Billed for NOT being treated in ER

[larryprg]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I was experiencing horrible pain: it felt like every muscle was cramped and someone had driven an industrial stapler into each and all of my joints.

I called the VA and they said to go to the nearest ER ASAP!

I could not stay in the same position for more than 20-30 minutes. After half an hour, two techs took my vitals and I tried to reason with these two saying, "I'm a chronically ill cardiac patient with a triple bypass. I'm suffering chest pains and shortness of breath" (as well as many other symptoms.) I tried to read a long list of symptoms and they said, "Tell them to the Triage Nurse, go back to the waiting room and she'll be with you shortly."

I was about to pass out from this horrible pain and had to shift positions every 15-30 minutes, standing, sitting, shuffling (I could barely walk.) After three hours, I had to lie down. At that time, they gave me a urine specimen cup and said to bring it back. I brought the filled (unusually dark) cup and asked how much longer. When they said it would be at least two more hours, I said I had to leave and the tech just said, "I hope you get better."

I went to the VA (40 miles away) and discovered I was suffering from an acute UTI (Bladder and urinary infection.) What complicated the situation and has crippled me, both physically and mentally, is my testosterone plunged from 550 down to 170 (250 is the critical bottom.) It will now be at least a year before I can walk unaided again and it's possibly permanent. They're just not sure, because this never happened before, to any of them, anyway.

The hospital just sent me a $300+ bill for my ER visit.

What can I do about this situation? What about the $300+ ER Bill they charged for without treating me in any way, other than taking my vitals.

 

[justalayman]

The hospital just sent me a $300+ bill for my ER visit.

You can pay it. You are the one who terminated the treatment and especially given it was a UTI, there was no reason to run off as you did.


as to the testosterone; never heard of a uti causing the problem but there is testosterone replacement therapy available.



but this one:

. I'm suffering chest pains and shortness of breath"

neither the UTI nor low testosterone is going to cause that.

to your testosterone numbers; I presume that is for "total testosterone". The ranges I am finding are 270-1070 ng/Dl. As to a "critical" bottom. You make no sense. Not only can it be treated, it is not going to cause an instantaneous symptom. If you were having problems at the onset of the UTI, you already had low testosterone.

 

[ecmst12]

Low testosterone also does not cause someone to be unable to walk. Otherwise women would all be in wheelchairs.

 

[justalayman]

Low testosterone also does not cause someone to be unable to walk. Otherwise women would all be in wheelchairs.

It can cause a lot of symptoms an average person would not think of. It could conceivably cause a person to be so that they would not be able to walk well. I don't know if it would completely disable a person in that manner but it could cause one to need a walking aid.

and women do have testosterone and when it wanes, they do experience some of the same symptoms men do.

The levels are also not "written in stone". Some people can function with a below standard level, some can't.

 

[LordofBooks]

Unfortunately, you're likely still liable for payment. Since you were the one who terminated your care mid-treatment, you'd be obligated to pay for the service you received up to that point. Even though you weren't satisfied with the level of care you received, from a contract law standpoint, you'd still be responsible.

On the other hand, the better way to deal with this is internally through the hospital's customer service/billing department. Usually if you make a big deal out of it, you can probably at least get a discount.

 

[ecmst12]

What you did is called "Leaving against medical advice". I don't know if you have insurance, but when you leave AMA, your insurance won't cover your bills. But you still have to pay them. Despite your pain, you were not in a life-threatening situation. If you are not in danger of death, at the ER, you wait. The person actually having the heart attack or bleeding out from a major car accident get priority.

 

[swalsh411]

Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, you received medical care and took up ER resources and you should pay for that. Don't be an a-hole and pay your bill. Medial care is already expensive enough. The hospital shouldn't have to waste resources tracking down deadbeats. (which is what you would be if you don't pay it)

 

[xylene]

I'm surprised you were not charged more as multiple diagnostic tests were actually performed.

My ER co-pay is close enough to your ER bill.

 

[larryprg]

I'm surprised you were not charged more as multiple diagnostic tests were actually performed.

My ER co-pay is close enough to your ER bill.

I was not treated in any way at the ER whatsoever, other than having my temp, oxygen and bp taken.

Why should I pay for them such a usurious amount for doing almost nothing?

I am a disabled Vietnam-era Combat Veteran and my wife (who hasn't been able to find a job in the last three years), and I live on my fixed income of $1337/mo.

The VA pays for ALL my medical, but they refused to pay for this one for the same reason, I wasn't treated for anything!

 

[larryprg]

Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, you received medical care and took up ER resources and you should pay for that. Don't be an a-hole and pay your bill. Medial care is already expensive enough. The hospital shouldn't have to waste resources tracking down deadbeats. (which is what you would be if you don't pay it)

As I said earlier:

I was not treated in any way at the ER whatsoever, other than having my temp, oxygen and bp taken.

