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Troublesome buyer

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JordanSmith

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

I'd like some input on my situation, as backup.

A couple (boyfriend/girlfriend) came to me looking to buy my car which was sold Private Party.

I did not say "as-is" anywhere, but made the assumption on my part that ALL Private Party auto sales are "as-is".

The Boyfriend took it for a test drive with the Girlfriend (who actually bought it) in the back seat. She then bought the car a day or two later.

At her bank, we both signed a bill of sale the bank provided, and the bank gave me a check for the money. Missouri is apparently different in that the bank doesn't take the title, and we ended up failing to sign the title paperwork at the time of payment/bill of sale/posession.



The boyfriend had the clutch blow up later that night (it's a 400hp car) and now the girlfriend is suing me to pay for this damage, as well as other stuff I "didn't tell her about".

I did not say "as-is" anywhere, but neither did I say explicitly anything about the clutch. I admitted later that it had slipped on me 3 times in the last 2 months or so, but did not consider it a major issue and did not bring it up. (nearly daily use)

They refused multiple attempts at completing the title signing. They were holding the signing of the title over my head as a kind of blackmail for me to pay all the repairs they wanted done.

I have since notified the DMV of the sale and submitted the Bill of Sale to them.


I declined to pay these repairs and now I'm being sued for $5000.

Am I right that this was an "as-is" sale?
Is the Bill of Sale worthless in this situation? Even after I got paid by the bank?

Thanks.
 


tranquility

Senior Member
An "as-is" sale does not mean you can defraud. Did they ask about the mechanical condition of the vehicle? Did you reply? What did you say? If you misrepresented the vehicle, you have a problem. Even if you withheld information you know the person would want to know, you could have a problem. The key is what was said (and not said) by you.

However, generally a private party car sale is going to be as-is with certain exceptions that don't apply you what you're talking about now. The other party was a fool to take the car without checking it out in detail. But, the fact you knew of a potentially major problem and didn't disclose it, might be a bit of a problem. If they asked about condition and you made some representation that was untrue, you have much more of a problem.
 

JordanSmith

Junior Member
An "as-is" sale does not mean you can defraud. Did they ask about the mechanical condition of the vehicle? Did you reply? What did you say? If you misrepresented the vehicle, you have a problem. Even if you withheld information you know the person would want to know, you could have a problem. The key is what was said (and not said) by you.

However, generally a private party car sale is going to be as-is with certain exceptions that don't apply you what you're talking about now. The other party was a fool to take the car without checking it out in detail. But, the fact you knew of a potentially major problem and didn't disclose it, might be a bit of a problem. If they asked about condition and you made some representation that was untrue, you have much more of a problem.
I did not explicitly say anything about the condition of the clutch. Good, bad, or anything. I spoke in generalities, and in general I did say except for some specific items, I thought it was a good, reliable car. I even gave $500 off for the repair of the big issue I felt the car had (worn bearing).

At the time I did not believe the condition of the clutch was of serious nature, just that it was beginning to show some wear in certain situations. (high torque) I drove it on a near daily basis and did not have issue with it. 3 times in 40-50 days did not seem to be a major problem to me.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
I did not explicitly say anything about the condition of the clutch. Good, bad, or anything. I spoke in generalities, and in general I did say except for some specific items, I thought it was a good, reliable car. I even gave $500 off for the repair of the big issue I felt the car had (worn bearing).

At the time I did not believe the condition of the clutch was of serious nature, just that it was beginning to show some wear in certain situations. (high torque) I drove it on a near daily basis and did not have issue with it. 3 times in 40-50 days did not seem to be a major problem to me.
Now we're getting into the facts and what a fact finder would determine. You will say what you said, he will say what he said and the court will determine if there was an intentional or negligent misrepresentation about the facts.
 

JordanSmith

Junior Member
Now we're getting into the facts and what a fact finder would determine. You will say what you said, he will say what he said and the court will determine if there was an intentional or negligent misrepresentation about the facts.
Ok, understood. So what about their claim that since they didn't sign the title, I was responsible for the vehicle?

They also said that since I didn't have "as-is" on the bill of sale, it doesn't count?
 

tranquility

Senior Member
Ok, understood. So what about their claim that since they didn't sign the title, I was responsible for the vehicle?

They also said that since I didn't have "as-is" on the bill of sale, it doesn't count?
I believe all private party used car sales in Missouri are "as-is" unless there is a specific warranty provided. I am uncertain as to the issue of signing for title. Perhaps those with more experience with auto sales can help. I think it unlikely, but don't really know.
 

latigo

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

I'd like some input on my situation, as backup.

A couple (boyfriend/girlfriend) came to me looking to buy my car which was sold Private Party.

I did not say "as-is" anywhere, but made the assumption on my part that ALL Private Party auto sales are "as-is".

The Boyfriend took it for a test drive with the Girlfriend (who actually bought it) in the back seat. She then bought the car a day or two later.

At her bank, we both signed a bill of sale the bank provided, and the bank gave me a check for the money. Missouri is apparently different in that the bank doesn't take the title, and we ended up failing to sign the title paperwork at the time of payment/bill of sale/posession.

The boyfriend had the clutch blow up later that night (it's a 400hp car) and now the girlfriend is suing me to pay for this damage, as well as other stuff I "didn't tell her about".

