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  1. #1
    cockerspaniel is offline Junior Member
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    Question is this blackmail?

    What is the name of your state?MO
    I'm considering a civil law suit for psychiatric malpractice - sexual misconduct. However, I'd rather settle privately to avoid hurting innocent people. If I say, "I would not puruse legal action for X amount" is that considered illegal? The $ would hurt him, and give me back a lot of what was lost due to his mishandling of the situation. Proving it is not a problem at all. It seems fair, but it sounds wrong. But if I don't take legal action and he refuses to pay me what I really feel is fair, then do I just walk away while he has lost nothing, and I have lost my marriage, time with my children, and a lot of lost income/financial stability?
  2. #2
    rmet4nzkx is offline Senior Member
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    That would be extortion.
    If there is cause for a lawsuit, then sue.
    If it is a matter of ethics, make a complaint to the medical board.
    Your post is far to vague to respond further.
    Just because one partner sees a mental health professional and a divorce results, or that transference occurs on the part of the client/patient doesn't necessiarly mean that sexual misconduct ocured, although it does happen. You have not provided anything to indicate that has happened.
  3. #3
    cockerspaniel is offline Junior Member
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    I have spoken with the dr and he acknowledges that he mishandled the transference/countertransference while I was his patient. He initiated a sexual relationship about a year later, that lasted several years. Proving this would be very simple. He also should have prescribed an ssri while I was in treatment. A different doctor did this as soon as I stopped seeing him, and it was very effective. I have had a very hard time over the last few years, as a result of his mistreatment. Which he agrees with. However, he didn't maliciously set me up - he had problems of his own that made him act in a way, that wound up hurting me. My dilemma is that I was hurt. I can't get my marriage back, I can't get time back, but I can get some money which would buy me time - time to heal and be with my kids. But, I don't want to pursue a civil lawsuit because I don't want to hurt his family. I don't want to hurt anyone, including myself. Why can't we each get a lawyer and work out a financial arrangement without going to court. He is now seeing a therapist himself to understand how he was so "blind" and why he ignored so many instances that the situation was out of control.
  4. #4
    rmet4nzkx is offline Senior Member
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    See an attorney, most lawsuits are settled out of court, but you can't extort him. He may want to keep it quiet anyway as most sexual misconduct lawsuits are not covered by malpractice insurance unless he was working for someone else. He is a master manipulator, he will have charmed his wife and everyone else, often times the victims will blame themselves and do anything to protect him, just as you are doing now. You are hurting everyone as much by protecting his as you would do by openly suing him, he will trip up eventually but how many will be hurt in the mean time?


    [url]http://www.msnbc.com/Onair/nbc/dateline/psych/contact.asp[/url]
  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ****erspaniel
    What is the name of your state?MO
    I'm considering a civil law suit for psychiatric malpractice - sexual misconduct. However, I'd rather settle privately to avoid hurting innocent people. If I say, "I would not puruse legal action for X amount" is that considered illegal? The $ would hurt him, and give me back a lot of what was lost due to his mishandling of the situation. Proving it is not a problem at all. It seems fair, but it sounds wrong. But if I don't take legal action and he refuses to pay me what I really feel is fair, then do I just walk away while he has lost nothing, and I have lost my marriage, time with my children, and a lot of lost income/financial stability?

    I think you are just as guilty of sexual misconduct as your shrink. You just have to look at it from its right perspective. You were married at the time you started sleeping with this psychiatrist. it wasnít a one night stand. It wasnít a mistake that just happened. It was an affair that lasted several years. Maybe along the line your husband got wind of the affair and sent you packing. Further down the line the relationship with the psychiatrist turned sour and now you are asking him to pay for the years you slept with him. Doesnít that sound like prostitution? He actually doesnít owe you a cent. You lost your husband, family and time with your kids out of poor judgment .Adultery has an array of hidden consequences. Breaking up your family is just one of those consequences. You think it will be fair if he pays you some dollars?. Where is your sense of fairness?.what about your ex husband? wouldnt it be aslo fair for you to pay him for the pain and suffering your affair must have caused him? You ve already hurt innocent people---Your husband and kids.. Dont do more harm.This the time to put damage-control in place.
    I wouldnít even bother taking it to the court if I were you because most judges will see you as malicious and immoral. For your information, most judges I know donít like malicious and immoral plaintiffs.

