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  1. #1
    Shields1977 is offline Junior Member
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    Post 99.9% of Lies to Obtain a PPO Against Stalking

    Michigan: Montcalm County

    A 39 yr old lady obtained a "PPO Against Stalking by a Minor" against my 17 yr. old daughter. My daughter did hit her daughter ONCE, the girl ran and that was the end. We moved our daughter out of that school to avoid more situations. Her daughter started showing up at my daughter’s new school. I got very angry called and (stupid me) left a voicemail stating that if she didn't leave my daughter alone she would be 18 soon and I will handle it. That is literally the extent of all of it. 1 Hit, 1 Threat (on both of their voicemails)

    The request is all lies, 11 of 12 statements are lies and she marked Exparte.

    She also tried to file one against me. With 13 of 14 statements being lies. They did’t grant her Exparte against me. In court I was treated like all the statements were true, I told the judge I was able to prove ALL of them wrong IN WRITING and he refused to see them. He didn’t grant the PPO but said "make sure you stop harassing her, and by all means Mrs. B, if she does harass you come back and get the PPO," then told me to leave the court room and then he stayed behind with her in the courtroom.

    I have NEVER harassed this woman or her child. I did leave ONE voicemail each and that is literally the it.

    My question is Can I do ANYTHING since I am able to prove with documents that she lied to obtain the PPO against my daughter?

    ANYTHING? The prosecutor probably won't want to handle this, but there should be consequences against her for using the court system to obtain a PPO.<p>

    ****

    ~Full story, for those that are interested~

    I will call my daughter Kay and her daughter Mia.

    Kay and Mia have been friends since 4th grade. In Feb. they got in trouble together. I figured since they'd been friends since 4th grade I'd give them another chance. A month later Mia's mom texted me asking if Mia was at my home, "no I hadn't seen Mia since they'd gotten in trouble in Feb," she asked what trouble. She had NEVER heard about it and had been in another country when it happened.

    A week later (Betty) asked me if Mia could come stay a few days with us, she was going overseas to see her boyfriend. Her friend Cammy was going to be at their place for Mia and if Kay wanted to she could stay there too, sometimes. I knew who Cammy was, from CHURCH, I figured she was a moral person and being another parent that she could be trusted.

    March 19 the girls went to stay at Mia's. I spoke with Cammy and went through Kay's rules including no leaving once she got there. I last spoke with Kay at 11:50p, saying our goodnights.

    4am, Mia is on the phone freaking out saying “Kay may have taken something, I don’t know what’s wrong with her, she’s saying some effed up stuff, she’s not making sense, Cammy has to hold her down, she’s not responding to us, please come.” Out we go, we walk into the apartment and Mia’s points to the bedroom and says “Get her outta here the police have already been here twice because of her.” We get to the room Cammy is holding our daughter down. I take over sitting on her, restraining her arms and she can’t focus on my face, she’s not responding to her name and she is saying off the wall stuff. I can’t get her to look at me or even realize who I am. My husband calls 9-1-1, I trade holding her down, with my husband, and he actually struggles to stay in one spot she’s fighting so badly. (He’s 280#)

    The police show up and as we (Cammy and I) answer the door the cop IMMEDIATELY looks at her and says “She’s just sick huh, just puking, think she has the flu right?” Nothing but PURE irritation in his voice; looks at me says “We were here no more than hour ago and an hour or so prior to that,” “your daughter has been “sick”, Cammy swore that she was just in the bathroom puking really loudly and that she would be fine.” I look at Cammy and she says “I swear that’s all I thought, because Kay said “my belly hurts,” stood up to walk to the bathroom and hit the floor, so that’s what I thought.” I started questioning Mia, asking her what Kay took, what had they drank, where had they gone, she swore up and down she had no idea, swore to the cops she had no idea even IF she had taken anything, didn’t see her take anything. One of her exact phrases was “Kay was just talking about something called 2ce or something like that, but I don’t know if she had any.” I asked her to Google it so we could see what it was. We find out that it’s an hallucinogenic, call the main cop in and show him. He relays the information to the paramedics and they tell us that they can’t even try to counteract it if Mia wasn’t positive if that’s what Kay had taken.

    We get to the hospital. They had to strap her down with 6 straps to the backboard, restrain both wrists to the backboard (as she gouged her own legs). It’s a sight I will NEVER forget and can only say if you’ve ever seen the Excorcist the only move she didn’t make was completely spinning her whole neck around. Hospital wants to know what she took and all we can say is “we don’t know, the friends swears she has no idea and THINKS it might be something called 2ce or 2ci.” The doctor thinks it something he's heard of actually called C2E which is Ecstacy and Concerta mixed, but tells us that without being sure he can’t try to counteract it because mixing pharmaceuticals could kill her. The only thing he can do is give her Ativan and hope she comes down on her own. In 1 hour they had to give her 16mg of Ativan, 32x the amount for a 200# man, Kay is 110#.

