Not sure where to post and if I can do anything about this.

[Andrasin]

My daughter (15) was helping out at a fund raiser at the church running the cotton candy booth. When one of the adult volunteers asked her if he could add sugar to the machine.
She said yes. As he filled the machine, he spilled it on her arm. He then grabbed her arm and liked it off and then walked away. She was horrified by this.
When she was picked up she told the story to my wife.

My wife went back to the church and found no one to talk to about this.
So she emailed the Youth Director to find out who it was and get help in dealing with this. She also called the police and my daughter gave a statement to them. The youth director called her on Monday and told her he had talked to the guy who did it and wanted all parties to talk about it and that he did not want this to get out. My wife told the youth director that we had called the police and that she did not know what was going to happen.

On the next Saturday the 19th the police called and said that the youth director had told him that he did NOT know who the guy was. After that conversation with my wife the police went back to the youth director on Sunday and he then did tell the truth only after being threaded with an obstruction of justice charge. The police then went to the guy who licked my daughters arm and got a confested from him. On Sunday my wife called the church and talked to Pastor also told her that they did not want this to get out.
And it seems to be getting worse every day as the youth director is now tying to get the police in trouble. And saying my wife told him that she wanted to let it go. She did not say that.

I cannot express to you the FULL emotions that myself and family feel about what is going on with how the church has handled this. Regardless of the incident, how the church has reacted is simply horrifying and inexcusable! Regretfully my family has moved to another church in an attempted to regain the “trust” of the church and to start the healing.

I would further note that we are trying to bring up our children with the best values that we can give them and we have always felt that the church would be a HUGE part of that as we entrusted and believed it would be. We have taught our children that when someone is abused in any way, that they could count on the support of the community to stand by “them” and not protect the integrity of the offender be it the Church or the State.

This has been devastating to my family.

[enjay]

I'm not sure what you want the church to do for you. Someone licked your daughter's arm and you reported it to the police. The church wasn't thrilled and have let you know that. You've cut your losses and moved on.

I hope you all seek counseling and will begin to realize that a church is comprised of human beings with human failings. You can accept that or not.

[Antigone*of*Greece]

Originally Posted by Andrasin

My daughter (15) was helping out at a fund raiser at the church running the cotton candy booth. When one of the adult volunteers asked her if he could add sugar to the machine.
She said yes. As he filled the machine, he spilled it on her arm. He then grabbed her arm and liked it off and then walked away. She was horrified by this.
When she was picked up she told the story to my wife.

My wife went back to the church and found no one to talk to about this.
So she emailed the Youth Director to find out who it was and get help in dealing with this. She also called the police and my daughter gave a statement to them. The youth director called her on Monday and told her he had talked to the guy who did it and wanted all parties to talk about it and that he did not want this to get out. My wife told the youth director that we had called the police and that she did not know what was going to happen.

On the next Saturday the 19th the police called and said that the youth director had told him that he did NOT know who the guy was. After that conversation with my wife the police went back to the youth director on Sunday and he then did tell the truth only after being threaded with an obstruction of justice charge. The police then went to the guy who licked my daughters arm and got a confested from him. On Sunday my wife called the church and talked to Pastor also told her that they did not want this to get out.
And it seems to be getting worse every day as the youth director is now tying to get the police in trouble. And saying my wife told him that she wanted to let it go. She did not say that.

I cannot express to you the FULL emotions that myself and family feel about what is going on with how the church has handled this. Regardless of the incident, how the church has reacted is simply horrifying and inexcusable! Regretfully my family has moved to another church in an attempted to regain the “trust” of the church and to start the healing.

I would further note that we are trying to bring up our children with the best values that we can give them and we have always felt that the church would be a HUGE part of that as we entrusted and believed it would be. We have taught our children that when someone is abused in any way, that they could count on the support of the community to stand by “them” and not protect the integrity of the offender be it the Church or the State.

This has been devastating to my family.

I'm not sure that this rises to the level of completel devastation. If it does for you and your family then counselling is a good thing.

I am not saying that what this guy did was right, but it certainly isn't so morally reprehensible and unforgiveable that a simple "I'm sorry I acted improperly" can't be enough.

[Andrasin]

Originally Posted by enjay

I hope you all seek counseling and will begin to realize that a church is comprised of human beings with human failings. You can accept that or not.

And who will pay for that?

So it’s not a problem for the youth director and the church to want to cover up the crime and lied to the police to protect an adult instead of standing up for my daughter?

[enjay]

You should pay for the counseling, of course, because you are the one having the major problem with perspective. Your daughter was not raped, fondled, or even kissed. Some fool licked sugar off of her arm in public then immediately walked away from her.

Your wife called the police before she was able to talk to anyone at the church. Had she not done that, the church may have reacted differently. She should have given them something that resembles a chance to handle the situation. Why would they bother to work with you if you didn't bother to work with them.

