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Advice about irrational/incompetent yet functional mother?

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evanesce

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

I am writing to seek some help in deciding what, if anything, I can do to help my mother. She is 60 and at a glance seems to be a wonderfully normal human being. Scratch beneath the surface however and you find a wealth of irrationality. The situation is complex, and so I’ll do my best to explain it in a way that makes sense and as briefly as possible (brief is not my strong suit :p).

The first thing you might notice that would key you in to what I am talking about is the clutter that exists in our house. My mother has a very hard time disposing of anything. She saves second hand clothes, plastic containers, cancelled checks, furniture, you name it. She does not have a hard time giving it away if she thinks it will be put to good use, but there are not many people who want what she saves, and so she has a hard time even giving much of anything away. It has become a running joke in our family (sadly) that you take anything she offers, since that’s the only way it will get out of our house.

A second trait that is easily observable is her obsession with illness, death and medication. She is convinced she has very bad asthma, and I have little doubt she does have it, but the way she handles it is irrational. She sees, on average, five doctors a week, who each prescribe her a few different medications. She’s on several inhalers, uses a nebulizer at night, sleeps with a sleep apnea machine on, takes steroids, high blood pressure medication, acid reflux medication, medication for depression, and self-medicates with herbal remedies she hears about on TV as well. While I believe she may need some of these medications, the exuberance with which she runs to the doctor with a new diagnosis of herself on a regular basis is disturbing.

Another trait that is less obvious is her obsession with clipping and using coupons. She clips every coupon she can find and appears unable to resist using them. She thousands a year on dry cleaning, since she gets 20% off every time, and much of the house is littered with cans, jars, and boxes of non-perishables that she buys simply because she can get a half dollar off of it. She scans circulars for deals, and when something is on sale and she has a coupon she runs to buy it. Her and my father live alone, and I would estimate she spends a few hundred dollars a week on groceries.

She also has a level of irrational judgment when it comes to her home. In the last few months, she replaced the floors (they creaked), the attic AC unit (apparently she’s allergic to ozone now and had to have it changed) the furnace in the basement (it was leaking incredible amounts of carbon monoxide –yet the detectors were silent). She also hires cleaning people to help her change drapes, organize her clothes and do random things around the house. The worst of it was when she hired a handyman a few years ago to do odd jobs. He began by telling her small jobs needed to be done like tarring the driveways, and painting the house’s foundation and chimney. He then moved onto bigger jobs, like cleaning the crawlspace out in the basement, and culminated in telling her all the pipes needed to be replaced. He insisted he needed the money immediately. She called me panicking because the ATM would only let her withdraw $300 and he said he needed more. She got him another $2K the next day, and, needless to say perhaps, had to take him to court when he took off and is still paying her back $100 a month today.

Finally, she was a teacher for over 30 years at the same school. Last year the school threatened to take legal action if she did not retire, due to her irrationality compromising her ability to do her job. Thankfully the union was able to convince her to leave her job and take her pension before the case made it to court. While she enjoys retirement, I’m afraid it is affording her the time and energy to increase her commitment to her other irrational habits and spend money that she’s quickly running out of.

These examples barely scratch the surface of the irrationality I face whenever I see her and my that father faces everyday. There are smaller, less noticeable patterns in her everyday habits. We are practically desperate. I fear for her, not knowing what the medication she takes combined with the stress she creates for herself will do to her. She’s slowly estranging herself from the rest of the family with her ways. My father and I are the only ones who know the extent of her problems and stick with her since we know she doesn’t really understand what she does.

So I’m writing to ask, what can I do? Legally? Morally? She loves and listens to me, but I’m afraid she only hears what she wants, and much of my advice is twisted until it supports her irrational judgments.

Thanks so much for reading my lengthy post! I hope someone out there can offer me some help or advice.
 


rowz

Member
WoWser!!

Good for you for taking the initiative. What does your Dad have to say about all this?

How does Mom feel about donating things to a charity-based thrift store? Properly approached she might want to help the cause that they represent and "give them some stuff".

On the main issues it sure sounds like she needs the assistance of a mental health professional. Her current physicians may not be too willing to converse with you about her care as she is not all that old & does have a husband.

Perhaps a priest/paster/rabbit or the like could provide some help?

Good luck
 

evanesce

Junior Member
My father is just at his wits end. He basically tries to live his own life and ignore her for the most part, but when she spends so much money on things that don't need to be fixed he has to step in. She complains that he's angry, bitter and nasty. That he won't help with bills and that he's controlling. He does have his issues and a bit of a temper, but nothing uncontrollable and I know why he doesn't help with bills that stem from irrational decisions. He's tried to help, he's tried a bit of tough love, but nothing seems to get through to her.

