No Title, No Purchase Agreement

[ripped_off_mn]

What is the name of your state? Minnesota

On October 29, 2004 I purchased a 1999 GMC Yukon from a used car dealer in Minnesota. The financing I received was from one of the owners of the car dealership, and the temp tag for the plates has the used car dealers name on it. The guy I was doing some freelance work for gave the car dealership a check for the tax, title and license and then I worked the money off through work I did. I have made payments on the truck in Dec, Jan, Feb, March. Evey month I called this guy and asked him where the plates and title was for the car. Where the puchase agreement was for the car. I told him I could not get insurance on the truck because my insurance company wanted proof of ownership or purchase. When I asked the guy he kept telling me he was sending it but it never came. He said not to worry that there were dealer plates on the truck and I was insured. Well the plates expired in January. I kept calling him but he would not return my calls, or he would tell me that he just sent the paperwork to me. So the truck has been sitting in my boyfriend garage since January 2005.

Finally, being tired of being lied to and jerked around. In April I left a message for him telling him that I was not making another payment on the truck until I got paperwork. He then e-mailed me and said that I was in default of the loan and wanted the truck back. I told him I wanted the 2000.00 back for the car that I had paid so far because he lied to me. I did some research on the car and found out that one he could not get the title released from GMC in New York, that the truck was salvaged, that he did not show proof of tax paid to the DMV and that is why they were not releasing the vehicle.

I e-mailed all the lies I caught him in to him, and he said he would give this I guy (who is his business partner) the tax, title and license) fees to him, and that he was going to charge me $250.00 for driving the truck on his dealer insurance, and that he was going to give me 750.00 back, and he was going to come get the truck.

I emailed hime back yesterday and told him he wasn't getting the truck back until I got all my money back PERIOD! I then filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and with the Minnesota Attorney General.

What are my rights here? Can I keep the truck until he pays me back? Can my boyfriend charge him for storage for the car all these months? Can I but a mechanics lein on him?

I would truely like opinons on this because I am not sure what to do next. Do I have to give the truck back or no?

Thanks for your help.

[teflon_jones]

The truck is his and you need to return it. Why wouldn't you get paperwork?

You'll need to sue him to get your money back.

[ripped_off_mn]

You tell me. He couldn't sell it I guess because he couldn't get a clear title from GMAC at the time is my guess. I have not heard from him now in three days.

I know there abandon car laws here, I know he has to disclose that it was salvaged, which he never did, I know that my boyfriend should be able to file something for storing it all these months. I mean here I thought I was going buying a car for my family, and 6 months later I still can't insure it.

Anyone else tell me something on this?

[teflon_jones]

Your mistake was taking delivery of a vehicle without getting proper (or any!) documentation. You put yourself in this situation and you should take it as a lesson learned.

Return the truck and take him to court.

[ripped_off_mn]

I have a note, on the loan he made with me, I have the temp tag he gave me for the temporary plates. I signed a title sheet with him, no where on it did he say the truck was salvaged.

What else was I suppose to get from the dealer? It is not a private party is was from an auto sales company.

He said he bought it from an auto auction and he was waiting for the title to transfer to him, that was in November. It is now almost June.

You tell me, and I have been paying on the car until April, when I quite because this guy was not telling the truth from the get go.

He gave me plates for the truck even, I can't put them on though and get insurance because he never gave me a copy of the title paperwork, nor does he have a title. My guess he is trying to wash the title which is illegal in itself.

So now I am going to start charging him 100.00 a day to store the thing besides.

[teflon_jones]

Originally Posted by ripped_off_mn

I have a note

What exactly is this "note" and what does it say? Is it signed by both of you?

Originally Posted by ripped_off_mn

on the loan he made with me

Is this an official loan document with both of your signatures on it?

Originally Posted by ripped_off_mn

I have the temp tag he gave me for the temporary plates

These are not valid plates and prove nothing.

Originally Posted by ripped_off_mn

I signed a title sheet with him, no where on it did he say the truck was salvaged.

What is a title sheet? You said he doesn't have the title.

Originally Posted by ripped_off_mn

What else was I suppose to get from the dealer?

You should have received the following at the very least:
Promissory note for the loan
Purchase agreement
You could also have requested a copy of the title. Since he held a loan on the car, he could keep possession of the title until the loan was paid in full.

Originally Posted by ripped_off_mn

He said he bought it from an auto auction and he was waiting for the title to transfer to him, that was in November. It is now almost June.

