Fired from job on verbal false charges

[no1texan]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas
After having worked for a church as the primary accountant for 5 years, making many improvements in reporting and internal controls, I was fired without warning and escorted out of the building. The firing came from the new pastor who had been at the church only 2 months and the chair of the personnel committee. The pastor I worked for the 5 years moved to another church just 3 months before. The previous pastor wrote up my performance appraisal 4 months prior and it was a very positive high marks appraisal. Never in my 5 years of employment was I disciplined in the slightest way. When I came to the church I had over 40 years professional accounting experience. Before I was fired, 5 days prior I was called to meet with the personnel committee. During the meeting the new pastor and the chair of the personnel committee charged me with all kinds of errors, mistakes in my job. The charges were all verbal and were spoken so fast that I was not able to take adequate notes nor no time to defend myself. The dialogue went on for about an hour and half to the point that I began to feel sick. I said I can't take any more of this and got up and left. That was a Thursday night. And this all happened in front of the personnel committee made up of volunteers from the church whom I knew and worked with during my 5 years. By what was said, being verbal and not supported with evidence in writing, in my opinion prejudiced the opinion of those church members whom I considered to be my friends. The following Tuesday morning, the new pastor and chair of the personnel committee fired me, escorted me out of the office in front of my staff friends. The people in the church had to have learned that I was no longer there and must have asked where was I, what happened because they were caring kind of people. They were told something, which I have not leaned what, by the pastor. Whatever he told them was not true. I can defend every charge they brought against me especially if they would make a specific identification. But their charges were verbal and general. Later in the churches website, they made reference to me by saying, "Now that _______(used my name) has departed, we need to assess how the office is operated/run. By making this statement, they are saying I took the action to leave but this is not true. I have a copy of their written statement to the church's pension office that I was terminated. So they have said I was terminated in writing but on their website they said I departed, i.e. my action to leave. They fired me on unsupported grounds, verbal and false.

 

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas
After having worked for a church as the primary accountant for 5 years, making many improvements in reporting and internal controls, I was fired without warning and escorted out of the building. The firing came from the new pastor who had been at the church only 2 months and the chair of the personnel committee. The pastor I worked for the 5 years moved to another church just 3 months before. The previous pastor wrote up my performance appraisal 4 months prior and it was a very positive high marks appraisal. Never in my 5 years of employment was I disciplined in the slightest way. When I came to the church I had over 40 years professional accounting experience. Before I was fired, 5 days prior I was called to meet with the personnel committee. During the meeting the new pastor and the chair of the personnel committee charged me with all kinds of errors, mistakes in my job. The charges were all verbal and were spoken so fast that I was not able to take adequate notes nor no time to defend myself. The dialogue went on for about an hour and half to the point that I began to feel sick. I said I can't take any more of this and got up and left. That was a Thursday night. And this all happened in front of the personnel committee made up of volunteers from the church whom I knew and worked with during my 5 years. By what was said, being verbal and not supported with evidence in writing, in my opinion prejudiced the opinion of those church members whom I considered to be my friends. The following Tuesday morning, the new pastor and chair of the personnel committee fired me, escorted me out of the office in front of my staff friends. The people in the church had to have learned that I was no longer there and must have asked where was I, what happened because they were caring kind of people. They were told something, which I have not leaned what, by the pastor. Whatever he told them was not true. I can defend every charge they brought against me especially if they would make a specific identification. But their charges were verbal and general. Later in the churches website, they made reference to me by saying, "Now that _______(used my name) has departed, we need to assess how the office is operated/run. By making this statement, they are saying I took the action to leave but this is not true. I have a copy of their written statement to the church's pension office that I was terminated. So they have said I was terminated in writing but on their website they said I departed, i.e. my action to leave. They fired me on unsupported grounds, verbal and false.

You can be fired for something they believe is right, even if that belief is erroneous.

What do you wish to accomplish?

