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Won Arbitration Hearing But Having Issues With Buy Back Process

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MDMachiavelli

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Mississippi

In 2015 my secretary purchased a brand new vehicle from a Ford Dealership using Ford Motor Credit. Immediately after buying the vehicle it had a reoccurring problem that was also a safety issue. It seems that the car randomly blew a fuse that caused her interior lights and her driving and tail lights to fail. She liked the car and at first wanted to keep it, so she wanted it fixed. She is also very detailed so she documented everything. Each time she sent it to be fix it came back with the same problem. Eventually she was left with no other choice but to file for arbitration. She easily won her hearing and Ford was ordered to buy back her car.

When she bought the vehicle, she traded in a vehicle that she was upside down on by about 2500.00 So the dealership advised her that they would take the car back but that she would be responsible for the amount he was upside down on, some rebates, and mileage. The total they wanted her to give back was between 4500 & 5000.00 dollars. They advised her, with little notice, that if she didn't come up with the cash they would not complete the arbitration decision and she would be stuck with the car. When she bought the vehicle they told her they would not add the upside down amount to her loan and that the rebates would cancel that out. Now that she is returning the car, not only are they sticking her with the upside down portion they are also charging her with numerous fees to jack up the about so she cannot complete the buy back.

After trying her best she could not come up with the money, they told her that they would allow her to buy another Ford and they would roll that outstanding balance into another Ford vehicle.

She is, and rightfully so, jaded by Ford and feels that this is a deceptive attempt to keep her with a Ford against her will?

Does she have any recourse, and what are her best options?

Thanks in advance.
 


Just Blue

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Mississippi

In 2015 my secretary purchased a brand new vehicle from a Ford Dealership using Ford Motor Credit. Immediately after buying the vehicle it had a reoccurring problem that was also a safety issue. It seems that the car randomly blew a fuse that caused her interior lights and her driving and tail lights to fail. She liked the car and at first wanted to keep it, so she wanted it fixed. She is also very detailed so she documented everything. Each time she sent it to be fix it came back with the same problem. Eventually she was left with no other choice but to file for arbitration. She easily won her hearing and Ford was ordered to buy back her car.

When she bought the vehicle, she traded in a vehicle that she was upside down on by about 2500.00 So the dealership advised her that they would take the car back but that she would be responsible for the amount he was upside down on, some rebates, and mileage. The total they wanted her to give back was between 4500 & 5000.00 dollars. They advised her, with little notice, that if she didn't come up with the cash they would not complete the arbitration decision and she would be stuck with the car. When she bought the vehicle they told her they would not add the upside down amount to her loan and that the rebates would cancel that out. Now that she is returning the car, not only are they sticking her with the upside down portion they are also charging her with numerous fees to jack up the about so she cannot complete the buy back.

After trying her best she could not come up with the money, they told her that they would allow her to buy another Ford and they would roll that outstanding balance into another Ford vehicle.

She is, and rightfully so, jaded by Ford and feels that this is a deceptive attempt to keep her with a Ford against her will?

Does she have any recourse, and what are her best options?

Thanks in advance.
Why isn't the "secretary" posting for herself? :confused:
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
She has no right to expect they pay off her previous vehicle when she wants to cancel the transaction. She did drive the car, why should she not be required to pay for her use, which would have been an expense regardless. Ford is not in the business of giving free transportation. Rebates are given on the basis of a purchase. When one cancels the sale, some of the rebates can be taken away, as they have already been paid out on behalf of the purchaser by ford to the dealer.
 

MDMachiavelli

Junior Member
Why isn't the "secretary" posting for herself? :confused:
I thought this was a help forum.....

She has no right to expect they pay off her previous vehicle when she wants to cancel the transaction. She did drive the car, why should she not be required to pay for her use, which would have been an expense regardless. Ford is not in the business of giving free transportation. Rebates are given on the basis of a purchase. When one cancels the sale, some of the rebates can be taken away, as they have already been paid out on behalf of the purchaser by ford to the dealer.

I'm not saying she had that right, but this transaction was canceled because of Ford not holding up their end of the bargain. I never said she should ride for free.


Is this a help form or a let's just give pompous answers forum?
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
You cited 3 points of contention. I addressed them. Sorry you did not want to hear the truth but rather that she could drive for free, get her old car paid off for free and incur no other unrecoverable expenses.


