Am I entitled as the fiancee'?

[lizzyrain]

My daughter and her fiance' lived together in Kansas and were to be married in the next 6 months. A few weeks ago he was killed.

My daughter received a letter from an attorney yesterday that his mother, next of kin, hired. His mother and step-dad want to be allowed to come into my daughter's home and take his personal belongings.

He moved into my daughter's home. He moved all he possessed----furniture and clothing, into my daughter's home. Just a few weeks prior to his death, his father died. In the course of taking care of his father's funeral and in conversation, my daughter's fiance' said that if anything ever happened to him, he wanted all his belongings to remain with her. He was not close to his mom at all.

How does the mother even know what his personal belongings are/were? Yes, there are some photos and family items, etc. that my daughter plans to give his mother, but as far as material things---does she have to disrupt her home, because of a greedy mom and step-dad?? Do they need to provide a list and documentation of what they are wanting?

[JETX]

Originally Posted by lizzyrain

How does the mother even know what his personal belongings are/were?

She doesn't... so your daughter better count on the mother just claiming EVERYTHING.... and have HER receipts and proof that the items were hers. Her claim of his verbal 'inheritance' means nothing.

Yes, there are some photos and family items, etc. that my daughter plans to give his mother, but as far as material things---does she have to disrupt her home, because of a greedy mom and step-dad??

Pretty much. The problem is her boyfriend left her this way.

Do they need to provide a list and documentation of what they are wanting?

Though it would really be nice, they have no obligation to do so.

[Gracie3787]

Originally Posted by lizzyrain

My daughter and her fiance' lived together in Kansas and were to be married in the next 6 months. A few weeks ago he was killed.

My daughter received a letter from an attorney yesterday that his mother, next of kin, hired. His mother and step-dad want to be allowed to come into my daughter's home and take his personal belongings.

He moved into my daughter's home. He moved all he possessed----furniture and clothing, into my daughter's home. Just a few weeks prior to his death, his father died. In the course of taking care of his father's funeral and in conversation, my daughter's fiance' said that if anything ever happened to him, he wanted all his belongings to remain with her. He was not close to his mom at all.

How does the mother even know what his personal belongings are/were? Yes, there are some photos and family items, etc. that my daughter plans to give his mother, but as far as material things---does she have to disrupt her home, because of a greedy mom and step-dad?? Do they need to provide a list and documentation of what they are wanting?

I have been thru a similar situation myself when my fiancee was killed by a drunk driver. First, your daughter does not have any legal obligation to give the mother (or anyone else for that matter) ANYTHING until there is a court order to do so. She should not allow anyone into her home nor should she agree to anything that she's not comfortable with.

I was very fortunate that my finacee's son was to be the executor and was very nice about everything. Since I already knew what my financee had wanted each child to have, I gave each one the items. Then before the funeral I took all of his belongings that might have sentimental value, and put them in the middle of my living room. I allowed the kids to choose what they wanted from that pile. When a few of them began to go through drawers and closets asking if this item or that item had been thier Dad's, I calmly explained that if they had to ask then that item didn't have any sentimental value and no they could not have it. At first they were upset but then I asked them to leave and they calmed down. We discussed different items and then compromised.

Your daughter can try the same thing, any items that she thinks her fiancee might have wanted his family to have she should go ahead and make the offer. Since an attorney is involved she should do everything through that attorney's office though. Things like a car or anything that was LEGALLY in his name only should be turned over to the attorney and she should be sure to get a reciept for anything that she gives. My fiancee had helped my daughter buy a car as a co-signer just 3 weeks before his death. My daughter had to turn the car over to the attorney, but she made sure to get a reciept.

Also, have her check ALL her fiancee's papers to see if he had a will, even an old one. If he did it can speed things up for her. I realize that her feelings right now are they she probably wants to keep everything that was his, but if there is anything she can get into trouble for keeping she can only hurt herself by trying to keep things instead of trying to work with the family and attorney.
Please give your daughter my sympathies on her loss.
Gracie

[weenor]

Gracie- nice suggestions and practical- just wanted to reinterate that without a will she really has no right to any of his stuff.

[Gracie3787]

Originally Posted by weenor

Gracie- nice suggestions and practical- just wanted to reinterate that without a will she really has no right to any of his stuff.

That's correct, however, without a will stating specifically who does have the right- legally the mother doesn't either, no one does. At the same time, she has possesion of the property and cannot be forced to give anything up until a court orders her to.

