IAAL,if you get a chance...

I am in N.C., and I have joint custody. the ex is named primary and I secondary. Our order has been 'clarified' so many times it is ridiculously still unclear. Legal custody is joint on major life decisions for child...all other matters are to be discussed but primary has final decision power. Issue: June 2001 ex while out of state obtained passport for child (7)...1 month before the new passport parent consent changes. We have both used the passport with only 1 instance that ex refused, but BC worked fine. I vacationed last,Aug with child using passport and on return put passport in safe deposit with my documents,husbands. 3months ago, due to other dispute,ex started demanding passport,verbally. He must give me 30 day notice of any plans to leave state,country,etc w/ child. I said I would give him the passport next time he needed it, when I got notice of such. I have 1st vacatiion,June 7...and need passport for that trip. Today I got a letter 'supposedly' from dept of state demanding child's passport be turned into the government under 51.9. Office hours, can't reach anyone till the am....have any thoughts? Have you seen this before? Thanks

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

My response:

Sure . . . smart move on his part. Here's how the thought process goes in this type of situation. A person (child) can only be issued one passport. Since you won't let him have the passport, he's thinking, "Well, then, neither of us will have it."

So, what he did was cancel the passport. If you were to try and use it, it would now be a federal offense - - because you're on "notice" of the cancellation, and of the "demand" for its return to the State Department.

You can't have it, and neither can he. If you want to take this one step further, make sure that you inform the State Department that you want to place a "hold" on any applications for reissuance of a passport for the child. He's trying to do an "end run" on you, figuring once you turn it in, he can then reapply for a new passport.

So, if you place a "hold" on a new application, of course, he can't reapply for one, say, for 5 years - - or whatever amount of time they are willing to do this.

You must immediately return the passport - - but, make sure to do it with a cover letter and send it via Certified Return Receipt.

IAAL

Thank you for reply.....additionally, is there a time frame for returning passport before I am considered not complying?

On applying for a 'hold', I am assuming this also means I could not obtain a passport and child could not leave country with either of us, correct? My son said ex was taking him to Italy next summer so kinda shooting himself in foot???

I have very legitimate reasons to suspect this letter is not official, but possibly someone doing a favor thinking I will not question authenticity.....would I have any legal recourse anywhere, on any grounds if this letter not fully legite? Thanks again

ps..did not realize one could just call and cancel a passport,weird...

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Originally posted by smh33
Thank you for reply.....additionally, is there a time frame for returning passport before I am considered not complying?

On applying for a 'hold', I am assuming this also means I could not obtain a passport and child could not leave country with either of us, correct? My son said ex was taking him to Italy next summer so kinda shooting himself in foot???

I have very legitimate reasons to suspect this letter is not official, but possibly someone doing a favor thinking I will not question authenticity.....would I have any legal recourse anywhere, on any grounds if this letter not fully legite? Thanks again

ps..did not realize one could just call and cancel a passport,weird...

My response:

Without a passport, that child is going nowhere with no one. So, Italy is definitely out of the question. Of course he's "shooting himself in the foot." It's the "if I can't have the child, you won't either" syndrome. It happens.

I can assure you, your ex-husband didn't "just call and cancel." As you will read, he filled out their affidavit to cancel, and signed it. What he said, one can only guess - - and no, you can't see the affidavit. You must comply by returning the passport immediately. If you have any questions, call the State Department for verification. Here's the controlling law . . .

Sec. 51.8 Cancellation of previously issued passport.

(a) Upon applying for a new passport, an applicant shall submit for
cancellation any previous passport still valid or potentially valid.
(b) If an applicant is unable to produce such a passport for
cancellation, he or she shall submit a signed statement setting forth
the circumstances surrounding the disposition of the passport and if it
is claimed to have been lost, the efforts made to recover it. A
determination will then be made and whether to issue a new passport and
whether such passport shall be limited as to place and periods of
validity.

(22 U.S.C. 2658 and 3926)

[31 FR 13540, Oct. 20, 1966, as amended at 31 FR 14521, Nov. 11, 1966;
49 FR 16989, Apr. 23, 1984]

Sec. 51.9 Passport property of the U.S. Government.

A passport shall at all times remain the property of the United
States and shall be returned to the Government upon demand.

Good luck.

IAAL

IAAL..to update if of any interest...
I spoke with passport services and passport legal advisory in D.C....both said they were unfamiliar with form of letter....they had no examples of....not aware of any case...calls later it becomes issue of only 1 person (sender) has any info, no one else can help, is her case.....

She states request is so they may return passport to my ex. as they were told I have it in possession illegally. I explain my side, she says I must send court order showing joint custody. I ask why ex did not have to send order showing sole before this action. Said ex did....she said he having primary and me secondary is same as ex having sole custody and I have no rights. I inquired about the 'hold' you suggested, she said I cannot do because he has sole custody? Then she added since ex got the passport 1 month before parental consent law, those laws didn't apply to us and legally it belongs to the ex. She said new law only affects renewals and new apps....so I said I lost the passport...yes I know it's a little tit for tat but this whole thing is so stupid anyway...atleast he will have to renew...right?