[IsabellaSoriano]

look, maybe this is my perspective considering i have a daughter....and keep in mind, i do take these overextremely, so i think a few seniors might actually shoot me for this.....

these days, children are being taught, that any unwanted touching is abuse. it's molestation. talk to an adult immediately. so what this man did, WAS inappropriate. and quite disgusting if you ask me. as a mother, i don't know where that filthy mouth has been.

the police is the first place i would have gone. and have left it there.

however, keep in mind, nothing may be done. not everything is justly handled.

you did the right thing in removing your family from that church. look to your insurance to cover the therapist. regardless of who pays for it, take her. this is not something to muddle over about costs.

and be grateful, there are bigger problems for the police to contend with. personally, to be on their priority list, is not where i'd want to be.

[quincy]

Andrasin, I am not sure why you have posted this in the defamation part of the forum - I am hoping it is not because you have said or implied anything about the adult volunteer to others that cannot be verified as true.

Stating facts - that an adult licked your daughter's arm - is fine, if that is what happened. To avoid defaming the adult volunteer, however, you must let others draw their own conclusions from that fact. Stating or implying that what was done was molestation, abuse, or had sexual overtones may be defamatory. Calling the adult volunteer an "offender" on its own can have a defamatory connotation.

The arm-licking could have been just an incredible act of stupidity on the part of the adult, one which was immediately regretted.

I DO agree that it was inappropriate conduct on the adult's part and I think your daughter did exactly the right thing by reporting the adult's conduct to you. I also think you did exactly the right thing by contacting the church after the incident to talk about what happened. I think you may have erred, however, by not giving the church an opportunity to respond. If this was just an act of stupidity by the adult and nothing more, the matter may have been satisfactorially resolved by and through the church.

Your contact with the police has changed the dynamics considerably, and the report to the police has opened the church up to an investigation, which could include having the adult in question investigated as a child predator. This can have serious repercussions for everyone involved.

I advise that you do not say anything about the volunteer, or the church, that cannot be proved true - stick only to the facts and nothing more - and wait for the police to investigate.

Good luck.

[Andrasin]

Originally Posted by enjay

You should pay for the counseling, of course, because you are the one having the major problem with perspective. Your daughter was not raped, fondled, or even kissed. Some fool licked sugar off of her arm in public then immediately walked away from her.

Your wife called the police before she was able to talk to anyone at the church. Had she not done that, the church may have reacted differently. She should have given them something that resembles a chance to handle the situation. Why would they bother to work with you if you didn't bother to work with them.

Just for the record the "licker" is being charged with a crime...
And you are saying it’s OK to lie to the police? Well it's NOT! That is a CRIME also!
And you say it is OK for a CHURCH youth director who is right now at an overnight with young kids, to lie? would you let your kids go?
And not to mention, if it is a SMALL issue in the eyes of the church and you, why did they lie? We have gone by the book on this.
And if you knew anything about predatory behavior and GROMING children, you would know why this whole thing is just weird. There was NO reason for the church to lie. WHY DID THEY LIE?

[Andrasin]

Originally Posted by quincy

Andrasin, I am not sure why you have posted this in the defamation part of the forum - I am hoping it is not because you have said or implied anything about the adult volunteer to others that cannot be verified as true.

Stating facts - that an adult licked your daughter's arm - is fine, if that is what happened. To avoid defaming the adult volunteer, however, you must let others draw their own conclusions from that fact. Stating or implying that what was done was molestation, abuse, or had sexual overtones may be defamatory. Calling the adult volunteer an "offender" on its own can have a defamatory connotation.

The arm-licking could have been just an incredible act of stupidity on the part of the adult, one which was immediately regretted.

I DO agree that it was inappropriate conduct on the adult's part and I think your daughter did exactly the right thing by reporting the adult's conduct to you. I also think you did exactly the right thing by contacting the church after the incident to talk about what happened. I think you may have erred, however, by not giving the church an opportunity to respond. If this was just an act of stupidity by the adult and nothing more, the matter may have been satisfactorially resolved by and through the church.

Your contact with the police has changed the dynamics considerably, and the report to the police has opened the church up to an investigation, which could include having the adult in question investigated as a child predator. This can have serious repercussions for everyone involved.

I advise that you do not say anything about the volunteer, or the church, that cannot be proved true - stick only to the facts and nothing more - and wait for the police to investigate.

Good luck.

