Church Libel?

[mswaney93]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? DE
My ex husband and I used to go to a church close to where we lived. I stopped going around Nov 2009. He continued to go. We were having marital problems and truthfully I was just not interested in that church. He continued to go. In March of last year, we separated. We both had been dating other people while still sharing the same house for a short time. We knew the marriage was done for some time before. We both began living with other people. I began receiving emails from one of the pastors of this church shortly after moving out telling me I was doing the wrong things and I needed to repent. I shouldn't be living with someone, blah, blah, blah...I told him he needed to make sure he talked with someone who actually went to his church. I do not go there anymore and do not consider myself a member. These emails continued and intensified (especially as my ex began telling him things that were not true). He (the pastor) brought my story before a few other men (again let me remind you I have not been to this church in over a year). They started sending me certified mail telling me they were having meetings to decide my fate at the church which again I reminded them I would not ever be attending there again and please take me off their church rolls. Do not contact me again or I will forced to contact the local police. I just found out they sent out a letter to 400 people or more stating that I had been excommunicating me because I had not repented of my sins and listed specific scriptures. On top of this, I also found out that my ex sent a letter and withdrew his membership before the congregation found out that he had "sinned" like me and then married and divorced. As well, the pastor has been telling people that the church had "extensively with _________ and ___________ on their marriage over the years." Obviously, indicating that my "sins" were to blame. Is this libel or slander or defamation of character? Thanks for any help on this.

Overwhelmed,

mswaney

 

[Antigone*]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? DE
My ex husband and I used to go to a church close to where we lived. I stopped going around Nov 2009. He continued to go. We were having marital problems and truthfully I was just not interested in that church. He continued to go. In March of last year, we separated. We both had been dating other people while still sharing the same house for a short time. We knew the marriage was done for some time before. We both began living with other people. I began receiving emails from one of the pastors of this church shortly after moving out telling me I was doing the wrong things and I needed to repent. I shouldn't be living with someone, blah, blah, blah...I told him he needed to make sure he talked with someone who actually went to his church. I do not go there anymore and do not consider myself a member. These emails continued and intensified (especially as my ex began telling him things that were not true). He (the pastor) brought my story before a few other men (again let me remind you I have not been to this church in over a year). They started sending me certified mail telling me they were having meetings to decide my fate at the church which again I reminded them I would not ever be attending there again and please take me off their church rolls. Do not contact me again or I will forced to contact the local police. I just found out they sent out a letter to 400 people or more stating that I had been excommunicating me because I had not repented of my sins and listed specific scriptures. On top of this, I also found out that my ex sent a letter and withdrew his membership before the congregation found out that he had "sinned" like me and then married and divorced. As well, the pastor has been telling people that the church had "extensively with _________ and ___________ on their marriage over the years." Obviously, indicating that my "sins" were to blame. Is this libel or slander or defamation of character? Thanks for any help on this.

Overwhelmed,

mswaney

Tell them thank you for the excommunication and that you partied and celebrated at the thought of being free. Tell them that when they become God and stop sinning you'll listen.

Until then you will worship the god of your choice in the manner of your choice and if that means worshiing the church mouse who hallows their halls that you'll feel free to do so.

Unfortunately unless they were spreading lies about you, and unless you have several thousand dollars to fight a losing case in court, you don't have a case.

 

[mswaney93]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? DE
I just found out they sent out a letter to 400 people or more stating that I had been excommunicating me because I had not repented of my sins and listed specific scriptures. As well, the pastor has been telling people that the church had "extensively with _________ and ___________ on their marriage over the years."

Wouldn't that be considered libel or defamation of character? I KNOW that the email that has been sent to at least two members has information that is definitely false. The letter that has been sent out has information in it that makes me look like I'm leading a life of "debauchery". Of course, that word would be open to interpretation, but I doubt a jury would be swayed in their favor (in that term only). On the other hand and I know many say this, I cannot for the life of me think of a monetary figure that would be fair nor is there something that can be done to take back the damage they have done. Is this something worth pursuing?

mswaney

 

[Dave1952]

As I understand you, you are claiming that your ex-husband has spread lies about you that resulted in being excommunicated from a church that you do not wish to belong to. The church then circulated a note to it's congregation informing them that you had been excommunicated.
Why do you wish to sue the church?

Good luck

 

[justalayman]

Is this something worth pursuing?

mswaney

from what you have said; no.

