Life Insurance Disbursement

[BelizeBreeze]

I checked the database records online and probate has not been filed as of yet.

O.k. fine.

I spoke with someone in probabt court and she said for an executor to be appointed all heirs had to agree, including his widow.

And that is a crock of crap. Go to the probate court, ask to speak with this 'person' and ask her face to face where she attended law school and that you would like to see her license to practice law.

Then tell her you need the paperwork to file probate.

This probably won't happen though...Do you suggest going the private investigator route to possibly save money in case there isn't any estate assets to possibly divide through probate proceedings?
Thanks

no, I suggest you file probate and ask the court to appoint you as exectutor. If the family does not agree then they can file objections and a hearing will be held.

 

[threescompany]

I have since spoke with 2 seperate attorneys.

Attorney 1: "You definately have a case even though there aren't any real estate assets to go after. Your father violated the contract "divorce decree" by not keeping the insurance policies up to date."
Attorney 2: "If there aren't any REAL assets available, then it might not be worth it to take it court."

Current Status: The surviving spouse has been 100% compensated since my father's death, his 5 children (which includes 2 minors) have received nothing and probably will not receive anything other than social security until they are 18. And to boot, my mother doesnt look to be receiving any future child support, because there are no "estate" assets because his current wife was the beneficiary on everything. At this point the ONLY option is a civil suit against his wife. Would this be worth it??, or are we just spinning our wheels? The first attorney I spoke with said that we should definately file a lawsuit and that collective and resulting trust arguments can definately be argued to leverage a favorable decision for us (the children). If you haven't done so yet, please read through this thread for more details.

His Wife's Payout:
Life insurance - 500K
Dad' s Mutual Fund - 100K
Dad's 401K Savings - 90K

Children Compensation: 0

 

[Dandy Don]

What is the value of the estate being probated in court or have you checked yet? Your attorney would need to find out the estate value before he can decide whether there is enough money in it to file a claim for your college expenses.

Your attorney needs to figure out what has actually happened with the beneficiary designation on each of the other assets (life insurance, mutual fund, and 401K savings) before you can decide whether a lawsuit is needed or not. Each asset has its own rules and regulations about who gets what and that may be different what the law states but the beneficiary designations rule--what they state is what will happen. Your attorney needs to find out if the beneficiary designations were what your father filled out at the time the asset was purchased, or whether he later changed it or whether the widow had previously gotten power of attorney and whether SHE actually submitted the beneficiary designation changes. If SHE did it that might be considered abuse of POA depending on whether this state has laws against that or not, and if that is what happened she will have to pay that money back. Normally the executor of the estate investigates all of this, but in this case it looks like the executor might not give you that information if he is sympathetic to the widow.

Each account has rules and regulations that sometimes favor the surviving spouse, but others favor the kids so you just need to look at the rules for each asset account to find out what happened and exactly who gets what.

If this attorney took over a month and a half to meet with you, then he is too busy to take your case. You need to be talking to another attorney who can help you now before it is too late. If this attorney has another lawyer in his firm that can handle this for you, use the other attorney and only go back to the first one if you need to actually sue.

If you have not done so already, you need to check at the county courthouse probate court to see if anyone has filed to become executor of this estate--there could be an updated will that you don't know about. If there is no will filed, then your attorney needs to get the original will filed so that if there is any other estate besides the life insurance/401k/mutual fund, whoever is named beneficiary in the will gets paid (are the children named as beneficiaries?).

Hope this has a good outcome for the kids--it is despicable what your father did--he could have least left one of the accounts for them!!

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

 

[threescompany]

What is the value of the estate being probated in court or have you checked yet? Your attorney would need to find out the estate value before he can decide whether there is enough money in it to file a claim for your college expenses.

Your attorney needs to figure out what has actually happened with the beneficiary designation on each of the other assets (life insurance, mutual fund, and 401K savings) before you can decide whether a lawsuit is needed or not. Each asset has its own rules and regulations about who gets what and that may be different what the law states but the beneficiary designations rule--what they state is what will happen. Your attorney needs to find out if the beneficiary designations were what your father filled out at the time the asset was purchased, or whether he later changed it or whether the widow had previously gotten power of attorney and whether SHE actually submitted the beneficiary designation changes. If SHE did it that might be considered abuse of POA depending on whether this state has laws against that or not, and if that is what happened she will have to pay that money back. Normally the executor of the estate investigates all of this, but in this case it looks like the executor might not give you that information if he is sympathetic to the widow.

Each account has rules and regulations that sometimes favor the surviving spouse, but others favor the kids so you just need to look at the rules for each asset account to find out what happened and exactly who gets what.

If this attorney took over a month and a half to meet with you, then he is too busy to take your case. You need to be talking to another attorney who can help you now before it is too late. If this attorney has another lawyer in his firm that can handle this for you, use the other attorney and only go back to the first one if you need to actually sue.

