Workplace Defamation

[s_arena024]

California

I have a employee of mine that is constantly giving me issues in the workplace.
Two weeks ago this employee texted me ( I'm a manager of my store ) in this text she stated 'another employee will be taking my shift' I informed her that texting me telling me this is not proper procedure. She replied with I have a family emergency. I told the employee that the following day the she was scheduled she was suppose to be validating her training for another employee and she never replied. I assumed regardless of our conversation that she would be having it covered. The following day she shows up to her shift with an aggressive attitude towards me so I sent her home because clearly what ever was going on in her personal life was influencing how she was acting at work. She was clearly upset by this. I texted her later that evening trying to reach out and show my concern by asking her if I could get her shifts covered for the rest of the week. She called me insensitive and I apologized to her and that was that still no resolution. As the days progressed throughout the week nothing was resolved she got further shifts covered and refused to speak to me. Mind you I am not the GM of my store and she has done nothing about this situation. Yesterday she is scheduled to work on my shift and she comes in with a terrible attitude towards me again, so I try to talk to her so we can move past this situation and she tells me that she does not feel comfortable speaking to me alone. I inform her that her attitude does not create a healthy work environment and she makes me feel uncomfortable when she is present. Which is why I was attempting to hash things out and be done with it. So again I end up having to send her home. Later that day (yesterday) a crew member informs me that she is texting another employee talking trash along the lines of she was going to do all she could so that I loose my job. I contact my GM who is less then helpful telling me that I need to try to talk things out with her and resolve the problem. I feel as though my GM is facilitating this behavior and suspect she supports this crew member and not myself. I fear that my job is on the line and this is clearly an issue that is out of my control. Any insight would be very much appreciated. Do you see this being a legitimate case or what are my rights in this? This situation is causing my mental anguish at my work place, for essentially doing my job. I basically just want to know what my legal rights are in this situation.. Thanks

 

[Proserpina]

California

I have a employee of mine that is constantly giving me issues in the workplace.
Two weeks ago this employee texted me ( I'm a manager of my store ) in this text she stated 'another employee will be taking my shift' I informed her that texting me telling me this is not proper procedure. She replied with I have a family emergency. I told the employee that the following day the she was scheduled she was suppose to be validating her training for another employee and she never replied. I assumed regardless of our conversation that she would be having it covered. The following day she shows up to her shift with an aggressive attitude towards me so I sent her home because clearly what ever was going on in her personal life was influencing how she was acting at work. She was clearly upset by this. I texted her later that evening trying to reach out and show my concern by asking her if I could get her shifts covered for the rest of the week. She called me insensitive and I apologized to her and that was that still no resolution. As the days progressed throughout the week nothing was resolved she got further shifts covered and refused to speak to me. Mind you I am not the GM of my store and she has done nothing about this situation. Yesterday she is scheduled to work on my shift and she comes in with a terrible attitude towards me again, so I try to talk to her so we can move past this situation and she tells me that she does not feel comfortable speaking to me alone. I inform her that her attitude does not create a healthy work environment and she makes me feel uncomfortable when she is present. Which is why I was attempting to hash things out and be done with it. So again I end up having to send her home. Later that day (yesterday) a crew member informs me that she is texting another employee talking trash along the lines of she was going to do all she could so that I loose my job. I contact my GM who is less then helpful telling me that I need to try to talk things out with her and resolve the problem. I feel as though my GM is facilitating this behavior and suspect she supports this crew member and not myself. I fear that my job is on the line and this is clearly an issue that is out of my control. Any insight would be very much appreciated. Do you see this being a legitimate case or what are my rights in this? This situation is causing my mental anguish at my work place, for essentially doing my job. I basically just want to know what my legal rights are in this situation.. Thanks

Nothing you have said here would support a defamation case (I see no defamation at all, actually). Your rights will be to file for unemployment if you're fired.

 

[quincy]

California

I have a employee of mine that is constantly giving me issues in the workplace.
Two weeks ago this employee texted me ( I'm a manager of my store ) in this text she stated 'another employee will be taking my shift' I informed her that texting me telling me this is not proper procedure. She replied with I have a family emergency. I told the employee that the following day the she was scheduled she was suppose to be validating her training for another employee and she never replied. I assumed regardless of our conversation that she would be having it covered. The following day she shows up to her shift with an aggressive attitude towards me so I sent her home because clearly what ever was going on in her personal life was influencing how she was acting at work. She was clearly upset by this. I texted her later that evening trying to reach out and show my concern by asking her if I could get her shifts covered for the rest of the week. She called me insensitive and I apologized to her and that was that still no resolution. As the days progressed throughout the week nothing was resolved she got further shifts covered and refused to speak to me. Mind you I am not the GM of my store and she has done nothing about this situation. Yesterday she is scheduled to work on my shift and she comes in with a terrible attitude towards me again, so I try to talk to her so we can move past this situation and she tells me that she does not feel comfortable speaking to me alone. I inform her that her attitude does not create a healthy work environment and she makes me feel uncomfortable when she is present. Which is why I was attempting to hash things out and be done with it. So again I end up having to send her home. Later that day (yesterday) a crew member informs me that she is texting another employee talking trash along the lines of she was going to do all she could so that I loose my job. I contact my GM who is less then helpful telling me that I need to try to talk things out with her and resolve the problem. I feel as though my GM is facilitating this behavior and suspect she supports this crew member and not myself. I fear that my job is on the line and this is clearly an issue that is out of my control. Any insight would be very much appreciated. Do you see this being a legitimate case or what are my rights in this? This situation is causing my mental anguish at my work place, for essentially doing my job. I basically just want to know what my legal rights are in this situation.. Thanks