    We heard from her “friend” Mia once asking how Kay was doing. Cammy texted with me saying she was working on Mia to get the truth, she knew Mia was lying!
    36 hours later, our daughter FINALLY woke up. She had tossed and turned a little bit and opened her eyes but was incoherent the whole time. She doesn’t remember ever opening her eyes or seeing anyone in that first 36 hours. When she finally came to we started asking questions.

    Mia is nothing less than a liar. Kay said “Mom, Mia knows what I took, she took some too, just not as much.” Then before it was able to kick in they had smoked pot. Turns out that Cammy had allowed them to leave moments after I spoke with Kay to “go hang out,” with some friends.

    40 hours after getting to the hospital Mia’s mom calls me, saying she had JUST found out what had. So we strike up these texting and phone conversations. Betty is saying how Cammy has been her best friend for 5 years, knows that Betty would never have allowed Mia to leave the house, can’t believe she did, she had told her Mia was allowed nowhere the whole time she was gone except my house and that Mia didn’t tell us because she was afraid of what we would think of her.

    After coming home (3 days later) Kay said she’d be fine to go back to school.

    The first day back to school Kay was approached by students completely surprised to see her telling her that Mia had personally told them that she was braindead, would be on a feeding tube and would need 24 hour nurses for the rest of her life. The kids were shocked to see Kay. Mia NEVER approached Kay to even say hi, much less be happy that she was alive and perfectly fine. Half way through day 1 Kay called and asked me if she could go home, the hurt was too much too handle in seeing Mia in the hallways and knowing she couldn’t have cared less if she had lived or died. Day 2 back at school the same thing happens, and Kay says she has to go home again. Then Kay got a call from the 3rd friend of the group (who had not been) to say she’s really upset that Mia had just confessed that a few hours after Kay was hauled off that Mia had called the boy Kay was seeing, asked him if she could come pick him up, did so, never told him Kay had went to the hospital, got completely obliviated stoned with him and then had sex with him. Kay was BEYOND a level of hurt that anyone should have to deal with especially at one time. She drove back up to the school was talking to some other kids at school and as she was walking out of the school saw Mia and just lost it. Punched her in the face, Mia ran, Kay chased after her but never got her. Kay went to class (instead of home), talked to the principal, finished out the day and then was on suspension for 5 days. That was the end of it!

    Or so we thought. The 5 day suspension was for the week prior to spring break and before it was over we decided to transfer her to a charter school. Kay’s first day at the new school she saw another student she knew, a good friend of Mia’s.

    On May 9, 2011, Kay called me “Mom, Mia is in my school with Tammy and you have to call the office I walked out of school and am in my car, please call and tell them to get her out of here, she came as close to me as she could and stopped, started laughing and talking to Tammy very loudly.” I called the office, made them aware of the situation and they escorted her off the property. I called them both, got both of their voicemails and left messages stating that Mia is to leave Kay alone or when she’s 18 I would deal with it. She then texts and tells me that they are trying to enroll Mia in that school for next year (even though she should have graduated this year).

    2 days later Kay is served with the Personal Protection Order, and I’m served with a hearing to appear for a Personal Protection Order. Both are filled with pure lies, which I can prove. She even contradicted herself from one PPO request to the other. Saying that my daughter assaulted her daughter when she should have been in class, and then on the other says it was when she was already suspended and that school records and videos prove that my daughter actually attacked hers a 2nd time, on school property. I've got a letter from the principal stating exactly the opposite.

    Is there ANYTHING I can do to have her face the judge for using the court system to lie and/or be charged with Libel and have to pay?!?!?!?
    Last edited by Shields1977; 05-21-2011 at 05:16 PM. Reason: Add paragraphs, for easier reading.
  2. #2
    Tex78704 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shields1977 View Post
    ...I got very angry called and (stupid me) left a voicemail stating that if she didn't leave my daughter alone she would be 18 soon and I will handle it...
    This incident, in and of itself, is very telling on your character. Such a threat is way beyond a "stupid me" rationalization, or what any reasonable person would do. Which was probably enough to sink the judges opinion of you from the getgo.

    That verified threat alone was sufficient cause for an ex parte. It was also sufficient for the judge to grant a PPO against you, but he chose not to... this time.

    As a practical matter, this case, and what was said and done in court is over and there is nothing more to be done. Anything stated in court falls under immunity protections, and generally libel and slander proof. A PPO was not issued against you. But even though 11 of 12 allegations against you are lies, the one that was valid is awful damning, and would have by itself legally supported a PPO. So the other stuff does not matter, since it arguably had no weight in the legal proceedings, other than to personally upset you.