1. The guy admitted doing it (on tape to police) and he is being charged with a crime.
2. I never used his name.
3. The word offender has many definitions. One being: “Cause somebody anger, resentment or hurt.” And that is true in my view.
4. My main point is that the CHURCH tried to cover it up by lying to the police. (Also a crime)
In this act betrayed my daughter and her family that put their FATH and TRUST in them.
It makes NO sense to cover this up. And we don’t get that? WHY? And NOW my town of 3000 people is going to know. And I really don’t think that the Church is going to look to good. Nor is the guy who did it.
I know what’s right and wrong. And something is wrong here.
And the pastor at my wife’s lifelong church agrees with this. He said more but I can’t say what that is.

I would have liked some real legal advice but I guess I’m in the wrong place.

But Thank you for all the input folks.

[quincy]

The police have ALREADY conducted and completed their investigation and have charged this adult volunteer with a crime? What crime exactly did they charge him with? He may have admitted licking sugar off your daughter's arm, but what CRIME did he admit to and what is he charged with?

I would definitely watch what you say about the church and the youth director and anyone else involved in this arm-licking incident. You must be VERY careful with your words and your accusations. Again, "predatory behavior" is defamatory, as is "offender," without proof that what you are saying is true. Offender has several definitions, but it is the meaning that is UNDERSTOOD that is considered. With your accusations, offender implies something far different than "cause somebody anger, resentment or hurt."

You do not need to use a person's name if everyone can identify the person about whom you are speaking. To say "youth director" of such and such a church will identify this person to everyone in your community, for instance. Names are not needed for a defamation action to be filed against you and to be successful.

If you are speaking to others in your community the way you are speaking here on this forum, you may be sued for defamation.

The legal advice I have for you is to hire an attorney - because I believe you are going to need one.

[Andrasin]

Originally Posted by IsabellaSoriano

look, maybe this is my perspective considering i have a daughter....and keep in mind, i do take these overextremely, so i think a few seniors might actually shoot me for this.....

these days, children are being taught, that any unwanted touching is abuse. it's molestation. talk to an adult immediately. so what this man did, WAS inappropriate. and quite disgusting if you ask me. as a mother, i don't know where that filthy mouth has been.

the police is the first place i would have gone. and have left it there.

however, keep in mind, nothing may be done. not everything is justly handled.

you did the right thing in removing your family from that church. look to your insurance to cover the therapist. regardless of who pays for it, take her. this is not something to muddle over about costs.

and be grateful, there are bigger problems for the police to contend with. personally, to be on their priority list, is not where i'd want to be.

Thank you and I must admit my first thought was “wood or aluminum bat”!
I agree that we need to heal. And the healing should have started with everyone telling the truth. And that was what we thought was going to happen. But it didn’t… just a lie that upset us more!
My son looked up to the youth director and spent may days and hours helping him at the church. How do you tell your kid to trust someone who tried to cover up a crime to his sister and lied to the police? And yes it was a small crime. Then why did the church lie?

take care.

[Andrasin]

Originally Posted by quincy

The police have ALREADY conducted and completed their investigation and have charged this adult volunteer with a crime? What crime exactly did they charge him with? He may have admitted licking sugar off your daughter's arm, but what CRIME did he admit to and what is he charged with?

I would definitely watch what you say about the church and the youth director and anyone else involved in this arm-licking incident. You must be VERY careful with your words and your accusations. Again, "predatory behavior" is defamatory, as is "offender," without proof that what you are saying is true. Offender has several definitions, but it is the meaning that is UNDERSTOOD that is considered. With your accusations, offender implies something far different than "cause somebody anger, resentment or hurt."

You do not need to use a person's name if everyone can identify the person about whom you are speaking. To say "youth director" of such and such a church will identify this person to everyone in your community, for instance. Names are not needed for a defamation action to be filed against you and to be successful.

If you are speaking to others in your community the way you are speaking here on this forum, you may be sued for defamation.

The legal advice I have for you is to hire an attorney - because I believe you are going to need one.

I have covered my butt and have proof of everything I have said here.
And like I said… you don’t know any specifics. And we only have to tell the right one person and we know who that is. Then it’s on them. My kids are not saying anything to their friend YET.
It’s all covered and in play… I’m p.o.ed. and I’m all in.

[quincy]

Your posts have me worried that you are not being nearly careful enough with your accusations. I think you are coming dangerously close to destroying reputations over an arm-licking incident that has you upset.

For instance, you have been talking more about the youth director here than the adult who licked your daughter's arm. You are questionning his ability to watch children because he lied. It sounds like a vendetta against the youth director and a vendetta against the church.

And you never said exactly what crime the police have charged the adult volunteer with.

At any rate, my advice still stands. Consult with an attorney in your area, because I honestly believe that YOU are very close to committing a crime - one that will have a far wider reach than any sugar incident ever could.

[Zigner]

The question has been ignored: What crime has this person been charged with?

Kind of gross? - sure.

A crime? - I'm not so sure.

[Zigner]

One other thing: US LAW ONLY! What is the name of your state?

(or did I just miss it?)