I don't see any defamation. It appears there is truth in their statements especially when you review the statements in the light of the position a church has on such matters. There is nothing defamatory about them informing others, (and those others were most likely their parishioners, correct?) of their actions to excommunicate you. If they had spoken to both of you at some time about your marriage, while the extensive counseling may be puffery, it surely isn't defamation.

 

[fraudwatch]

He certainly sounds like he was/is harassing you. His repeated and intensified emails would fit the legal definition of Delaware laws concerning harassing/stalking, especially if you told him to stop.

11 Del. C. § 1312. Stalking; class G felony, class F felony, class C felony.
(a) A person is guilty of stalking when the person knowingly engages in a course of conduct directed at a specific person and that conduct would cause a reasonable person to:
(2) Suffer other significant mental anguish or distress that may, but does not necessarily, require medical or other professional treatment or counseling.

11 Del. C. § 1311. Harassment; class B misdemeanor.
(a) A person is guilty of harassment when, with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person:
(2) Communicates with a person by telephone, telegraph, mail or any other form of written or electronic communication in a manner which the person knows is likely to cause annoyance.

Is this libel or slander or defamation of character?

Probably not. Some in the "church" like to think it owns you, and will attempt to exert control over it's "errant members" including public shaming, threats of damnation, condemnation, and other assorted guilt inducing tactics, in an effort to induce conformity/compliance. If it fails, they shun you. It seems that "your" church thinks that this type of behavior is acceptable, or even exemplary. Personally, I think it is detestable, and priests, pastors, are not immune to our laws or culpability for unacceptable antisocial behavior such as bullying.

 

[justalayman]

OP can obviously contact the police but that does not appear to be the desired action as supported by:

I cannot for the life of me think of a monetary figure that would be fair nor is there something that can be done to take back the damage they have done. Is this something worth pursuing?

Of OP wants to file a complaint with the police, then she should do so, or actually should have already. The fact this has been going on over a period of a year or so will be seen by the police as "if it was such a big deal, why didn't you call us before?".

The church might get a visit by the police and be warned of future contact but that is likely as far as it will go based on what has happened already.

 

[QueenofEngland]

You've got nothing actionable. They excommunicated you for what you admit you did do. Basically what they've done is banned you from returning to the church, if you were to decide at a later time you wanted to. Libel involves lying about someone to cause them harm or loss.

Brush it off. Fundamental churches commit bigger and worse sins than excommunicating members.

 

[mswaney93]

Why do you wish to sue the church?

Not sure if I want to or not...still debating..I want them to "pay" for what they have done to me. Although again, no amount of money would do that. A written apology or a public apology would be great but they wouldn't do it because they do not feel they have done any wrong and really would a lawsuit even help there? Probably not. My ex was living with someone, married that person, separated from that person, dated two other people, and was not excommunicated, his name was not dragged through the mud, emails were not sent to anyone about him, and a letter was not sent out to 400 plus people telling some "sins" that I was involved in which I don't really agree I did them etc, etc. He was also "allowed" to withdraw his membership where I was not. I was told I would have to be excommunicated. For a while now, they have been fairly quiet about everything. However, now they are beginning to spread things about me. I live in a relatively small town where I have lived my entire life so reputation means a lot.

 

[mswaney93]

I sent a letter (certified of course) stating the delaware codes for stalking and harassment letting them know that the next step would be contacting the police if anymore contact is made.

Personally, I think it is detestable, and priests, pastors, are not immune to our laws or culpability for unacceptable antisocial behavior such as bullying.

I completely agree which is why this whole thing angers me so much. Why do we as a society let this kind of thing happen? It's ridiculous! And I can say, without a doubt in my case, it is because I am a woman, that I am being picked on. It's NOT because of my so-called sins. It's bc of my gender and that's it. My biggest issue right now is to fight it or just brush it off.

mswaney

 

[Iwonder?]

Thanks

I was gonna go to church today. I retreived a bible from the street and found the owner and she invited me to this Church thing.. . a bit of a Bible thumper she was, but it was like History of the Bible type lesson. Who knew if they knew I bought and sold literature that mentions superpowers... ie comics and I would be banned from further teachings. But I was gonna go I love History.

OP I am not making light of your plight. I feel your pain... just be okay. It doesn't matter what people think of you if you are alright. Unless you are a psychopath which I hope you are not. Oher people can hurt you but not make you less you, unless you make them.