After I had given evrything that I had to to the attorney and had voluntarily given other items to family members, my fiancee's ex called and wanted me to give her all the things her kids had given thier Dad for b-days, christmas, etc. Petty things like an electric razor, a noaa weather radio, etc. She got quite upset when I told her no. The next day I talked to the estate attorney and he told me not to worry about it, that she'd have to prove in probate court that she was entitled to anything before a Judge would order it.

So basically I was just letting OP know that unless there is a will with specifics, her daughter does not have any legal obligation- until a Judge orders otherwise. Believe me, when a spouse or fiancee dies it is pure hell and a person can easily be pressured to give up thier rights. I was lucky, my fiancee and I had talked extensively about what he wanted after his death (but he didn't do a will) and he even promised me that he'd come back to haunt me if I gave up my rights, so I was very emotionally strong, but alot of people aren't at that point.

[AHA]

Originally Posted by lizzyrain

My daughter and her fiance' lived together in Kansas and were to be married in the next 6 months. A few weeks ago he was killed.

My daughter received a letter from an attorney yesterday that his mother, next of kin, hired. His mother and step-dad want to be allowed to come into my daughter's home and take his personal belongings.

He moved into my daughter's home. He moved all he possessed----furniture and clothing, into my daughter's home. Just a few weeks prior to his death, his father died. In the course of taking care of his father's funeral and in conversation, my daughter's fiance' said that if anything ever happened to him, he wanted all his belongings to remain with her. He was not close to his mom at all.

How does the mother even know what his personal belongings are/were? Yes, there are some photos and family items, etc. that my daughter plans to give his mother, but as far as material things---does she have to disrupt her home, because of a greedy mom and step-dad?? Do they need to provide a list and documentation of what they are wanting?

"Am I entitled as the fiancee'?"

You should change the title since you are not the fiancee.

[stealth2]

Originally Posted by Gracie3787

That's correct, however, without a will stating specifically who does have the right- legally the mother doesn't either, no one does.

Actually, next of kin would have the greatest right. Which might be Mom. It is definitely not the fiancee.

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Gracie3787

That's correct, however, without a will stating specifically who does have the right- legally the mother doesn't either, no one does.

And of course, that is 110% crap.
Ever heard of intestate??

[BelizeBreeze]

Originally Posted by JETX

And of course, that is 110% crap.
Ever heard of intestate??

are you getting a headache from rolling your eyes too?

[cissycicle]

Originally Posted by BelizeBreeze

are you getting a headache from rolling your eyes too?

Hey, Belize, I haven't had a "headache" in a very long time, but I haven't been married for a very long time!

[Gracie3787]

Originally Posted by lizzyrain

My daughter and her fiance' lived together in Kansas and were to be married in the next 6 months. A few weeks ago he was killed.

My daughter received a letter from an attorney yesterday that his mother, next of kin, hired. His mother and step-dad want to be allowed to come into my daughter's home and take his personal belongings.

He moved into my daughter's home. He moved all he possessed----furniture and clothing, into my daughter's home. Just a few weeks prior to his death, his father died. In the course of taking care of his father's funeral and in conversation, my daughter's fiance' said that if anything ever happened to him, he wanted all his belongings to remain with her. He was not close to his mom at all.

How does the mother even know what his personal belongings are/were? Yes, there are some photos and family items, etc. that my daughter plans to give his mother, but as far as material things---does she have to disrupt her home, because of a greedy mom and step-dad?? Do they need to provide a list and documentation of what they are wanting?

Although the other posters are pretty knowledgeable about laws, this is a situation that I have personally experienced and I posted my advice as it was given to me by a lawyer. My situation happened in Florida and the laws may be different for Ks. So I just finished reading thru Ks. probate statutes at [url]www.kslegislature.org[/url] This is what I found:

1. Your daughter does NOT have to simply open HER HOME to anyone just because a LAWYER wants her to. There are legal procedures the mother has to take first:

Mother or some other person has to file a petition in probate court, according to the statutes the petition MUST list an inventory of the decedant's personal property along with a description and estimated value.
Which means that Mother will have to be able to specify each item and give a description, just listing something like- 1 bed, 1 sofa, 1 TV, one set of dishes, etc. isn't going to be allowed. The statutes are written with the assumption that the petitioner will have enough knowledge of the personal property that they can at least give a description. This is the same thing the attorney in Fl told me, if no one can give a description of what the sofa looks like, when it was purchased, etc. they will have a hard time convincing a probate Judge of the actual ownership. The probate court does not just automatically assume that evry single item in a home shared by the decedant and another person were the decedants property alone.