    Mature intelligent adults know when to let something go and move on. Especially when it has to do with personal conflicts with "outsiders" who in the big picture of things are unimportant. The fact you continue with this lengthy diatribe and seek "any possible way" to exact revenge is very telling.

    Hopefully you do not pass along your ways of dealing with conflict to your daughter. Consider taking the high road and just dropping this and moving on, which would be best for all.
  3. #3
    Billy V is offline Junior Member
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    when was the order issued?
  4. #4
    Shields1977 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy V View Post
    when was the order issued?
    The order was issued on May 11th. I do still have time to put in a Motion to Terminate, which was originally our plan. Though on the advice of the legal experts I am not going to and that is strictly a strategic move because she is trying to enroll her daughter into the school my daughter attends. We believe 100% that it is strictly to antagonize my daughter.

    Responding to: Tex78704

    As far as the incident itself being "telling on your character," you can have that opinion. My thought behind it all, if you happened to read the whole story, was that my judgement failed for a moment due to my feelings as a mother to protect my daughter coming out full force.

    Believe me my daughter has been in a million squabbles with friends and had to deal with conflict as so many teen girls do. I have never gotten involved, I have never gotten upset. I lost my temper because this girl is harassing my daughter and now is doing so with the help of her 39 yr. old mother.

    I have actually taught my daughter to walk away in these types of situations, again if you read the whole story, you'll see that my daughter did just that when the girl showed up at her school and moved in very close to my daughter to make sure she would be antagonizing and maybe trying to provoke her. Who knows the thoughts, I'm very proud of my daughter for not reacting, and believe me I am quite upset that I, for the first time in my life responded as immaturely as I did, as this is not the person I am, ever have been, nor choose to be. I made an honestly bad decision, we've all done it in one way or another.

    You can say "mature, intelligent adults know when to let something go an move on," insinuating that I'm neither. Again, your opinion is based on one post I made and was 100% honest in and didn't try to make it look like I was 100% innocent. Obviously I wasn't. I am an operations manager for 3 multi-million dollar corporations, I think that alone speaks for my intelligence. It also speaks as to why I fought the PPO against me.

    I was not coming here looking for anyone to bash me. I am not looking for "revenge," I am looking for justice. It is not even slightly fair that this lady was able to lie in her requests. Had she told the truth regarding my daughter I guarantee you she would not have gotten Exparte, that's not to say it would have never been granted, who knows. I think that had she told the truth through the whole request the judge would not have been so quick to think I'm such a horrid person. He in fact even said so himself that the threat was a lapse in judgement and he understood the fact that a mother wants to protect her daughter. It was the rest of the stuff he commented on that he was upset over and they were all lies and I can prove them as such that has/had me concerned.

    I did not say "any possible way," (which would sound like a revenge seeking comment) I asked if there is anything that can be done for a woman who lies to a judge? It's not about revenge. It's about the women that deserve a PPO from stalking boyfriends who don't get them because women like this lie so often that judges don't always listen to the ones they should. It's about using the court system to gain something falsely. In my daughter's case, she actually has helped our case in keeping her daughter from harassing ours further, especially considering her daughter shows up at my daughters school twice a day and prior to my daughter going there, was NEVER there (according to school officials). In my case, I'm very lucky that the owner of the companies I work for knows me well enough that just heading to court did not skew his opinion about me, therefore not affecting my career.

    You did answer my question about the libel question and for that I thank you. If I understand the answer, anything said in court and court documents is basically privileged information that does not fall under the libel/slander laws?
  5. #5
    quincy is offline Senior Member
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    I don't want to second guess the decision you made not to fight the issuance of the PPO, especially if the "legal experts" you consulted are attorneys. They have access to all of the facts of your situation and I do not.

    However, I would generally think it wise to, if not fight the PPO entirely, at least fight to make the PPO a "mutual" one - where it is agreed that your daughter will have no contact with her friend and her friend will have no contact with your daughter. You can present whatever 'evidence' you have at the time of the hearing.

    A mutual protection order seems a fair and equitable solution and will not single out one child as being the victim. It appears from what you have posted that both children are victims and they need protection from each other.

    As for defamation, your understanding is correct. Statements made in the course of or in reference to a judicial proceeding by any of the actors in the proceeding (the judge, the parties, the witnesses, the attorneys...) are absolutely privileged and will be protected from any defamation suit that could otherwise arise from the statements.

    Should defamatory statements stray from this area of privilege and protection, however, then a defamation suit could be considered.
    Last edited by quincy; 05-22-2011 at 03:20 PM.

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