 

[Searchertwin]

Two things to remember:

1) Sticks and stones.....
2) Next email sent or someone says something to you, your reply, "John 8:7
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

What bothers me most about your post is the part where you stated, "some "sins" that I was involved in which I don't really agree I did them etc,"
If one of the sins refers to living with other people while still married, how can you not see that is wrong? It is one of the 10 Commandants set by God which we are to follow.

I really think you are trying to make this a discrimination thing instead of the real issue, hoping to gain more money. You stated, "And I can say, without a doubt in my case, it is because I am a woman, that I am being picked on. It's bc of my gender ."

I feel since I am a woman it was left up to me to raise the kids. This is just wrong. It's because of my gender. Do you see how silly it sounds?

You have no case, your feelings were hurt and you are just angry. Don't let your anger be another downfall for you. Learn to forgive and let it go.

 

[mswaney93]

These things are much easier said when you don't have 400 plus people in your business that werent a part of it before.

Two things to remember:

1) Sticks and stones.....
2) Next email sent or someone says something to you, your reply, "John 8:7
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

I don't agree with what they have said in their letter because it is not true...

QUOTE=searchertwin;2756698] I really think you are trying to make this a discrimination thing instead of the real issue, hoping to gain more money. You stated, "And I can say, without a doubt in my case, it is because I am a woman, that I am being picked on. It's bc of my gender ."

I feel since I am a woman it was left up to me to raise the kids. This is just wrong. It's because of my gender. Do you see how silly it sounds?[/QUOTE]


It is a discrimination issue bc that is what it is. I have said on more than one issue that I could care about the money. I would love a public apology but like i said I doubt that would happen. Please listen to what I am saying. My ex did what I did which is something horrible in their eyes and then married, divorced again, moved in with another woman, HOWEVER, he was not excommunicated or anything. There are other men in the congregation that have done the same thing with no excommunication. That is why I am saying it is bc of my gender NOT bc I want money. I actually find that offensive. Again though, there is not really anything that can be done to give that back, not money or even an apology. However, I do feel these people need to learn that they do not have the right to do this to people. They are not allowed to send emails to other people about me stating things that are not true. They are not allowed to send letters out excommunicating me stating things that are not true.

As for moving on, I am trying to. Everytime I think things are nice and calm, I receive a phone call or email from a member asking me is _________ true? They heard such and such from the leadership or received an email stating such and such. Again, I feel most people would find it hard to "forgive" with such fresh wounds.

mswaney

 

[quincy]

mswaney, if your letter does not work to stop the church communications, it may be necessary to file an harassment complaint with the police, as suggested by fraudwatch and justalayman.

If you are only looking for an apology, however, it is awfully hard to force one, even through a legal action, and an apology, even if sincere, will not take back what has already been communicated. You will still have to live with the fall-out from the original communications.

You have already been told by the other posters here that the publication of true information, even when the true information is reputationally injurious, would not be defamation. One of the elements of defamation is that the communication is false.

And, if the information distributed about you is reputationally injurious but is viewed by the church as true, even if you view the information as false, a defamation suit becomes complicated (although, perhaps, not entirely impossible). A suit under these conditions could be compared to a suit over red-green color blindness - the church may see red, you may see green, but both would be true. And, again, a defense of truth would (generally) defeat a claim of defamation.

Two legal options that have not been discussed yet, and which you may wish to discuss with an attorney in your area who has the ability to review all of the facts, are Delaware's invasion of privacy torts, publication of private facts and false light.

The elements needed for the publication of private facts tort are that the facts are ones not generally known to others, are (generally) of an intimate nature, and the private facts are given wide distribution. The private facts and their disclosure must be seen as offensive to a reasonable person of ordinary sensibilities. If the posters who have responded to this thread so far can be considered "reasonable people of ordinary sensibilities," any claim you pursue under this tort may be a hard sell.

The false light tort is similar to defamation but the statements made to others are true but they imply something false.

You may wish to consider, before consulting with an attorney, what the possible consequences could be of taking any legal action against the church, even if you learn you have enough to support a possible winning action. Court actions, besides being time-consuming and costly, also become public records accessible to anyone. These public court records can appear on background checks performed by employers and these public court records can appear online with a search of your name.

In other words, any legal action may provide for an even wider distribution of your private facts.

With all of that said, and depending on how much injury to your reputation can be demonstrated, you might want to sit down with an attorney - go over the facts, determine what options are available, weigh the pros and cons of pursuing any of them.

Good luck.