I did not say "as-is" anywhere, but neither did I say explicitly anything about the clutch. I admitted later that it had slipped on me 3 times in the last 2 months or so, but did not consider it a major issue and did not bring it up. (nearly daily use)

They refused multiple attempts at completing the title signing. They were holding the signing of the title over my head as a kind of blackmail for me to pay all the repairs they wanted done.

I have since notified the DMV of the sale and submitted the Bill of Sale to them.

I declined to pay these repairs and now I'm being sued for $5000.

Am I right that this was an "as-is" sale?
Is the Bill of Sale worthless in this situation? Even after I got paid by the bank?

Thanks.
Then keep on declining to pay because you are in good shape legally. And don’t be alarmed by naysayers.

Since you made no express warranty as to the condition of the used vehicle (neither verbally or in writing), the buyer could prevail only on the strength of an implied warranty as to its fitness for the purpose for which it was purchased.

However, in the absence of statutes to the contrary, there is no implied warranty as to the fitness of used goods. New goods yes, but not used.

Plus, you are benefited by the following Missouri Statute that excludes the element of implied warranty when the buyer has had the opportunity to inspect the goods prior to the purchase: And this holds true in Missouri even in the absence of the words “sold as is”.

"Missouri Revised Statutes Title XXVI Trade and Commerce – Implied Warranty

Section 400.2-316(3)(b)

“When the buyer before entering into the contract has examined the goods or the sample or model as fully as he desired or has refused to examine the goods there is no implied warranty with regard to defects which an examination ought in the circumstances to have revealed to him; . . . "

In other words, it is not a question of the sale being “as is” (as you suggest). That would only apply if the contract or bill of sale included the wording “as is”.

The issue here and your defense again is that the buyer cannot rely on either an express warranty simply because none was made. And secondly she cannot rely on an implied warranty because of the Missouri statute.

If that is not entirely clear to you, then let me know.

Good luck
 

JordanSmith

Junior Member
Then keep on declining to pay because you are in good shape legally. And don’t be alarmed by naysayers.

Since you made no express warranty as to the condition of the used vehicle (neither verbally or in writing), the buyer could prevail only on the strength of an implied warranty as to its fitness for the purpose for which it was purchased.

However, in the absence of statutes to the contrary, there is no implied warranty as to the fitness of used goods. New goods yes, but not used.

Plus, you are benefited by the following Missouri Statute that excludes the element of implied warranty when the buyer has had the opportunity to inspect the goods prior to the purchase: And this holds true in Missouri even in the absence of the words “sold as is”.

"Missouri Revised Statutes Title XXVI Trade and Commerce – Implied Warranty

Section 400.2-316(3)(b)

“When the buyer before entering into the contract has examined the goods or the sample or model as fully as he desired or has refused to examine the goods there is no implied warranty with regard to defects which an examination ought in the circumstances to have revealed to him; . . . "

In other words, it is not a question of the sale being “as is” (as you suggest). That would only apply if the contract or bill of sale included the wording “as is”.

The issue here and your defense again is that the buyer cannot rely on either an express warranty simply because none was made. And secondly she cannot rely on an implied warranty because of the Missouri statute.

If that is not entirely clear to you, then let me know.

Good luck
Thanks for this, it's definitely encouraging. Could you describe what an "expressed warranty" would look and sound like? I'm assuming it's a "I guarantee this will..." or something like that, correct? Saying things "run good" or "great shape" are not considered an expressed warranty, correct? I know these are subjective, unprofessional assessments made by me. Just wanting to be clear. Whould those statements be considered "puffery?". I'm curious what that is.

Also, so are you saying that the vehicle was not sold "as-is"? If so, how does this differentiate between not having an implied or expressed warranty?

Thanks so much for everyone's replies.
 
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JordanSmith

Junior Member
I believe all private party used car sales in Missouri are "as-is" unless there is a specific warranty provided. I am uncertain as to the issue of signing for title. Perhaps those with more experience with auto sales can help. I think it unlikely, but don't really know.
ok thanks!
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
Any idiot can blow the clutch in a 400 hp car in one evening, if they do not drive it right. The bottom line appears to be they either took out a loan to rent your car and owe for the damages or they bought it and should have had a mechanic inspect it beforehand. Absent a writing guaranteeing the mechanics of the vehicle they bought the car as-is. Further, no better time than the present to replace the clutch in a hotrod. Otherwise, you risk tearing it apart far from home. Wait until the engine comes apart. Even a professionally built drag engine is only good for about 10 passes reliably. Buying a used hotrod is foolish, unless you plan for the parts.
 
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JordanSmith

Junior Member
I'd be interested in additional thoughts and feedback about this situation, as well as arguments for my defense in a small claims court.
 

Astrolink

Member
clutch

Others have responded to your legal position. But, just wanted to mention, that when a clutch has shown to slip just one time, it's entered it's last days and needs immediate replacement (clutch disc, pressure plate, flywheel and throwout bearing). However, I don't know of many cars that it would cost $5000. A rear wheel drive is typically less than $1000 and a front wheel drive up to $2000.
 

JordanSmith

Junior Member
Title

I'm curious if they have any claim over me regarding the title not being signed over yet. I have a bill of sale she signed, and got paid by the bank, and have notified the DMV of the sale by providing the bill of sale to them.

I welcome other thoughts and especially additional legal documentation that may be of help in being aware of something they could raise, or something I could use in my defense.
 

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