    As per blackmail; You know that it is blackmail. you wouldnít have asked the question if you didnít. If it smells and feels like blackmail then it has to be blackmail. Go slow here. You could be walking into a landmine. blackmail here in the United States carries a stiff penalty. You can be sequestered for at least 15 years if you are found guilty.

    Dr Nwaizuzu ( [url]www.reviewphysician.com[/url] )

    ....Be relentlessly positive ,focusing whenever possible on successes not failures, thatís how you get somewhere in life
    Last edited by reviewphysician; 03-20-2005 at 10:18 PM.
  6. #6
    rmet4nzkx is offline Senior Member
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    I'm sorry I beg to differ on a legal standpoint with reviewphysician. Most states have statutes re sexual contact with patients and/or client and all professional organizations make sexual relationships with a patient/client actionable. It matters not how long or intense the relationship. While both actors have a moral and ethical responsibility, the professional has a greater responsibility and the weight is on the side with public policy. With the studies done, most who finally get caught, have done it before and will do it again. The chances of rehabilitation are virtually nonexistant, for that reasons, professional organizations will have rehab opportunities for alcohol and drug rehab but not for sexual misconduct.

    You do bring up a good point, her ex husband has a casue of action against the psychiatrist as well and with the licensing board.

    Agreed, extortion has no place in this issue, so if OP sues, collecting any settlement may be a problem without malpractice covering it and perhaps why she wants to extort so he can still work to pay her and still abuse other patients. A law suit may end the cycle but not yeild much financial gain.

    Here is a link on dual relationships.

    [url]http://kspope.com/dual/index.php[/url]
    Last edited by rmet4nzkx; 03-21-2005 at 06:28 AM. Reason: adding link on Dual relationships
  7. #7
    wincha is offline Junior Member
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    psychiatrist

    it doesn't matter what the doctors problems are what he did was illegal and he needs to be reported to the ama. plus not hurting his family. he could be doing this with other women. his wife has a right to know. see an attorney. i live in mo what city are you in?
  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmet4nzkx
    I'm sorry I beg to differ on a legal standpoint with reviewphysician. Most states have statutes re sexual contact with patients and/or client and all professional organizations make sexual relationships with a patient/client actionable. It matters not how long or intense the relationship. While both actors have a moral and ethical responsibility, the professional has a greater responsibility and the weight is on the side with public policy. With the studies done, most who finally get caught, have done it before and will do it again. The chances of rehabilitation are virtually nonexistant, for that reasons, professional organizations will have rehab opportunities for alcohol and drug rehab but not for sexual misconduct.

    You do bring up a good point, her ex husband has a casue of action against the psychiatrist as well and with the licensing board.

    Agreed, extortion has no place in this issue, so if OP sues, collecting any settlement may be a problem without malpractice covering it and perhaps why she wants to extort so he can still work to pay her and still abuse other patients. A law suit may end the cycle but not yeild much financial gain.

    Here is a link on dual relationships.

    [url]http://kspope.com/dual/index.php[/url]

    Dear, rmet4nzkx, If you look closely at the American society of today you will find it a little different from the American society of yesterday. These days the society is increasingly holding women responsible for their immoral behavior. For instance If a woman allows a man to shred her bra in the super bowl half time she is held accountable. if a woman sleeps with a teenage boy and gets pregnant she goes to jail. if a woman sexually harasses a man in the work place she gets the same punishment a guy would get.

    It does seem like the society, out of the blues, is fed up with some women participating in immoral behavior and blaming it on somebody else just because they are supposedly the weaker sex. The society is saying NO these days. Everybody should be accountable for his or her own action irrespective of their sex or title. This is what this whole thing is all about. I ve seen a lot of women going out of their way to seduce male doctors. Shouldnít there be some kind of punishment for such women? Doesnít it always take two to tangle? the women who seduce their psychiatrist are also the ones who seduce their surgeons, lawyers, plumbers, and gardeners. Our present society is increasingly decreasing its tolerance to immorality and sometime in the future there will be punishment for anybody who seduces anybody inappropriately be ye patient, doctor, plumber or housewife