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas
... worked for a church as the primary accountant for 5 years ... I was fired without warning and escorted out of the building ... 5 days prior I was called to meet with the personnel committee ... the chair of the personnel committee charged me with all kinds of errors, mistakes in my job. The charges were all verbal and were spoken so fast that I was not able to take adequate notes nor no time to defend myself. ... this all happened in front of the personnel committee made up of volunteers ... being verbal and not supported with evidence in writing, in my opinion prejudiced the opinion of those church members whom I considered to be my friends. ... The people in the church had to have learned that I was no longer there and must have asked where was I, what happened ... They were told something, which I have not leaned what, by the pastor. Whatever he told them was not true. I can defend every charge they brought against me especially if they would make a specific identification. But their charges were verbal and general. Later in the churches website, they made reference to me by saying, "Now that _______(used my name) has departed, we need to assess how the office is operated/run. By making this statement, they are saying I took the action to leave but this is not true. I have a copy of their written statement to the church's pension office that I was terminated. So they have said I was terminated in writing but on their website they said I departed, i.e. my action to leave. They fired me on unsupported grounds, verbal and false.

The decision was made by the personnel committee to terminate your employment, stating "errors, mistakes" were made. Because nothing said in the meeting was in writing, and you say the statements made were "general" rather than specific, you would need to rely on those who attended the meeting.

They would need to support that statements about errors and mistakes were made and that implied was that the errors and mistakes were significant.

You would also want to know if there is any document of any kind that supports the truth of the statements that errors or mistakes were made by you.

You apparently have nothing to support your belief that your friends in the church were told anything false about the reasons for your departure, although the church is apparently saying that it was your choice to leave. Saying you were fired is not nearly as positive a public statement as saying the decision to leave was yours (and you DID choose to walk out of the meeting instead of defend yourself against any claims made against you, so in some ways it WAS your decision to leave).

Questioning your ability as an accountant could potentially be defamatory if you are an accountant by profession, but I am not seeing that you have a lot to support a defamation claim right now. I suggest you sit down with an attorney in your area for a review of all facts.

Good luck.

 

[cbg]

Saying that "(your name) has departed" is ambiguous. It says neither that your leaving was voluntary nor that it was involuntary. Statements like this are made usually for the the purpose of avoiding saying that you were fired, NOT because your termination was illegal (more on that in a minute) but to protect you from having the stigma of a firing within the church.

Church hierarchy can be twisty. In my denomination, in most cases (not quite all) there would have to be a vote of the congregation to dismiss any staff member. I take it that is not the case in yours or you would have said so. It is NOT the case in all denominations but mine is New England based and we all have a "town meeting" mindset.

If you read my signature, you will read what is meant by a wrongful term. As long as the rules for your particular church are followed, the termination was legal. 49 out of 50 state, including Texas, are "at will" states, meaning that you can be fired for any reason not specifically prohibited by law, including no reason or a mistaken reason. (The 50th state, Montana, follows the at-will doctrine in some situations.)

As for defamation, if they truly believe that you made mistakes or errors (and unless we're talking mathematical errors there is generally some wiggle room on what is the "right" answer) that's not defamatory. Discuss it with an attorney by all means, but honestly? It's a long shot.

 

[quincy]

... As for defamation, if they truly believe that you made mistakes or errors (and unless we're talking mathematical errors there is generally some wiggle room on what is the "right" answer) that's not defamatory. Discuss it with an attorney by all means, but honestly? It's a long shot.

I agree with what cbg said but I think what is quoted above might need a little clarification.

"Truly believing" something about a person does not make it less defamatory if what is believed about the person is false.*

To determine if a rather vague "mistakes and errors" comment is defamatory, a lot will depend on the context and the implications.


*for defamation, there are more factors besides falsity to consider but falsity is a necessary element

 

[The Occultist]

"Truly believing" something about a person does not make it less defamatory if what is believed about the person is false.*

For some reason, I always thought that, for it to be defamatory, the statement must be "knowingly false". Am I mistaken in this?

 

[quincy]

For some reason, I always thought that, for it to be defamatory, the statement must be "knowingly false". Am I mistaken in this?

A statement does not have to be knowingly false to be defamatory.

However, in order for a public figure or public official plaintiff to support a claim of defamation, the public figure/public official plaintiff must show that the defamatory statement was published by the defendant with actual malice. To publish a statement with actual malice would be to publish with knowledge of the statement's falsity or with a reckless disregard for the truth or falsity of the statement.

Actual malice is one of the more difficult elements of defamation to prove, as it goes to the intent of the publisher.

Private figure plaintiffs are held to a lesser standard of fault in a defamation suit - negligence (published without the due care that would be used by an average person of reasonable sensibilities). At least, this is true in most states. New York is one exception.