would give you grounds. You'd have to prove it, which is not so easy. So if they knowingly turned off the check engine light to mask a big problem, that would be illegal. If the problem is obviously longer lasting, then it's easy to point out that the light was on. Some cars tell a tiny sort of history of recent light triggerings. This is where, if the consumer affairs is aware of problems with the dealer, they may be able to pressure them, or otherwise help you sort it out. (For instance, if the last 5 people who bought from the dealer report the same experience.)

Rolling back the odometer & lying about it on paperwork is fraud. With 115k it's not likely, but buying a carfax even now may help. You can also see for instance, if it's a salvage with a faked title. However, if it was a in a accident & didn't tell you, that's legal. It's when they falsify government paperwork, that it's illegal. Generally dealers know how to make positive sounding statements that are "just so", they can't be labeled fraud. Ex: they said their mechanic checks it - but not whether he's any good & no guaranty that he finds all or any of the problems.

Even if CA can help fuss, if it's a smaller repair or even a big one you can afford, life is short & sometimes just doing the repair yourself & leaving a complaint with them for their records, is the best way to go.

7) If it turns out to be significant, you can either sell the car. Or if you get it repaired, be cautious about finding a reputable place & talk with consumer affairs about how to not get ripped off on the repair. Do not assume this dealer will be honest in the repair process. Take it for a 2nd opinion. Do not let them pressure you into "now or never." That's a great sign that you are about to be ripped off again. If you sell, you can't outright deceive & lie (at least in the county I'm in), but you don't have answer anything directly, especially if not asked. That's how even private sellers can seem good, but leave you with a car with an issue.

8) If you google buying used cars, many sites have advice for how to avoid this the next time, that are well worth it.


Hopefully it will be a reasonably costing repair & you'll be disappointed in the experience, but soon will be past this point, & happily enjoying your new car.

 

[Antigone*]

I live in Missouri. I just bought a 2005 Ford Taurus with 115k miles from a dealership. The salesman told me that every car that comes to their lot goes straight to the mechanic and they fix anything that is wrong with it. The car has a limited warranty on it. The part that I think is deceptive is that when you test drive, the sales man rides with you and tells you where to go. You can only go around the block. You are not going to go faster than 35 mph. We had a bad feeling about the car because it was not the one that we originally wanted. The salesman reassured us by telling and showing us that one of the men that worked there was test driving it and looking at it and that it was fine. We end up taking the car the next day on a saturday, in which we went a block away to put temps on it then to gas station, and the engine light was already on. If we were allowed to test drive it a little longer, we may have noticed this engine light that they probably cleared off the system to sell. I called them that day a whole twenty minutes after driving off the lot. The manager wanted me to take it to oreillys to have the code read. Fuel system too lean. We brought it up there monday and they had it fixed and it wasnt technically under the warranty although i felt that it should had been fixed reguardless considering we have a problem with it instantly. The day we got it back engine light is back on again. I think it is the catalytic converter. He said we can bring it back up there so they can see if they can do something (45 min drive by the way). There is no guarantee that they will fix it (if its not in the warranty), or that we wont have to pay part of bill. There is also other things wrong with the car that are more minor which we can fix ourselves. I just dont think that when you buy from a dealer who claims that they have their cars fixed by a mechanic, you should have to instantly shell out money to get it fixed. As if looking for a car isnt stressful enough, I should be happy to have a new car, but no, I am more stressed then I was looking for a car, worrying about sales taxes, making payments, and fixing the car.

Hmm... let me see. You visited this dealership, negotiated a deal on a car that is eight years old, has over 100k miles on it, left the dealership, came back the next day, negotiated some more, and didn't have your own mechanic check it out???

So where exactly is the deception? You said here I am, take me, take me!!!

 

[sandyclaus]

Hmm... let me see. You visited this dealership, negotiated a deal on a car that is eight years old, has over 100k miles on it, left the dealership, came back the next day, negotiated some more, and didn't have your own mechanic check it out???

So where exactly is the deception? You said here I am, take me, take me!!!

There's a sucker born every minute, and most of them are known as used car salesmen...

And then there's THIS:

...We had a bad feeling about the car because it was not the one that we originally wanted...

Seriously... All those red flags going off everywhere, and this dealer STILL convinced you to buy the car. They obviously smelled you coming from a mile away!

 

[Antigone*]

There's a sucker born every minute, and most of them are known as used car salesmen...

And then there's THIS:



Seriously... All those red flags going off everywhere, and this dealer STILL convinced you to buy the car. They obviously smelled you coming from a mile away!

um... Sandy, hun... one of my first jobs was selling new and used cars Are you calling me a sucker

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

um... Sandy, hun... one of my first jobs was selling new and used cars Are you calling me a sucker

I do believe I passed that business somewhere down south or out west...

Tigi's Used Cars & Funsuckers

 

[sandyclaus]

um... Sandy, hun... one of my first jobs was selling new and used cars Are you calling me a sucker

YOU are not the sucker. The one who bought the hunk-o-junk is.

 

[sandyclaus]

I do believe I passed that business somewhere down south or out west...

Tigi's Used Cars & Funsuckers

...and Web Hosting Services.