If you have not done so already, you need to check at the county courthouse probate court to see if anyone has filed to become executor of this estate--there could be an updated will that you don't know about. If there is no will filed, then your attorney needs to get the original will filed so that if there is any other estate besides the life insurance/401k/mutual fund, whoever is named beneficiary in the will gets paid (are the children named as beneficiaries?).

Hope this has a good outcome for the kids--it is despicable what your father did--he could have least left one of the accounts for them!!

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

His wife was named the beneficiary on everything. No one has filed as executor because he had no real estate assets. I am in the process of searching for assets, but all of the money came from his 401K, life insurance, and his mutual and his wife is the primary beneficiary on everything. He died without a will and very suddenly and he left his children with nothing. He was supposed to keep life insurance policies for the children and our mother, but stopped paying the premiums a year ago. He violated the divorce decree by stopping payments, so that COULD be grounds to sue. Our options now are to find some assets that we might not have known about or take it to civil court and sue. The lawyer I spoke with said it might be a lost cause.

 

[Dandy Don]

Who told you he stopped paying the premiums? That seems most unlikely as he would normally not want to lose the money he already paid.

Please at least get an attorney to contact each asset and find out for certain IF a beneficiary designation form was submitted and if it was ever changed or not and exactly who submitted it. Please do not give up so easily without finding relevant information that could help you win your case without suing!

Where did they live and you mean to tell me he didn't even own his own home?

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

 

[threescompany]

Who told you he stopped paying the premiums? That seems most unlikely as he would normally not want to lose the money he already paid.

Please at least get an attorney to contact each asset and find out for certain IF a beneficiary designation form was submitted and if it was ever changed or not and exactly who submitted it. Please do not give up so easily without finding relevant information that could help you win your case without suing!

Where did they live and you mean to tell me he didn't even own his own home?

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

His wife indicated that he stopped paying the premiums to free up money for other responsibilities. My mother called to check on the poilcies and that was true, he stopped paying them about a year before he died. According to Florida law we cant go after his house because it was in both of their names so his wife keeps it. She was certainly the beneficiary of his "employer provided" life insurance, 401K, and pension AND she was the beneficiary for his independent mutual fund account. Hiring an attorney might be a waste of money...we have talked to an estate attorney and he said that it would probably be a civil case and not much guarantee for any compensation. I plan on paying an online service to search for other assets, because at this point we don't have many other options AND there "could" be some assets out there that we do not know about. In regards to the beneficiary information: She was the primary beneficiary of the mutual fund account, I contact HR at his employer and even IF she wasnt the primary beneficiary, there system automatically designates the surviving spouse as the primary beneficiary (even if a form isn't signed and submitted). Trust me, we aren't giving up, but we are getting low on options and I have gone down almost every avenue possible as of yet.

 

[Dandy Don]

The point is NOT to check and see if SHE was named beneficiary--the point is to find out from each asset holder if your father designated her as beneficiary when the asset was first acquired or whether, illegally, the widow had submitted a beneficiary designation change form to change previous beneficiaries to HER name with the power of attorney. Have you checked on this with EVERY company that is holding an asset? The online asset searches are a waste of money because they can't give the precise exact service that a private investigator can.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

 

[threescompany]

The point is NOT to check and see if SHE was named beneficiary--the point is to find out from each asset holder if your father designated her as beneficiary when the asset was first acquired or whether, illegally, the widow had submitted a beneficiary designation change form to change previous beneficiaries to HER name with the power of attorney. Have you checked on this with EVERY company that is holding an asset? The online asset searches are a waste of money because they can't give the precise exact service that a private investigator can.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

I understand what you are saying, but it terms of real "assets" we are unaware of any as of yet (i.e. real estate, bank accounts). His wife was the primary beneficiary on his life insurance policy, 401k, and mutual fund. A designation form isnt always needed, because in this case, the surviving spouse is the "default" primary beneficiary either way. I have checked with every company regarding the mutual fund, 401k, and life insurance. Our only hope now is to locate some assets that we can go after. IF we were to open an estate now, there is nothing to pursue, everything my stepmom has received or has is protected from creditors. A civil case "could" be an option, but its is such a coin flip regarding whether it could be successful or not.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

how, EXACTLY, are the names listed on the deed?

 

[threescompany]

how, EXACTLY, are the names listed on the deed?

Their home was purchased and the deed is in both names. His mutual fund was in either joint or names her a primary beneficiary. His employee life insurance listed her as the primary beneficiary and/or defaulted her as the primary beneficiary. His 401K and pension listed her as the primary beneficiary and/or defaulted her as the primary beneficiary

 

[threescompany]

how, EXACTLY, are the names listed on the deed?

Why does this matter?