Childbirth issues and consent to induce labor?

[pa1981]

What is the name of your state? PA

This has always bothered me, though at this point there is nothing I can do. I would simply like to know, for the future, what steps I could have taken...I didn't even report it to the hospital and opinions are divided on whether I should have.

Three years ago, I had a completely normal healthy first pregnacy. Got all my pre-natal care and tests. No complications. No diseases. Everything perfect.

The day of my 38 week appointment I was told my son was breech. The doctor began scheduling my C-section (hospital policy) when I asked to try an external version <sp?> instead, which is a fairly safe proceedure where the doctor physically massages your belly to get the baby into a head down position so that a vaginal birth can be attempted.

Doctor scrunched up her face and explained that they are difficult to do, don't work most of the time, and are VERY painful to the mother.

I said I understood that it was painful but that I knew it had about a 50/50 shot of working and there are other doctors in the hospital and one must be able to do it if she felt it was out of her expertise. Plus I pointed out that a C-section is much MORE painful and dangerous to boot so I'd take my chance for a successful version, even if it was slim and would hurt.

She still was very negitive and said she would send me to ultrasound to see if I even had enough amniotic fluid to do it. I did. She then tried to schedule my "version" for the week after my due date. I told her there HAD to be a way to do it sooner (this was a LARGE women's hospital that SPECIALISED in childbirth) and that I would pick a different doctor if I had to because I knew the risks of surgery. She then told me she just needed to do one more internal exam to see if she could move the date up any. This exam hurt worse than any exam before that. The nurse even commented "Honey if you think that's painful how do you expect to deal with labor?"

My water broke that night. Like, 3 hours later.

Since the baby was still in breech I was sent to surgery. My son was born healthy but with extra fluid in his lungs (common for C-section babies) and mild jaundice so he was kept in NICU for 4 days. I had no complications aside from anemia and a HORRIBLE spinal headache which is caused by the spinal tap they did for surgery. After two days they did a blood patch to fix it since it was quite severe. I had intended on breastfeeding and rooming in but my son was in NICU. I couldn't even be wheeled down there for two days to see him because by the time I got to the elevator I was puking (dryheaving really since I could not eat yet) due to the spinal headache and they do NOT let people who are puking into the NICU. I saw him in pictures for the first two days. And until the day before my son was born my pregnancy had been FINE.

Here's the kicker: Another nurse whom I was friendly with at my pre-natal appts. stuck her head into my room to say "hi" while I was recovering the night of my surgery. At one point she exclaims "I didn't even know you were here earlier to get your membranes stripped! I thought it was just a normal appointment!" I think my questions and the look on my face unsettled her because she made an excuse to leave without answering any of my questions.

To sum it up: My membranes were stripped without asking. I didn't see my son for two days after birth. I was not even given the chance to attempt a much safer vaginal birth (i.e. after the version...I knew if it did not work I would get a C-section but I would have felt I tried all options). Now I am considered "high risk" for every additional pregnancy and have an extremely high chance of all my future children having to be born sugically even WITHOUT other complications. I have a scar on my uterus that will always have the potential of ripping open. And on top of that, I feel helpless anytime I am in a doctors office...like no matter what I think or feel the doctor will just do whatever in conveient for them without even telling me.

My family convinced me that with a healthy baby it didn't matter. I was so upset but too tired to do anything and I would just get so angry when I thought about it that I literally had to calm myself and force my mind not to think about it in order to live a normal life. I went to a different hospital for my 6 week check up and could not even explain to the doctor why I refused to go back to the place that had actually performed the surgery. I also became a pain in the ass and questioned my son's pediatrician on every single thing he did in regaurds to my son at EVERY check-up...for a long time I had zilch trust in doctors.

Anyway, I wish I had filed a complaint. Or something. It's been three years, and it's hard to get across how upsetting it is for someone to INDUCE YOUR LABOR by swirling their finger around your uterus forcing you into surgery without even informing you first can be. My son is healthy...but I will always have the scars. I mean hell, it's been three years, my son is a toddler and I am still upset enough to ask what I SHOULD have done and whether I could have gotten this doctor into trouble at her hospital.