I thought this was a help forum.....




I'm not saying she had that right, but this transaction was canceled because of Ford not holding up their end of the bargain. I never said she should ride for free.


Is this a help form or a let's just give pompous answers forum?
 

MDMachiavelli

Junior Member
You cited 3 points of contention. I addressed them. Sorry you did not want to hear the truth but rather that she could drive for free, get her old car paid off for free and incur no other unrecoverable expenses.
Where did I say in any way WHATSOEVER that she should drive for free?

Where did I say that she should get her old car paid off for free?

Where did I say that shouldn't incur any expenses?



I simply asked "Does she have any recourse, and what are her best options?"

By that I meant, can she appeal to the arbitration board to make payments.

Could she just keep the car maybe save some money and could she complete the buy back later when she has saved some money.

I said nothing even insinuating what you suggested, you just made those undue assumptions with nothing whatsoever in my post to suggest that is what I was alluding to.
 
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OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
If she does not like what they told her and is still within the appeal process window, she can appeal the decision for further specifics in the buyback process. Excluding mileage and her old car, how much are we talking? Were the amounts paid to the dealer or simply written off the cost? That is the only room I see for appeal. She would probably do better negotiating another new car. I'm sorry if my bluntness offends you.
 
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LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Mississippi

In 2015 my secretary purchased a brand new vehicle from a Ford Dealership using Ford Motor Credit. Immediately after buying the vehicle it had a reoccurring problem that was also a safety issue. It seems that the car randomly blew a fuse that caused her interior lights and her driving and tail lights to fail. She liked the car and at first wanted to keep it, so she wanted it fixed. She is also very detailed so she documented everything. Each time she sent it to be fix it came back with the same problem. Eventually she was left with no other choice but to file for arbitration. She easily won her hearing and Ford was ordered to buy back her car.

When she bought the vehicle, she traded in a vehicle that she was upside down on by about 2500.00 So the dealership advised her that they would take the car back but that she would be responsible for the amount he was upside down on, some rebates, and mileage. The total they wanted her to give back was between 4500 & 5000.00 dollars. They advised her, with little notice, that if she didn't come up with the cash they would not complete the arbitration decision and she would be stuck with the car. When she bought the vehicle they told her they would not add the upside down amount to her loan and that the rebates would cancel that out. Now that she is returning the car, not only are they sticking her with the upside down portion they are also charging her with numerous fees to jack up the about so she cannot complete the buy back.

After trying her best she could not come up with the money, they told her that they would allow her to buy another Ford and they would roll that outstanding balance into another Ford vehicle.

She is, and rightfully so, jaded by Ford and feels that this is a deceptive attempt to keep her with a Ford against her will?

Does she have any recourse, and what are her best options?

Thanks in advance.
The upside down amount on her previous car, 2500.00, is a valid amount that she should have to pay. I think that they are playing games with her a bit on all of the rest, and I think that she should take it back to arbitration.
 

MDMachiavelli

Junior Member
If she does not like what they told her and is still within the appeal process window, she can appeal the decision for further specifics in the buyback process. Excluding mileage and her old car, how much are we talking? Were the amounts paid to the dealer or simply written off the cost? That is the only room I see for appeal. She would probably do better negotiating another new car. I'm sorry if my bluntness offends you.

You didn't offend me.

You just assumed things I didn't say, and answered those assumptions in kind of a pompous way. But hey, maybe I should have been a little more clear and most people are probably expecting something for nothing so I see your side.

Either way, no big deal.

Again its not that she doesn't like what they said or that she thinks she shouldn't incur some financial responsibility, its just that she is not in a position financially to reap the benefits of the settlement. I think it is a travesty because of her situation that she has to continue to be stuck with a vehicle that is not only a lemon, but extremely unsafe for a young woman and two small children to be riding in. All because Ford did not live up to the "benefit of the bargain".

It would be different if there were no problems and this "contract" was void because of no fault of either party. But this was voided because of serious fault of the manufacturer.

You stated that Ford is not in the business of providing free rides, and paying off trade-ins for free, and I agree with you. But what about the time and money the buyer spent making the manufacturer do what they should have done to start with? It isn't like when she took her vehicle to the dealership the required # of times, they magically offered to buy her car back.