I guess I forgot to say in my lengthy post that she's been seeing the same psychologist for about 30 years. He's the one who recommended the anti-depression medication and had her go see another doctor. I've attempted to contact him a few times, not seeking any information about her since I know that he can't tell me, but just to tell him my side of the story since he only gets to hear her side. I've even offered to pay whatever he wants for his time. He has never returned my calls.

My mother is in close contact with her church, the church I grew up in. She is a deacon and attends Bible study a few times a month. She appears to be slightly nervous and off in person, but you would never know the details unless you really looked...

I've asked her to donate stuff, but she's quite selective, really tailors what she gives to the people/person of which she's thinking. Donating things en masse would disturb her. She is often reduced to tears when things get throw out or given away without "real" purpose. She's also smart enough to remember most of what she has and checks to see what's been thrown away.

Thanks for the luck, we need all we can get :)
 
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Isis1

Senior Member
My father is just at his wits end. He basically tries to live his own life and ignore her for the most part, but when she spends so much money on things that don't need to be fixed he has to step in. She complains that he's angry, bitter and nasty. That he won't help with bills and that he's controlling. He does have his issues and a bit of a temper, but nothing uncontrollable and I know why he doesn't help with bills that stem from irrational decisions. He's tried to help, he's tried a bit of tough love, but nothing seems to get through to her.

I guess I forgot to say in my lengthy post that she's been seeing the same psychologist for about 30 years. He's the one who recommended the anti-depression medication and had her go see another doctor. I've attempted to contact him a few times, not seeking any information about her since I know that he can't tell me, but just to tell him my side of the story since he only gets to hear her side. I've even offered to pay whatever he wants for his time. He has never returned my calls.

My mother is in close contact with her church, the church I grew up in. She is a deacon and attends Bible study a few times a month. She appears to be slightly nervous and off in person, but you would never know the details unless you really looked...

I've asked her to donate stuff, but she's quite selective, really tailors what she gives to the people/person of which she's thinking. Donating things en masse would disturb her. She is often reduced to tears when things get throw out or given away without "real" purpose. She's also smart enough to remember most of what she has and checks to see what's been thrown away.

Thanks for the luck, we need all we can get :)
has DAD spoken to her doctor?
 

evanesce

Junior Member
Nope I don't believe he has and while I think he would be willing to try, I know he thinks the guy is a fake and does nothing (which I'm starting to believe as well) and is quite quick to anger. He's also so close to the situation he has a hard time thinking about it rationally and from a distance, so I think he probably wouldn't be the best person to do so.
 

Isis1

Senior Member
Nope I don't believe he has and while I think he would be willing to try, I know he thinks the guy is a fake and does nothing (which I'm starting to believe as well) and is quite quick to anger. He's also so close to the situation he has a hard time thinking about it rationally and from a distance, so I think he probably wouldn't be the best person to do so.
he may be the only person legally able to do anything. i can understand why the doctor felt it was unethical to speak to you about anything. even if it only meant to let you talk while he listened.
 

evanesce

Junior Member
Thanks for the advice, that's kind of what I'm looking for. If my father is the only one legally able to do anything, what exactly can he do? I've been hunting around on the internet and there seems to be the option of power of attorney, which it seems she would have to sign over willingly, or a guardianship, which, if worst came to worst, can be forced on her as long as a doctor is willing to testify that he believes she is mentally compromised and unable to make rational decisions. While it would break my heart to have to take it to that level I'm seriously worried about my mother's health, safety and well being as well as those around her. (As an aside, she's been in 3 car accidents in the last 2 years and has gotten numerous tickets - for example 65 in a 25 on one day and then she saw a cop merging on the highway the next day and got so nervous she came to a complete stop in 50+mph traffic, waved him on and got rear ended - which resulted in a second ticket). I seriously think she needs, at the least, more intense therapy than what she's getting at the moment. I think she may be able to understand and work with her relative irrationality, as I said she's very smart, but she would need a lot of help to do so and I don't think she'll simply take the advice of my father or I.

Thanks again for reading!
 

Zephyr

Senior Member
The first thing you might notice that would key you in to what I am talking about is the clutter that exists in our house. My mother has a very hard time disposing of anything. She saves second hand clothes, plastic containers, cancelled checks, furniture, you name it. She does not have a hard time giving it away if she thinks it will be put to good use, but there are not many people who want what she saves, and so she has a hard time even giving much of anything away. It has become a running joke in our family (sadly) that you take anything she offers, since that’s the only way it will get out of our house.

A second trait that is easily observable is her obsession with illness, death and medication. She is convinced she has very bad asthma, and I have little doubt she does have it, but the way she handles it is irrational. She sees, on average, five doctors a week, who each prescribe her a few different medications. She’s on several inhalers, uses a nebulizer at night, sleeps with a sleep apnea machine on, takes steroids, high blood pressure medication, acid reflux medication, medication for depression, and self-medicates with herbal remedies she hears about on TV as well. While I believe she may need some of these medications, the exuberance with which she runs to the doctor with a new diagnosis of herself on a regular basis is disturbing.