Thanks to anyone who read this whole thing

 

[lya]

I read several sites and am posting one question and answer from a childbirth educator's site (referenced). It appears nothing was done out of the ordinary or below the minimum standard of care; so, like it or not, you have no valid reason to seek legal recourse or revenge of any kind. It's been three years; let it go.

Q. I am 37 weeks pregnant and I was interested in getting some more information about stripping of the membranes. I have had trouble finding stuff on it and I was wondering if you can tell me more about it and how it works.

A. Stripping of the membranes is done by the practitioner during a vaginal exam. While checking the cervix, they slide their finger between the cervix and the amniotic sac, and sweep their finger around, partially separating the sac from the uterus as far as they can reach. This will sometimes irritate the uterus enough to begin labor and is thought to release prostaglandins that play a role in labor. It is often done without the woman's consent, though since it really is an attempt to induce labor the woman should be given the choice to refuse. Stripping the membranes can be painful for a woman and she often will have some vaginal bleeding afterward. Labor may or may not begin, although it seems to be more effective if done sometime past the due date with a very soft, ripe cervix. A risk of the procedure is that the caregiver will break the bag of waters rather than just separate it, and that labor will not begin, starting a time clock that could lead to induction with Pitocin. Another risk is infection, though most caregivers use sterile gloves if they intend to strip membranes and this reduces the risk of infection.

reference: childbirth.org

 

[ecmst12]

I think the only thing you could have done is to find a doctor (at the beginning of your pregnancy) who was philisophically compatible with you and agreed with your commitment to saving a c-section for a last resort. You *might* even be able to find a doctor willing to try a VBAC with you for your next pregnancy but it will be difficult in PA. It's a risky thing and with malpractice insurance what it is here, most doctors won't/can't even try it. I don't know where in PA you live but a friend of mine who lives in NJ found a doctor who was willing to try it with her...she's due in June so I don't know if it will work or not!

At any rate, I hope you at least severed your relationship with THAT doctor's office.

 

[longsally111]

What is the name of your state? PA

This has always bothered me, though at this point there is nothing I can do. I would simply like to know, for the future, what steps I could have taken...I didn't even report it to the hospital and opinions are divided on whether I should have.

Three years ago, I had a completely normal healthy first pregnacy. Got all my pre-natal care and tests. No complications. No diseases. Everything perfect.

The day of my 38 week appointment I was told my son was breech. The doctor began scheduling my C-section (hospital policy) when I asked to try an external version <sp?> instead, which is a fairly safe proceedure where the doctor physically massages your belly to get the baby into a head down position so that a vaginal birth can be attempted.

Doctor scrunched up her face and explained that they are difficult to do, don't work most of the time, and are VERY painful to the mother.

ok, you wanted a procedure that your doctor did not feel was safe for you.

I said I understood that it was painful but that I knew it had about a 50/50 shot of working and there are other doctors in the hospital and one must be able to do it if she felt it was out of her expertise. Plus I pointed out that a C-section is much MORE painful and dangerous to boot so I'd take my chance for a successful version, even if it was slim and would hurt.

She still was very negitive and said she would send me to ultrasound to see if I even had enough amniotic fluid to do it. I did. She then tried to schedule my "version" for the week after my due date. I told her there HAD to be a way to do it sooner (this was a LARGE women's hospital that SPECIALISED in childbirth) and that I would pick a different doctor if I had to because I knew the risks of surgery. She then told me she just needed to do one more internal exam to see if she could move the date up any. This exam hurt worse than any exam before that. The nurse even commented "Honey if you think that's painful how do you expect to deal with labor?"

so, you again, you wanted a procedure that your medically trained dr did not want to preform. You had the right to find another dr and you didn't.

My water broke that night. Like, 3 hours later.

Since the baby was still in breech I was sent to surgery. My son was born healthy but with extra fluid in his lungs (common for C-section babies) and mild jaundice so he was kept in NICU for 4 days. I had no complications aside from anemia and a HORRIBLE spinal headache which is caused by the spinal tap they did for surgery. After two days they did a blood patch to fix it since it was quite severe. I had intended on breastfeeding and rooming in but my son was in NICU. I couldn't even be wheeled down there for two days to see him because by the time I got to the elevator I was puking (dryheaving really since I could not eat yet) due to the spinal headache and they do NOT let people who are puking into the NICU. I saw him in pictures for the first two days. And until the day before my son was born my pregnancy had been FINE.

ok, the headache can be a complication from a spinal, it happens, get over it.