Why should I pay for them such a usurious amount for doing almost nothing?

I am a disabled Vietnam-era Combat Veteran and my wife (who hasn't been able to find a job in the last three years), and I live on my fixed income of $1337/mo.

The VA pays for ALL my medical, but they refused to pay for this one for the same reason, I wasn't treated for anything!

 

[larryprg]

What you did is called "Leaving against medical advice". I don't know if you have insurance, but when you leave AMA, your insurance won't cover your bills. But you still have to pay them. Despite your pain, you were not in a life-threatening situation. If you are not in danger of death, at the ER, you wait. The person actually having the heart attack or bleeding out from a major car accident get priority.

At the time, we had no clue whatsoever that I was NOT in a life-threatening situation. Again, I was a cardiac patient with chest pains and difficult breathing. Later, we learned that all my muscles were affected, which also affected my diaphragm, which made it difficult and painful just to breathe.

I could follow your logic about "Leaving against medical advice," except I received no legal advice whatsoever. I never even got to speak to the Triage Nurse.

When we finally got to the ER at the VA Hospital (40 miles away), they said I should have been given major pain relief and antibiotics immediately and taking so long only made my condition worse.

 

[Proserpina]

At the time, we had no clue whatsoever that I was NOT in a life-threatening situation. Again, I was a cardiac patient with chest pains and difficult breathing. Later, we learned that all my muscles were affected, which also affected my diaphragm, which made it difficult and painful just to breathe.

I could follow your logic about "Leaving against medical advice," except I received no legal advice whatsoever. I never even got to speak to the Triage Nurse.

When we finally got to the ER at the VA Hospital (40 miles away), they said I should have been given major pain relief and antibiotics immediately and taking so long only made my condition worse.

So when you actually left, were you discharged?

Did you sign a form? Just get up and walk out?

Nobody said anything about legal advice. It's AMA - against MEDICAL advice.

 

[larryprg]

You can pay it. You are the one who terminated the treatment and especially given it was a UTI, there was no reason to run off as you did.


as to the testosterone; never heard of a uti causing the problem but there is testosterone replacement therapy available.



but this one:

neither the UTI nor low testosterone is going to cause that.

to your testosterone numbers; I presume that is for "total testosterone". The ranges I am finding are 270-1070 ng/Dl. As to a "critical" bottom. You make no sense. Not only can it be treated, it is not going to cause an instantaneous symptom. If you were having problems at the onset of the UTI, you already had low testosterone.

That was the one of the causes of the dramatic complications. Just a few weeks earlier, the VA had terminated my TRT (testosterone replacement treatment.) My testosterone plunged before I got the UTI, then the infection created a horrible condition that will last for a very long time, if not permanent. When this occurred, the VA immediately returned the TRT and my testosterone shot back up to 695 in a few weeks.

The VA would not pay the bill because they didn't treat me and I'm not going to either.

You DO NOT let a chronically-ill cardiac patient with a pain level of nine out of ten wait without some kind of treatment or even trying to give a preliminary diagnosis for that long. This is medical negligence, if not even malpractice.

 

[justalayman]

After half an hour, two techs took my vitals and I tried to reason with these two saying, "I'm a chronically ill cardiac patient with a triple bypass. I'm suffering chest pains and shortness of breath" (as well as many other symptoms.) I tried to read a long list of symptoms and they said, "Tell them to the Triage Nurse, go back to the waiting room and she'll be with you shortly."

I was about to pass out from this horrible pain and had to shift positions every 15-30 minutes, standing, sitting, shuffling (I could barely walk.) After three hours, I had to lie down. At that time, they gave me a urine specimen cup and said to bring it back. I brought the filled (unusually dark) cup and asked how much longer.

you were not treated because you left before they could treat you. You were admitted into the ER. There was time expended on the preliminary steps that have to be done prior to any actual treatment, then you left. If you had stuck around to have your urine tested, you would have been diagnosed.


and if you didn't know; a urinalysis is not typical for a heart attack. It is typical for checking for a UTI.

seems like they were on the right track.

I went to the VA (40 miles away)

so, you could drive for an hour and then go through another triage and urinalysis and blood tests but you couldn't wait at the hospital do have the same thing done.


the reason your insurance is not paying this is likely to be because you left the hospital without being discharged.

 

[larryprg]

So when you actually left, were you discharged?

Did you sign a form? Just get up and walk out?

Nobody said anything about legal advice. It's AMA - against MEDICAL advice.

I'm still not very well and have difficulty with words. I meant medical not legal.

I was in EXCRUCIATING pain and left for four hours. I had to get treatment soon, so we went to the VA where they said I should've been treated immediately for pain management and antibiotics.

You think I was gonna wait in line to sign out? I couldn't even think at the time!