Then you should have said "when you have the title, we can talk". You should not have done anything with respect to this vehicle until he had a free and clear title for it.

Originally Posted by ripped_off_mn

He gave me plates for the truck even

Sure, illegally.

Originally Posted by ripped_off_mn

So now I am going to start charging him 100.00 a day to store the thing besides.

You have no right to do that.


I'm not trying to be critical of you, just make you realize the facts. You made a mistake and now you're paying for that mistake. Take it as a lesson learned. File a case in small claims court against this guy asap.

[ripped_off_mn]

Originally Posted by teflon_jones

What exactly is this "note" and what does it say? Is it signed by both of you?
The note is signed and noterized by someone, his signature is not on the copy of the one I had.
Is this an official loan document with both of your signatures on it?
No, It is a loan paper I am assuming he had written up and had me sign.

These are not valid plates and prove nothing.
The DMV in Minnesota told me they were valid plates for the truck.
What is a title sheet? You said he doesn't have the title.

You should have received the following at the very least:
Promissory note for the loan-I recieved a promisary note for the truck, with my monthly payment on it, I have a copy of it signed by me and not by him. It is noterized.

Purchase agreement-I have not got one of these, he never gave me one nor do I remember filling one out

You could also have requested a copy of the title. At the time of purchase I complete a purchase agreement, where you transfer the title, and he at that time told me it took 21 days, and he gave me a temporary tag for the plates, until thay came in the mail. What he didn't tell me is that he hadn't even titled the car into his name from this auction or whatever, and then GMAC wouldn't release the title to him (Or so he tells me) and then he said the state what backed up three or 4 months (which is not true because the DMV just told me they were not)
Since he held a loan on the car, he could keep possession of the title until the loan was paid in full. That is fine, but he does not have title to the truck either at this point, because he hasn't proved he paid tax on the automobile. Nor has he obtained title to the truck in his car dealerships name. How can he hold title to a truck that was never transfered to me to begin with and why should I pay on a loan on a truck I can't insure because of his unlawful business practices.

And why can I not charge him storage, I told him to bring my money and come get the truck and we would disolve the contract and that was a week ago or more.
Traci


Then you should have said "when you have the title, we can talk". You should not have done anything with respect to this vehicle until he had a free and clear title for it. He told me it was coming from New York, because that is where it came from auction, and that he would just title it right into my name. So I figured that is most likely how it works. How would a normal person buying a car no any different then that.

Sure, illegally.


You have no right to do that. Why don't I? I told him to pick it up, my friend is storing it in his garage, taking up space and this guy won't even talk to me now that I asked for my money back. He hasn't talked to me in a week. So how long with no contact do I go before it is mine? Or before I can charge him for storing it at my friends? I told him to bring me my money and he could have it back. How is it he can lie, cheat, and steel my money, and my friend can't charge him for storage fees when I said get it out of here and bring me my money.

I'm not trying to be critical of you, just make you realize the facts. You made a mistake and now you're paying for that mistake. Take it as a lesson learned. File a case in small claims court against this guy asap.

I sent all our e-mail conversations and contracts and things to the better business bureau and to the Minnesota Attorney General. When I am done with that I will take him to claims court and so will my friend for storing it in his garage for 6 months.

I respect your imput, but I can't believe there are no laws protecting people from unlawful car dealers like this.

[Shelby6718]

Stop wasting time with this. Contact the DMV and find out exactly which department in your state handles complaints with dealers. In most states it's the Used Vehicle and Parts Commission or some such similar office. That particular office has investigators which handle your type of complaint. You want the department that license's dealers: not someone in DMV that issues drivers licenses, transfers titles and tags, etc. They have some knowledge about these things but are not qualified to give information on complaints such as yours. They should have transferred you to the correct department. A deal is not done until a valid, transferrable title is delivered. Each state has a time limit set for such (usually a month or less) and, in your case, it has most likely expired. Additionally, a dealer cannot put one of his actual metal "dealer" tags on a vehicle and give it to a purchaser to drive around on. It's illegal, uninsured for a non-employee, and their insurance carrier would go ballestic. They generally issue a temporary tag (usually paper and only good for 30 days) but this type of tag carries no insurance with it.
If what you have stated is totally correct, the Used Vehicle Commission will set in straight shortly. You will most likely get your money back, perhaps minus for whatever miles you put on the vehicle. When it is all said and done, all concerned should be back at square one. Forget the storage aspect.