Here's the kicker: Another nurse whom I was friendly with at my pre-natal appts. stuck her head into my room to say "hi" while I was recovering the night of my surgery. At one point she exclaims "I didn't even know you were here earlier to get your membranes stripped! I thought it was just a normal appointment!" I think my questions and the look on my face unsettled her because she made an excuse to leave without answering any of my questions.

that is not a kicker. She would not know unless she read your medical records that your membranes were stripped. You do not even know it for sure unless you got your records.

To sum it up: My membranes were stripped without asking. I didn't see my son for two days after birth. I was not even given the chance to attempt a much safer vaginal birth (i.e. after the version...I knew if it did not work I would get a C-section but I would have felt I tried all options). Now I am considered "high risk" for every additional pregnancy and have an extremely high chance of all my future children having to be born sugically even WITHOUT other complications. I have a scar on my uterus that will always have the potential of ripping open. And on top of that, I feel helpless anytime I am in a doctors office...like no matter what I think or feel the doctor will just do whatever in conveient for them without even telling me.

no, to sum it up, you had a safe delivery, a healthy baby and are griping. You are any medical professionals worst nightmare.

My family convinced me that with a healthy baby it didn't matter. I was so upset but too tired to do anything and I would just get so angry when I thought about it that I literally had to calm myself and force my mind not to think about it in order to live a normal life. I went to a different hospital for my 6 week check up and could not even explain to the doctor why I refused to go back to the place that had actually performed the surgery. I also became a pain in the ass and questioned my son's pediatrician on every single thing he did in regaurds to my son at EVERY check-up...for a long time I had zilch trust in doctors.

ok, you became paranoid and acted irrationally.

Anyway, I wish I had filed a complaint. Or something. It's been three years, and it's hard to get across how upsetting it is for someone to INDUCE YOUR LABOR by swirling their finger around your uterus forcing you into surgery without even informing you first can be. My son is healthy...but I will always have the scars. I mean hell, it's been three years, my son is a toddler and I am still upset enough to ask what I SHOULD have done and whether I could have gotten this doctor into trouble at her hospital.

Thanks to anyone who read this whole thing

You wanted a procedure that your medical professional wanted to avoid and you are mad. You should have hired someone else, you didn't. You went into labor and had a c-section done and had a healthy baby and you are mad. You developeda spinal headache and blame others even though it usually happens with an epidural and you are mad. You will never be happy and if they had done everything the way you wanted and it went bad, you would be mad. You should not get pregnant again becasue in your mind, your uterus will rupture and it will be the longest 9 months of your families life and got help the dr who delivers your next child.

 

[lya]

I guess we should point out that the procedure to turn the baby by pushing on the abdomen is extremely painful and exhausting for the patient, the nurses, and the MD. The baby often doesn't turn or resumes breach position almost immediately. Additionally, the procedure can induce labor without the promise of anything but a C-section.

 

[ecmst12]

It seems the patient was aware of this and wanted to make the attempt anyway...she really had nothing to lose, worst case scenario she ends up having a c-section, which is the same as if the procedure was NOT attempted.

 

[Idori]

Without going into it much I will tell you I had an unwanted, unnecessary c-section with my first child. I had each of my next children vaginally with a midwife. Midwifery care is much more likely to get you a positive birth experience whether you chose a c-section next time or not. It is your choice, don't let anyone bully you into doing an 'elective' c-section that you don't want. Informed consent required that you actually be thouroughly informed and your choice respected.

It is a serious violation that you experienced it also happens quite often. I know it is hard to find good care but it is worth the effort. Please check out VBAC support groups in your area. Or PM if you'd like to discuss VBACs or getting over a scarring birth experience further. ICAN is also a support group available across the country and online that may have a lot of helpful info for you. Legal and otherwise. Best Wishes on a full recovery for you in time. (It took me four years and two positive birth experiences later to get out from under the emotional baggage the first experience left me with.) God bless you and your family.

 

[LAWMED]

There is no excuse for what was done to you. If the OB did not want to attempt a version then she should have referred you to someone that would. She stripped your membranes knowing this would be a method of inducing labor which you would probably not recognize and could be done without your knowledge thus avoiding an attempt to turn the fetus. It is no small matter since a future Vaginal Birth After C-Section (VBAC) has less chance of success and carries more complications which increases the likelihood of future pregnancies requiring a C-section delivery.

