defamation by ex-gf

[johnson121]

My ex-gf is trying to damage my reputation by sending an email to my friends and business partners containing false statements. Below are quotes from the email she sent to two executives at the company I work with copying me. Please advise me if these statements are sufficient for a defamation lawsuit. Also, I have no idea what else she would do; thus, is there a legal mechanism to make her stop defaming me? All parties involved live in California.

As a background, I recently disputed a credit card charge that I made to my ex’s friend who is a dress designer, John. I paid John to make a dress and give it to me; he unilaterally gave it to my ex instead. Hence, I disputed this with my credit card company, and after their independent investigation, they determined that I am to be credited back as I did not receive the product I paid for.

Here are quotes from the email she sent to the two executives. Adam is myself (all names were altered for privacy).

“Now, because I had decided I did not want Adam involved in my life anymore, Adam decided to commit chargeback fraud by claiming that the dress "was not received". This is fraud and your associate, Adam, has no problem committing it.”

“I warn you that associating your business with someone so willing to mess up other peoples lives because they cannot handle their own emotional instability is a horrible idea. I recommend you think twice before working with him again.”*

“And truthfully, I would not be getting involved in this situation at all because he did not screw me over, he screwed over an innocent third party man, John, who is just trying to make a living. I am getting involved because I know what is happening to John right now and he does not deserve to be submitted to Adam's immature antics.”

“I hope you understand I do not mean to offend, however Adam is refusing to answer and honestly being a very very little boy.”

 

[Ohiogal]

My ex-gf is trying to damage my reputation by sending an email to my friends and business partners containing false statements. Below are quotes from the email she sent to two executives at the company I work with copying me. Please advise me if these statements are sufficient for a defamation lawsuit. Also, I have no idea what else she would do; thus, is there a legal mechanism to make her stop defaming me? All parties involved live in California.

As a background, I recently disputed a credit card charge that I made to my ex’s friend who is a dress designer, John. I paid John to make a dress and give it to me; he unilaterally gave it to my ex instead. Hence, I disputed this with my credit card company, and after their independent investigation, they determined that I am to be credited back as I did not receive the product I paid for.

Here are quotes from the email she sent to the two executives. Adam is myself (all names were altered for privacy).

“Now, because I had decided I did not want Adam involved in my life anymore, Adam decided to commit chargeback fraud by claiming that the dress "was not received". This is fraud and your associate, Adam, has no problem committing it.”

“I warn you that associating your business with someone so willing to mess up other peoples lives because they cannot handle their own emotional instability is a horrible idea. I recommend you think twice before working with him again.”*

“And truthfully, I would not be getting involved in this situation at all because he did not screw me over, he screwed over an innocent third party man, John, who is just trying to make a living. I am getting involved because I know what is happening to John right now and he does not deserve to be submitted to Adam's immature antics.”

“I hope you understand I do not mean to offend, however Adam is refusing to answer and honestly being a very very little boy.”

Those are opinions and not actionable. For whom did you pay John to make a dress? Was it made for you to wear or your ex-gf to wear? Did you ask your ex-gf for the dress to be returned? While your ex-gf is not being nice, that does not mean she is defaming you.

 

[LdiJ]

My ex-gf is trying to damage my reputation by sending an email to my friends and business partners containing false statements. Below are quotes from the email she sent to two executives at the company I work with copying me. Please advise me if these statements are sufficient for a defamation lawsuit. Also, I have no idea what else she would do; thus, is there a legal mechanism to make her stop defaming me? All parties involved live in California.

As a background, I recently disputed a credit card charge that I made to my ex’s friend who is a dress designer, John. I paid John to make a dress and give it to me; he unilaterally gave it to my ex instead. Hence, I disputed this with my credit card company, and after their independent investigation, they determined that I am to be credited back as I did not receive the product I paid for.

Here are quotes from the email she sent to the two executives. Adam is myself (all names were altered for privacy).

“Now, because I had decided I did not want Adam involved in my life anymore, Adam decided to commit chargeback fraud by claiming that the dress "was not received". This is fraud and your associate, Adam, has no problem committing it.”

“I warn you that associating your business with someone so willing to mess up other peoples lives because they cannot handle their own emotional instability is a horrible idea. I recommend you think twice before working with him again.”*

“And truthfully, I would not be getting involved in this situation at all because he did not screw me over, he screwed over an innocent third party man, John, who is just trying to make a living. I am getting involved because I know what is happening to John right now and he does not deserve to be submitted to Adam's immature antics.”

“I hope you understand I do not mean to offend, however Adam is refusing to answer and honestly being a very very little boy.”

Sounds to me like she made truthful statements combined with personal opinion.

Apparently you commissioned and paid for John to design and make a dress for your ex girlfriend.

After you broke up, you decided that the dress was your property and therefore the finished product should have been delivered to you. Based on reading between the lines, it appears that you did not communicate that to John prior to the dress being delivered to your ex. You then did a chargeback and won, thus screwing over the innocent third party.