Another trait that is less obvious is her obsession with clipping and using coupons. She clips every coupon she can find and appears unable to resist using them. She thousands a year on dry cleaning, since she gets 20% off every time, and much of the house is littered with cans, jars, and boxes of non-perishables that she buys simply because she can get a half dollar off of it. She scans circulars for deals, and when something is on sale and she has a coupon she runs to buy it. Her and my father live alone, and I would estimate she spends a few hundred dollars a week on groceries.

She also has a level of irrational judgment when it comes to her home. In the last few months, she replaced the floors (they creaked), the attic AC unit (apparently she’s allergic to ozone now and had to have it changed) the furnace in the basement (it was leaking incredible amounts of carbon monoxide –yet the detectors were silent). She also hires cleaning people to help her change drapes, organize her clothes and do random things around the house. The worst of it was when she hired a handyman a few years ago to do odd jobs. He began by telling her small jobs needed to be done like tarring the driveways, and painting the house’s foundation and chimney. He then moved onto bigger jobs, like cleaning the crawlspace out in the basement, and culminated in telling her all the pipes needed to be replaced. He insisted he needed the money immediately. She called me panicking because the ATM would only let her withdraw $300 and he said he needed more. She got him another $2K the next day, and, needless to say perhaps, had to take him to court when he took off and is still paying her back $100 a month today.

holy cats!!!! are you my brother? LOL you just described my mother! Luckily though, I don't live with my mother, and I do go through a different room in her home each time I am there and get rid of all the junk....I really wish she would stop shopping a garage sales....
 

xylene

Senior Member
Your mothers behaviors are typical symptoms of OCD.

The compulsive hoarding. The irrational health decisions. Fear of germs, etc...

The best thing you / dad coulds do for a start is contact all her doctors and explain that she is seeing other doctors which may be resulting in over-medication and that you suspect she is engaging in drug seeking behavior and that she self medicates dangerously outside of her treatment.

Once the medications neg impact is alleviated, then mom must see a psychiatrist.
 

evanesce

Junior Member
Thanks, that's good advice. I think you're spot on. When I'm home next week I'll make an inventory of all her medications and Doctors phone numbers and get on top of contacting them. Her behavior really does indicate OCD and I think the medication is compounding all her problems.

I'm also planning on confronting her and trying to get her to realize she has a problem. Hopefully she'll see reason and be willing to seek the help of a psychiatrist. I guess its kind of like alcoholism, but quite different as well :(
 
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cyjeff

Senior Member
Have you thought that mom may benefit from a hobby?

Don't get me wrong... the above advice was spot on. I will tell you, from personal experience, that my mother was certainly loonlike when she retired.

She didn't have anywhere to go or anything to do and so she became obsessed with places she could use that energy.

I recommend that since your mother was an educator, have her post her services as a tutor or, even, babysitter. She would have a place to go, some money to spend, and someone else to worry over.

Helped my mom a ton.
 

Isis1

Senior Member
Have you thought that mom may benefit from a hobby?

Don't get me wrong... the above advice was spot on. I will tell you, from personal experience, that my mother was certainly loonlike when she retired.

She didn't have anywhere to go or anything to do and so she became obsessed with places she could use that energy.

I recommend that since your mother was an educator, have her post her services as a tutor or, even, babysitter. She would have a place to go, some money to spend, and someone else to worry over.

Helped my mom a ton.

i have GOT to wholeheartedly agree. OP stated this occured after mom retired. being unemployed after being employed for so many tears can drive you crazy. you pick up habits you never would have if your time is constantly scheduled. (such as coming to forums and talking too much :eek::p)
 

xylene

Senior Member
Hobbies are her problem.

At least part of it.

Mom needs medication and therapy.

Possibly even hospitalization depending on the state of the home.

This did not start after she retired. In fact, per the OP, she was forced into retirement because the 'issue' was making her life unmanageable.
 

evanesce

Junior Member
I agree, this is not an after-retirement problem. If you saw how many hobbies my mother has you would get tired instantly. She square dances, plays bridge (she's single handedly founded a bridge club and picks up all of the old ladies who want to play and has them over our cluttered house twice a week) and regularly attends bible studies, which are all relatively normal hobbies on top of her coupon clipping, constant shopping and heading to daily doctors appointments. She also is convinced my father is an alcoholic (once she accused him he stopped drinking and hasn't touched alcohol in any shape way or form in over 30 years so I beg to differ) and attends Alanon meetings a few times a week. I tried to talk her into starting an after school tutoring program but she was so stressed out over teaching when she was forced to quit she doesn't want to revisit it just yet.
 
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cyjeff

Senior Member
I wasn't trying to be flippant.

I never said that the medical issues didn't need to come first. In fact, I believe I said it was "Spot on".

I was just trying to offer any other help I could think of.
 

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