So what you are saying that when the manufacturer voids a contract (at their fault) it is only their time and money is what should be considered?

I'm not really even asking about getting out of the buyback fees, but since you brought it up why isn't the buyers time and money equally important? Especially since they are the one who hold no fault in the transaction whatsoever.

Speaking of the "benefit of the bargain" rule, most definitions I have seen say something like the aggrieved party is entitled from the breaching party everything they would have received from that agreement or be made whole before the contract was entered.

In my opinion this does not meet that standard.

My number one reason for posting my question was to see if there was any avenue for her uphold her end of the buy back WITHOUT the undue burden of writing a check for the full amount with little or no time to raise that kind of money. Being that she is the aggrieved party, should she not be able to have a means to meet her end of the buyback without having to write that check. How any young, working lower middle class people can write that kind of check, especially on short notice.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
You didn't offend me.

You just assumed things I didn't say, and answered those assumptions in kind of a pompous way. But hey, maybe I should have been a little more clear and most people are probably expecting something for nothing so I see your side.

Either way, no big deal.

Again its not that she doesn't like what they said or that she thinks she shouldn't incur some financial responsibility, its just that she is not in a position financially to reap the benefits of the settlement. I think it is a travesty because of her situation that she has to continue to be stuck with a vehicle that is not only a lemon, but extremely unsafe for a young woman and two small children to be riding in. All because Ford did not live up to the "benefit of the bargain".

It would be different if there were no problems and this "contract" was void because of no fault of either party. But this was voided because of serious fault of the manufacturer.

You stated that Ford is not in the business of providing free rides, and paying off trade-ins for free, and I agree with you. But what about the time and money the buyer spent making the manufacturer do what they should have done to start with? It isn't like when she took her vehicle to the dealership the required # of times, they magically offered to buy her car back.

So what you are saying that when the manufacturer voids a contract (at their fault) it is only their time and money is what should be considered?

I'm not really even asking about getting out of the buyback fees, but since you brought it up why isn't the buyers time and money equally important? Especially since they are the one who hold no fault in the transaction whatsoever.

Speaking of the "benefit of the bargain" rule, most definitions I have seen say something like the aggrieved party is entitled from the breaching party everything they would have received from that agreement or be made whole before the contract was entered.

In my opinion this does not meet that standard.

My number one reason for posting my question was to see if there was any avenue for her uphold her end of the buy back WITHOUT the undue burden of writing a check for the full amount with little or no time to raise that kind of money. Being that she is the aggrieved party, should she not be able to have a means to meet her end of the buyback without having to write that check. How any young, working lower middle class people can write that kind of check, especially on short notice.
Again, I think that she should head back to arbitration. Ideally what they really should be offering is to put her back in the same make, model and year car, with the same loan amount and terms as the previous deal. That does not appear to be what they are offering. It seems as though they want to recoup some of their costs.
 

MDMachiavelli

Junior Member
Again, I think that she should head back to arbitration. Ideally what they really should be offering is to put her back in the same make, model and year car, with the same loan amount and terms as the previous deal. That does not appear to be what they are offering. It seems as though they want to recoup some of their costs.

Thanks for your response.

I will definitely ask her to consider that. What could more arbitration accomplish?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Thanks for your response.

I will definitely ask her to consider that. What could more arbitration accomplish?
It could force them to stop playing games with the buyback. She is absolutely going to be responsible for the underwater amount on the car she traded in. The rest of it is playing games in my opinion. For example, the amount they are trying to charge her for mileage is absurd. This car is a lemon. Its not one that they can or should sell to someone else where mileage would reduce its value. Its a car that the manufacturer should EAT.
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
They will repair and resell the vehicle. It will just have a branded lemon law buy back history. The mileage will depreciate its value further. As I noted, if appealing or modifying the arbiters decision to clarify expenses related to the rebates/factory incentives saves a few thousand it is a good idea. That is why I asked how much they were asking for that particular amount.
 

MDMachiavelli

Junior Member
It could force them to stop playing games with the buyback. She is absolutely going to be responsible for the underwater amount on the car she traded in. The rest of it is playing games in my opinion. For example, the amount they are trying to charge her for mileage is absurd. This car is a lemon. Its not one that they can or should sell to someone else where mileage would reduce its value. Its a car that the manufacturer should EAT.

Couldn't agree more.
 

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