Telling the truth is not defaming someone. Expressing an opinion based on truthful facts is not defamation. You might possibly have some other cause of action, but you would need to consult with a local attorney to see if that is the case.

However, honestly, it sounds to me like you did behave immaturely.

 

[johnson121]

Thanks for your comments. Just to clarify, I asked John to give me the dress so that I give it to her as a gift such that I can take the credit of the gift. He not only didn't do that but rather gave it to her claiming that he took care of the cost; indeed he is the one who committed "fraud".

Bottom line is that she is unsubstancially accusing me of committing not only unethical acts but also illegal ones. Wouldn't that be considered defamation?

Requirements for defamation:
1. published: sent to two third parties
2. false: accusations of illegal acts were clearly made above
3. injurious: addressing this to two executives was not only damaging to one's reputation but has further damaging consequences
4. unprivileged

 

[Silverplum]

Thanks for your comments. Just to clarify, I asked John to give me the dress so that I give it to her as a gift such that I can take the credit of the gift. He not only didn't do that but rather gave it to her claiming that he took care of the cost; indeed he is the one who committed "fraud".

Bottom line is that she is unsubstancially accusing me of committing not only unethical acts but also illegal ones. Wouldn't that be considered defamation?

Requirements for defamation:
1. published: sent to two third parties
2. false: accusations of illegal acts were clearly made above
3. injurious: addressing this to two executives was not only damaging to one's reputation but has further damaging consequences
4. unprivileged

Sounds homeworky. Or Seinfeldy (the BIG salad!)

 

[Ohiogal]

Thanks for your comments. Just to clarify, I asked John to give me the dress so that I give it to her as a gift such that I can take the credit of the gift. He not only didn't do that but rather gave it to her claiming that he took care of the cost; indeed he is the one who committed "fraud".

Bottom line is that she is unsubstancially accusing me of committing not only unethical acts but also illegal ones. Wouldn't that be considered defamation?

Requirements for defamation:
1. published: sent to two third parties
2. false: accusations of illegal acts were clearly made above
3. injurious: addressing this to two executives was not only damaging to one's reputation but has further damaging consequences
4. unprivileged

You had it made for her. It was given to her. You were to pay for it. At this juncture, he has taken care of the cost because YOU charged back what was to have been paid. In other words, he had to absorb that cost unless he got the dress back and could resell it.

The more you write, the more immature you are appearing. You did commit fraud by stating the dress was not received when it was received by the person for whom it was bought. You could have taken credit of the gift by telling her about it. Instead, you lied to the credit card company that it was NOT received when it was received by the person for whom it was made. You therefore did not commit fraud. John didn't.

You really need to grow up. As does she, but she is not here. Do the right thing and pay for the dress. Then if you want it back from her, SUE HER.

 

[Proserpina]

Thanks for your comments. Just to clarify, I asked John to give me the dress so that I give it to her as a gift such that I can take the credit of the gift. He not only didn't do that but rather gave it to her claiming that he took care of the cost; indeed he is the one who committed "fraud".

Bottom line is that she is unsubstancially accusing me of committing not only unethical acts but also illegal ones. Wouldn't that be considered defamation?

Requirements for defamation:
1. published: sent to two third parties
2. false: accusations of illegal acts were clearly made above
3. injurious: addressing this to two executives was not only damaging to one's reputation but has further damaging consequences
4. unprivileged

Do you have $50k and several years to waste knowing you'll get absolutely nothing in return (not even court costs ... )?

If so, go for it.

 

[quincy]

�Now, because I had decided I did not want Adam involved in my life anymore, Adam decided to commit chargeback fraud by claiming that the dress "was not received". This is fraud and your associate, Adam, has no problem committing it.�

�I warn you that associating your business with someone so willing to mess up other peoples lives because they cannot handle their own emotional instability is a horrible idea. I recommend you think twice before working with him again.�*

�And truthfully, I would not be getting involved in this situation at all because he did not screw me over, he screwed over an innocent third party man, John, who is just trying to make a living. I am getting involved because I know what is happening to John right now and he does not deserve to be submitted to Adam's immature antics.�

�I hope you understand I do not mean to offend, however Adam is refusing to answer and honestly being a very very little boy.�

The emails I have quoted above have content that is substantially true.

In addition, because of the way the emails are worded, an employer would be unlikely to take what was written seriously. If what is said is not believed, it does not lead to the reputational injury necessary to support a defamation lawsuit.

The use of the words "mess up" and "screw" and "screwed over" helps to doom the letters. The emails read very much like a Facebook post written by a disgruntled high school student.

Here are links to California's Jury Instructions for defamation (both per se and per quod) and a link to the Digital Media Law Project's overview of California defamation law:

https://www.justia.com/trials-litigation/docs/caci/1700/

https://www.justia.com/trials-litigation/docs/caci/1700/1704.html

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-defamation-law

You can always run the emails by an attorney in your area (he might like the money ), but I do not see that the emails can easily support any legal action.