    Dr Nwaizuzu ( [url]www.reviewphysician.com[/url] )

    ....Be relentlessly positive ,focusing whenever possible on successes not failures, thatís how you get somewhere in life
    Last edited by reviewphysician; 03-22-2005 at 06:06 PM.
  9. #9
    rmet4nzkx is offline Senior Member
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    Reviewphysician,
    I am citing the current, statutory and professional codes [url]http://kspope.com/ethcodes/index.php[/url] [url]http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/8503.html[/url] (see below)
    [url]http://www.psych.org/psych_pract/ethics/ppaethics.cfm[/url]
    NOT personal opinion.

    The situations you cite are not the issue here except for the one re a teacher either male or female having sex with a minor student, most colleges bad such activities with students as well. I won't go into a long discussion of the subject, other than to say that the rules and codes of conduct are there to help both the professional and patient/client and differ between professions and even within a profession. Some of these allow a personal relationship at a certain point, but are meant to limit exploitation. This is a problem in the field of psychotherapy where "transference" is a factor and a tool in therapy, one not to be abused. It's not a matter of who seduced whom, it is a matter of who has more power in the relationship. In this instance if both were free to carry on a relationship, there might not be any exploitation, but in this case both actors were in relationships.

    [url]http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/8503.html[/url]
    E-8.14 Sexual Misconduct in the Practice of Medicine

    Sexual contact that occurs concurrent with the physician-patient relationship constitutes sexual misconduct. Sexual or romantic interactions between physicians and patients detract from the goals of the physician-patient relationship, may exploit the vulnerability of the patient, may obscure the physicianís objective judgment concerning the patientís health care, and ultimately may be detrimental to the patientís well-being.

    If a physician has reason to believe that non-sexual contact with a patient may be perceived as or may lead to sexual contact, then he or she should avoid the non-sexual contact. At a minimum, a physicianís ethical duties include terminating the physician-patient relationship before initiating a dating, romantic, or sexual relationship with a patient.

    Sexual or romantic relationships between a physician and a former patient may be unduly influenced by the previous physician-patient relationship. Sexual or romantic relationships with former patients are unethical if the physician uses or exploits trust, knowledge, emotions, or influence derived from the previous professional relationship. (I, II, IV)

    Issued December 1989; Updated March 1992 based on the report "Sexual Misconduct in the Practice of Medicine," adopted December 1990 (JAMA. 1991; 266: 2741-2745).
  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmet4nzkx
    Reviewphysician,
    I am citing the current, statutory and professional codes [url]http://kspope.com/ethcodes/index.php[/url] [url]http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/8503.html[/url] (see below)
    [url]http://www.psych.org/psych_pract/ethics/ppaethics.cfm[/url]
    NOT personal opinion.

    The situations you cite are not the issue here except for the one re a teacher either male or female having sex with a minor student, most colleges bad such activities with students as well. I won't go into a long discussion of the subject, other than to say that the rules and codes of conduct are there to help both the professional and patient/client and differ between professions and even within a profession. Some of these allow a personal relationship at a certain point, but are meant to limit exploitation. This is a problem in the field of psychotherapy where "transference" is a factor and a tool in therapy, one not to be abused. It's not a matter of who seduced whom, it is a matter of who has more power in the relationship. In this instance if both were free to carry on a relationship, there might not be any exploitation, but in this case both actors were in relationships.

    [url]http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/8503.html[/url]
    E-8.14 Sexual Misconduct in the Practice of Medicine

    Sexual contact that occurs concurrent with the physician-patient relationship constitutes sexual misconduct. Sexual or romantic interactions between physicians and patients detract from the goals of the physician-patient relationship, may exploit the vulnerability of the patient, may obscure the physicianís objective judgment concerning the patientís health care, and ultimately may be detrimental to the patientís well-being.

    If a physician has reason to believe that non-sexual contact with a patient may be perceived as or may lead to sexual contact, then he or she should avoid the non-sexual contact. At a minimum, a physicianís ethical duties include terminating the physician-patient relationship before initiating a dating, romantic, or sexual relationship with a patient.