I see nothing that makes me think you have a defamation claim to pursue. I think you might have better placed your questions in the Employment section of the forum.

That said, you say you have been told by the GM to handle on your own any dispute you have with the employee. I suggest you handle on your own any dispute you have with the employee.

I am not seeing any legal rights being violated or any "case."



(Proserpina was faster than I - I agree with and, in fact, echo, what she says)

 

[s_arena024]

Nothing you have said here would support a defamation case (I see no defamation at all, actually). Your rights will be to file for unemployment if you're fired.

Okay thanks... But she is literally ruining my reputation at work.( May not have much knowledge in legal issues , hence why I am here... but I pretty sure it at least falls in the realm of defamation) Bad mouthing me to all employees and the GM is essentially backing her up. You truly think that if I get fired for this I have no case..

 

[quincy]

Okay thanks... But she is literally ruining my reputation at work.( May not have much knowledge in legal issues , hence why I am here... but I pretty sure it at least falls in the realm of defamation) Bad mouthing me to all employees and the GM is essentially backing her up. You truly think that if I get fired for this I have no case..

How is the employee "bad mouthing" you to others? What exactly is being said that has injured your reputation?

Here are the elements of defamation in California, as spelled out in jury instructions:

https://www.justia.com/trials-litigation/docs/caci/1700/

 

[s_arena024]

How is the employee "bad mouthing" you to others? What exactly is being said that has injured your reputation?

I just wanted to know what I am able to do in this situation. It is not right. I did not post this here to be bashed for something that is already causing me enough trouble. I just wanted advice from people more knowledgeable than myself. You've done nothing but make me feel ****tier about this situation thanks for nothing. Sorry for posting it under the wrong description.

 

[Proserpina]

Okay thanks... But she is literally ruining my reputation at work.( May not have much knowledge in legal issues , hence why I am here... but I pretty sure it at least falls in the realm of defamation) Bad mouthing me to all employees and the GM is essentially backing her up. You truly think that if I get fired for this I have no case..

Honestly? Yes, I truly think (for now at least) that you have no case.

The unfortunate truth is this:

The employee could be a close friend of the GM and could share stories about you at dinner tonight. The GM can then decide on Monday morning that s/he just thinks your time is up, and fire you. For no reason at all. For any reason at all (including you going to work wearing black pants because s/he doesn't like black pants) as long as it's not a protected class.

You would have to show not only that your reputation has been injured but (generally ... ) that you've also acquired damages, and these have occurred solely due to what Joe Employee has been saying.

That is, realistically, an enormous mountain to climb. And even worse, that's the easy part. The hard part is litigating the matter to begin with. Defamation cases are not for the faint of heart or thin of wallet. You're thinking several years, and tens of thousands of dollars just to get it within the judge's long-distance viewing. Then, one of two things will happen judicially speaking.

1. You win, and obtain a money judgment against the other guy who will never pay it, everything goes back to how it was only worse because while you've been in litigation every single part of your private life has been put on display to the general public.

2. You lose, and everything goes back to how it was only worse because while you've been in litigation every single part of your private life has been put on display to the general public.

My intention truly isn't to tell you that what s/he is saying is right or that they SHOULD get away with it - I'm not saying that at all. I'm just trying to paint a truthful picture of what happens in defamation cases.

I'm sorry - I pretty much ruined your Friday.

 

[Proserpina]

I just wanted to know what I am able to do in this situation. It is not right. I did not post this here to be bashed for something that is already causing me enough trouble. I just wanted advice from people more knowledgeable than myself. You've done nothing but make me feel ****tier about this situation thanks for nothing. Sorry for posting it under the wrong description.

You have exactly 3 minutes to apologize for that completely uncalled-for post before I delete the INCREDIBLY HELPFUL information I posted.

 

[s_arena024]

You have exactly 3 minutes to apologize for that completely uncalled-for post before I delete the INCREDIBLY HELPFUL information I posted.

thanks and sorry. I appreciate it.