2. Even after a petition is filed, your daughter does not have to allow anyone in to HER home. She has the right to refuse admittance. If she refuses both admittance AND disclosure of what personal property was his, they will have to file with the court for a hearing for disclosure. Then, and only then will she be required to disclose the property. Of course, it will be to her advantage to go ahead and give discloure now rather than waiting for the court to order it. However, as I said, she does not have to allow anyone INTO her home without a court order. She can simply disclose what the items are and give them to the attorney.

3. I want to clarify that I'm referring only to personal property, such as clothing, furniture, dishes, liniens, etc. Other things, such as a car, real estate, bank accounts, etc. are different and should be turned over to the attorney ASAP.

The other posters have made it sound like your daughter must open her home and let them take EVERYTHING out of it, and that is simply not true. Although she doesn't have the legal right to keep everything her fiancee owned, she does have the right to keep her privacy, her own property and anything that cannot be proven to have been her fiancee's personal property.

Also, she should get a consult with an attorney ASAP for her protection.

I hope evrything gets settled for her shortly so that she can start the healing process.

[ceara19]

Originally Posted by JETX

She doesn't... so your daughter better count on the mother just claiming EVERYTHING.... and have HER receipts and proof that the items were hers. Her claim of his verbal 'inheritance' means nothing.

Since the house belongs to the OP's daughter, the burden of proof SHOULD be on the fiances mom, not the OP's daughter. However, she would have to argue this point in court, she can't just refuse to follow the court order.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by ceara19

Since the house belongs to the OP's daughter, the burden of proof SHOULD be on the fiances mom, not the OP's daughter. However, she would have to argue this point in court, she can't just refuse to follow the court order.

I agree...

[nextwife]

How about this? She boxes up his personal stuff (clothes, photos, yearbooks, etc) and ship them to mom. Then Mom has no reason to come over. UNless mom gets a court order.

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Gracie3787

So I just finished reading thru Ks. probate statutes at [url]www.kslegislature.org[/url]

That link is NOT to the statutes.. it is to the state legislature!

The CORRECT link is
[url]http://www.kslegislature.org/legsrv-statutes/articlesList.do[/url]
Then to Chapter 59.

This is what I found:

Your claims of what you 'found' is crap. The statues do not go to the extent of detail and explanation that you claim. So, how about providing some citations to specific statutes that you claim you 'found'.... specifically on the following claims:

1. Your daughter does NOT have to simply open HER HOME to anyone just because a LAWYER wants her to.

Please provide a link to the specific statute that says that!!

Mother or some other person has to file a petition in probate court, according to the statutes the petition MUST list an inventory of the decedant's personal property along with a description and estimated value. Which means that Mother will have to be able to specify each item and give a description, just listing something like- 1 bed, 1 sofa, 1 TV, one set of dishes, etc. isn't going to be allowed.

And of course, that is not true either. The 'PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE' to the estate must file an inventory (KRS 59-1201). That is completely different than your 'assumption'.

The statutes are written with the assumption that the petitioner will have enough knowledge of the personal property that they can at least give a description.

Yep... but this has NOTHING to do with the problem noted by the OP. And can you 'guess' why.... because the person required to make the inventory is the court appointed personal representative!!

This is the same thing the attorney in Fl told me, if no one can give a description of what the sofa looks like, when it was purchased, etc. they will have a hard time convincing a probate Judge of the actual ownership.

More crap!! The simple fact that there is a claim of ownership by the personal representative, absent a valid claim to the contrary, is sufficient to show ownership to the court.

The probate court does not just automatically assume that evry single item in a home shared by the decedant and another person were the decedants property alone.

Correct, but when two separate people make an equal claim to the property, the court will more than likely 'split' the value.... unless ONE of the two is able to show a receipt or other proof of specific ownership.

The rest of your post is so full of crap... that it would take far too long to undo your idiot 'opinions'. The key though is that you are confused as to who the parties are. With the fiance dying unmarried and without a will, his estate (his PROPERTY) will be distributed in accordance with Kansas intestate law. Simply, that means his parents inherit his property. And yes, they can apply to the court to be appointed 'personal representative' and force the OP to prove her claims of ownership.

Here is the Kansas intestate succession laws for an unmarried decedent:
Heirs other than surviving spouse. Any part of the intestate estate not passing to the surviving spouse as indicated above, or the entire intestate estate if there is no surviving spouse, passes as follows to:
1. Decedent's children, with the issue of a deceased child splitting the deceased child's share.
2. Decedent's parent or parents equally.
3. Heirs of decedent's parents, as if each parent had an equal share and died intestate. If there are no surviving heirs of one parent, everything goes to the heirs of the other parent.