    Sexual or romantic relationships between a physician and a former patient may be unduly influenced by the previous physician-patient relationship. Sexual or romantic relationships with former patients are unethical if the physician uses or exploits trust, knowledge, emotions, or influence derived from the previous professional relationship. (I, II, IV)

    Issued December 1989; Updated March 1992 based on the report "Sexual Misconduct in the Practice of Medicine," adopted December 1990 (JAMA. 1991; 266: 2741-2745).

    Donít get me wrong. I am not condoning sexual relationship between a doctor and a patient. My question is this; Shouldnít we also punish patients who initiate this sexual relationship? I refuse to believe that they are just innocent bystanders being taking advantage of
  11. #11
    cockerspaniel is offline Junior Member
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    State - MO

    The responses by Dr. N. are naieve, and I hope he really isn't a doctor. I was the first one to argue that in my situation, it would be ok to start a sexual relationship because our case was "the exception." The sexual relationship started one year after I was no longer his patient (there was no sexual contact while I was married). At the time, I didn't see the transference/countertransference issue. It took many years before I could see that he had his own personal problems which, I think, resulted in him failing to treat the situation correctly, or refer me to someone else. I sincerely thought that we were on equal ground because I was no longer his patient. Hindsight is 20/20, and I see all the signs now that it was a situation completely out of control, and very unhealthy. Dr. N. needs to understand that I went to him when in crisis, he did help me, unfortunately, he messed up on a very crucial area. The situation was not resolved at all, and he rationalized that it was ok now, because I wasn't his patient. Maybe it wouldn't have been as damaging if the transference/countert. would have been handled correctly and resolved. But if that had been the case, I never would have wanted to pursue a sexual relationship. He represented too many men - father, husband, therapist. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to detangle and think you can have an equal, normal, relationship - because it starts out imbalanced and the intimacy that does develop is not normal.
    As I said, this realization was slow to come to. He and I discussed all these issues for years, not seeing the truth. We both ignored what was so obvious. I believe that he didn't do this intentionally, he is very sorry, he wants to understand why he choose his actions. I would pursue this legally if I thought others would be hurt, but I don't at this point, for too many reasons that I won't go into now. I do feel responsibility, but it is similar to a situation of incest - the child is not at fault. I was an adult, but the power imbalance results in you not being able to think like a healthy adult. You may not be able to understand that. Like I said, I thought it would be fine.
  12. #12
    rmet4nzkx is offline Senior Member
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    While you did a good job explaining the problems with these relationships, the exploitation and abuse, you still have a choice, professional complaint/sexual misconduct lawsuit, but you cannot extort with threats.

    I suspect that if he left his wife for you, you would not be here.
  13. #13
    purple2 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by wincha
    it doesn't matter what the doctors problems are what he did was illegal and he needs to be reported to the ama
    The AMA is not a governmental authority.
  14. #14
    rmet4nzkx is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by purple2
    The AMA is not a governmental authority.
    If the doctor is a member of the AMA their ethics committee will process a complaint, this could be in addition to any other formal complaints. The AMA does verify licensing with each state medical board. Each state medical board individually manages the doctors medical license and the public information may vary from state to state. I know of a physician who was licensed in 3 states following surrender of his license it was noted on only 2 of the 3 sites so he was still licensed in the third state. Also information on medical board sites may vary from immediate to years later depending on the circumstances. Also you may only be told that there has been action, you may have to pay a nominal fee to obtain the public records or decisions.
  15. #15
    ablessin is offline Member
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    You had an affair - you were not his patient - so there is little grounds for patient/physician misconduct here**************. You said it yourself - the affair began a year after you were no longer a patient. It was a free standing affair - would this be such an issue if he was not a physician? And that it dragged on and on it was not a fling....

    I would not go after him if I was you. You're going to cause your family/kids a lot of embarrassment and make them the talk of the town. How nice of you! For what - MONEY? PLEASE - your ex husband should sue you on the same basis you want to sue the Doctor! Pain and suffering and embarrassment!

    Look out - you're playing with fire and you're gonna get burned.
    DROP it is my advice - the court rooms are to be used for real problems, not some bitter woman looking to make a quick buck on an affair - you could come out looking like you planned to sue him for $ after an affair was "over" -

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