 

[Proserpina]

thanks and sorry. I appreciate it.

It's okay, much appreciated.

I know you're not happy about it. I do know that, and so does quincy. But unfortunately, this rarely ends up being good for the plaintiff (you). Maybe just standing tall and holding your head high is the best thing you can do in this one?

 

[quincy]

I just wanted to know what I am able to do in this situation. It is not right. I did not post this here to be bashed for something that is already causing me enough trouble. I just wanted advice from people more knowledgeable than myself. You've done nothing but make me feel ****tier about this situation thanks for nothing. Sorry for posting it under the wrong description.

HOW is the employee bad mouthing you?

If you cannot provide that piece of information then I cannot tell you if you have any defamation claim worth pursuing. So far, from what you have said, you do not.

If what has been said about you is true or pure opinion, you have not been defamed and I do not see any legal action you can take against anyone. You then have the choice of doing what your GM tells you to do or risk being fired.

When you are asking for free advice, by the way, you should appreciate the fact that anyone is willing to provide it (the whole "please and thank you" stuff you learned as a child applies here).

 

[Eekamouse]

Okay thanks... But she is literally ruining my reputation at work.( May not have much knowledge in legal issues , hence why I am here... but I pretty sure it at least falls in the realm of defamation) Bad mouthing me to all employees and the GM is essentially backing her up. You truly think that if I get fired for this I have no case..

How do you know she's badmouthing you to ALL the employees and that the GM is backing her up? Just because the GM won't handle this for you doesn't mean she's on the side of this other employee. The GM wants you to deal with this yourself like a grown up and if you can't do this, you probably aren't management material anyway.

 

[commentator]

It isn't really illegal for people to say bad things about their manager in the workplace. And even if it was, and you could prove defamation, suing someone who works where you do and makes less than you do would be totally unproductive. You'd spend thousands and thousands even to get it to court, and then they don't have any money for you to collect if you won a judgment against them. You know you don't see this happening a lot. Do you think that's because nobody else has ever sat around in the workplace and talked about their boss like a dog? That is not the way people handle work conflicts.

This is a poor employee who thinks she more or less has the bluff on you. You were a tad over personal about her whole "I'm going to miss work with a sorry attitude" thing to begin with. You're not here to be her buddy, you don't get into her personal issues, or even that she's feeling stressed or seems to be upset. You really don't care if she "acts angry" and rolls her eyes and cuts a shine. If she shows up and does her job, that is what you want from her. You don't care if she likes you or if she talks mean about you or tells the other employees you walk funny and your hair looks like crap today. Big whoop. You are the manager. Your job is to get the work done. If she is doing her job, forget the personal issues. If she fails to follow the appropriate procedure to get a substitute, follow the company policy for reporting an unexcused absence. Whatever your problem is with the employee or her performance, KEEP IT PROFESSIONAL. Ignore her silly little "I don't like her, she's such a bitch" personal attacks. Do you have an HR at your corporate office or some guidelines for manager discipline of employees that you can familiarize yourself with? Be professional. Don't try to have heart to heart talks with her. If you want to talk to her in a disciplinary fashion, involve HR or your manager, or skip those talks.

If she tells some amazing tale and does succeed in getting you fired, as long as you have been doing your best on the job, and you are fired, then you'll probably qualify for unemployment. It would be legal to fire you for any reason, California being an "at will" state, but just keep doing your job to the best of your ability. Ignore as much as possible this employee's griping and childish behavior, be the professional in this situation, and it very likely will not happen.

 

[quincy]

I think both you, commentator, and Eekamouse, have probably pinpointed the major issue.

Employees often complain or gripe about their managers or about management in general. Rarely will these complaints and gripes be ones of interest to upper management. Rarely will these complaints and gripes rise to the level of defamation.

Managers are expected to take care of the petty disputes that arise in any workplace. That is why they are in the position they are in. If they are unable to handle the employees under their charge, they are probably not cut out to be managers.

If s_arena024 wants to post back with exactly what was said that s/he believes is defamatory, though, and why it was said, that could perhaps help rule out thoughts of a defamation claim.

 

[Shadowbunny]

Okay thanks... But she is literally ruining my reputation at work.( May not have much knowledge in legal issues , hence why I am here... but I pretty sure it at least falls in the realm of defamation) Bad mouthing me to all employees and the GM is essentially backing her up. You truly think that if I get fired for this I have no case..

If a disgruntled employee can ruin your reputation with a bit of trash talk, then your reputation wasn't that good to begin with.

If you're a solid manager with a reputation for doing your job well, some foot-stomping by an employee isn't going to "ruin" anything. Take the solid advice given to you by the HR professionals in this forum and use this as a learning experience. Because as long as you're in management, you'll have snotty employees talking trash. It goes with the territory.