 

[lya]

It seems the patient was aware of this and wanted to make the attempt anyway...she really had nothing to lose, worst case scenario she ends up having a c-section, which is the same as if the procedure was NOT attempted.

Surely, you know that all of us are aware of the obvious information in your reply.

 

[longsally111]

You know, I am shocked by some of the responses here. The op does not know for a fact that her membranes were stripped, she is assuming and so was the "friend" who stuck her head in the door. This woman delivered a healthy baby and her only gripe is she developed a headache from the spinal which most due even if they have an epidural for a vaginal delivery. She needs to get over it and so do most of you.

 

[LAWMED]

This woman delivered a healthy baby and her only gripe is she developed a headache from the spinal which most due even if they have an epidural for a vaginal delivery..

FALSE The vast majority of spinal anesthetics for C-section do not result in a spinal headache. Epidural anesthetics NEVER result in such a headache unless the sub-arachnoid space was inadvertently punctured.

She needs to get over it and so do most of you.

Right...get over being lied to and being denied a common medical technique which might have avoided the need for a c-section (and all the potential issues it causes for future pregnancies).

 

[longsally111]

lawmed, is it possible to have a spinal headache from a epidural? YES IT IS
is it possible to have one from a spinal? YES IT IS

we do blood patches ALL THE TIME in the ER!!!!! Are all of these women able to sue for malpractice? NO THEY ARE NOT!!!!!!!! This is a common occurance and a possible
complication that everyone is aware of. She has NO CASE because she developed a headache and didn't get to see her son!!!!!!!!! She delivered a healthy baby, SHE HAS NO CASE!!!!!!!

YOU DO NOT KNOW for a fact and neither does the OP that her membranes were stripped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is guessing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is 3 years later!!!!!!!!!! If she is still dwelling on this, she needs psychological help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LAWMED]

lawmed, is it possible to have a spinal headache from a epidural? YES IT IS
is it possible to have one from a spinal? YES IT IS

we do blood patches ALL THE TIME in the ER!!!!! Are all of these women able to sue for malpractice? NO THEY ARE NOT!!!!!!!! This is a common occurance and a possible
complication that everyone is aware of. She has NO CASE because she developed a headache and didn't get to see her son!!!!!!!!! She delivered a healthy baby, SHE HAS NO CASE!!!!!!!

YOU DO NOT KNOW for a fact and neither does the OP that her membranes were stripped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is guessing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is 3 years later!!!!!!!!!! If she is still dwelling on this, she needs psychological help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW! Cool your jets and try reading the OP original post. You are the only one who has mentioned a "case". The OP merely wanted some info: "This has always bothered me, though at this point there is nothing I can do. I would simply like to know, for the future, what steps I could have taken...I didn't even report it to the hospital and opinions are divided on whether I should have."
No one has made an issue of the spinal headache, the delay in seeing the newborn, or the bloodpatch...except you. The failure of the OB to attempt a version is the issue. What a shame she wanted some simple information but instead is told to "get over it", attacked for asking, or recommended for psychiatric treatment.

 

[longsally111]

WOW! Cool your jets and try reading the OP original post. You are the only one who has mentioned a "case". The OP merely wanted some info: "This has always bothered me, though at this point there is nothing I can do. I would simply like to know, for the future, what steps I could have taken...I didn't even report it to the hospital and opinions are divided on whether I should have."
No one has made an issue of the spinal headache, the delay in seeing the newborn, or the bloodpatch...except you. The failure of the OB to attempt a version is the issue. What a shame she wanted some simple information but instead is told to "get over it", attacked for asking, or recommended for psychiatric treatment.

it seems you are the one who misread the post. You state there was no issue in the headache or her delay in seeing her child. PLEASE REREAD what she wrote. This is one of her MAIN issues. also, she states that although her son is healthy and he is 3, she is still "upset". yes, if this is the case and she is dwelling on this that long, she has issues.

 

[lya]

longsally

The main delusion the OP has is that a C-section could have been avoided if she had not been wronged by stripping of the membranes.

The headache and other stuff is padding of the damages to increase the imaginary award from the imaginary damages.