Good luck.

 

[Stowe]

Instead of asking here, you should consult with an attorney.

 

[quincy]

Instead of asking here, you should consult with an attorney.

That is always best.

In fact, if not mentioned specifically in the posts created by the members of this forum, the NOTICE at the bottom of every page of this forum states very clearly that no information provided on this forum is a substitute for personal advice from an attorney licensed to practice in a poster's jurisdiction that the poster has retained to represent him/her. This is also noted in the Terms and Conditions a poster agrees to when registering on this site.

There is a lot of stuff that appears on the internet that is garbage. One always needs to look at the source of information to determine the source's reliability. Even then, all legal information should be verified by an attorney in the poster's own jurisdiction. No forum is able to access all of the facts necessary (from both parties in a legal situation) to provide anything but the most basic of advice and direction.

That said, this forum tends to keep most garbage in check by correcting misinformation when discovered or by reporting the posts that contain misinformation if what is posted strays too far from truth and accuracy.

 

[Just Blue]

Sounds homeworky. Or Seinfeldy (the BIG salad!)

No Soup for you!!

 

[quincy]

Sounds homeworky. Or Seinfeldy (the BIG salad!)

I think what has been posted sounds fictional but not as well written as a homework assignment or a Seinfeld episode.

And yet, I have often been surprised by the real acts and actions of some people.

 

[commentator]

In my years of dealing with employees and employers I have found that this situation, e.g. the ex girlfriend, husband, wife, sister in law, whatever, writing up and sending defamatory letters or calls or messages to a person's employer in an effort to get them fired, get them in trouble, cause people to think less of them to be remarkably common. Most reputable employers don't pay any attention to this sort of thing. As you said, it sounds like a high school Facebook posting by a vengeful ex, about something that does not directly impact the employer one bit. Why would they waste time or thought on it?

If it is something they think is worth checking on, they may choose to check it out, for example if the person says the employee is stealing from the employer, they may decide to examine his/her records more closely. They've got every right to do so. But most of the time, even in this sort of case, no real damage will be done if you have proactively dealt with it, you aren't stealing from them, and your work is exemplary otherwise and they're not just looking for a reason to fire you anyway.

 

[johnson121]

In my years of dealing with employees and employers I have found that this situation, e.g. the ex girlfriend, husband, wife, sister in law, whatever, writing up and sending defamatory letters or calls or messages to a person's employer in an effort to get them fired, get them in trouble, cause people to think less of them to be remarkably common. Most reputable employers don't pay any attention to this sort of thing. As you said, it sounds like a high school Facebook posting by a vengeful ex, about something that does not directly impact the employer one bit. Why would they waste time or thought on it?

If it is something they think is worth checking on, they may choose to check it out, for example if the person says the employee is stealing from the employer, they may decide to examine his/her records more closely. They've got every right to do so. But most of the time, even in this sort of case, no real damage will be done if you have proactively dealt with it, you aren't stealing from them, and your work is exemplary otherwise and they're not just looking for a reason to fire you anyway.

Thanks for your input.

As her statements accuse me of committing the crime of fraud against the credit card company, it’s my understanding that the law does not require me to prove that I sustained damages, because the general legal principle that applies to these situations states that where a defendant's false and derogatory statements accuse a Plaintiff of the commission of a crime, the Plaintiff is not required to prove damages or the extent of his damages because the law presumes that a Plaintiff has sustained damages when the defendant makes false statements to third parties that the Plaintiff has committed a crime.

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks for your input.

As her statements accuse me of committing the crime of fraud against the credit card company, it’s my understanding that the law does not require me to prove that I sustained damages, because the general legal principle that applies to these situations states that where a defendant's false and derogatory statements accuse a Plaintiff of the commission of a crime, the Plaintiff is not required to prove damages or the extent of his damages because the law presumes that a Plaintiff has sustained damages when the defendant makes false statements to third parties that the Plaintiff has committed a crime.

She did not accuse you of committing a crime. She accused you of screwing over an innocent third party just because you could. Unfortunately, that was exactly what you did. She did not accuse you of criminal behavior she accused you of immoral/unethical behavior.

On top of that you cannot be awarded damages in a lawsuit for defamation unless you can substantiate damages. And even if there was somehow some nebulous law (for example) that stated that you could collect say, 25k for defamation even if you could not prove damages, then you would have to actually be able to collect from her. Since the US does not have debtor's prison, she is not going to go to jail if you cannot collect from her.

On top of that you would have to pay an attorney (because no attorney would take your case on contingency) so you would actually be throwing potentially 10s of thousands of dollars chasing a potential pipe dream.

And to reiterate, as far as I am concerned you really did act very immaturely. You really did punish an innocent third party because your ex broke up with you. So, I am not on your side morally or ethically at all.