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Doctors will not provide required care

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amommy

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

My husband has been disabled since 2008 and has been on the same medicine since then. We have been in NY for over two months. Doctor is refusing to prescribe him medicine he urgently needs and sent him to a pain specialist which took a month to get in to see and now the pain specialist will not give him medicine. My husband cannot walk without being in pain, there are days he can't get out of the bed and can't even lift the toilet seat up. They are causing him to suffer without just cause. Because they will not prescribe his pain medicine he has to take a dozen over the counter pain pills a day which is going to cause more health issues to his organs. There has to be something legally we can do to make these doctors prescribe his pain medicine.
Please help
 


quincy

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

My husband has been disabled since 2008 and has been on the same medicine since then. We have been in NY for over two months. Doctor is refusing to prescribe him medicine he urgently needs and sent him to a pain specialist which took a month to get in to see and now the pain specialist will not give him medicine. My husband cannot walk without being in pain, there are days he can't get out of the bed and can't even lift the toilet seat up. They are causing him to suffer without just cause. Because they will not prescribe his pain medicine he has to take a dozen over the counter pain pills a day which is going to cause more health issues to his organs. There has to be something legally we can do to make these doctors prescribe his pain medicine.
Please help
There is no way to FORCE a doctor to prescribe medicines.

There can be several reasons why the pain medication your husband was receiving for the treatment of his pain is no longer being prescribed. The doctor and the pain specialist may believe your husband no longer needs the medication, or there can be concern over an overuse or abuse of the medicine.

A review of your posting history indicates that your husband was originally prescribed "Lortab" in 2008 (a dose of 7.5 mg) and there was some concern expressed by your husband's employer during the time you lived in Georgia that your husband might have been selling his prescribed pills to others.

Lortab is a Schedule II drug. Not only is there a street value leading to illegal sales, there are also dangerous side effects to those who have been legally prescribed the drug. Prolonged use of the drug is not advised.

Here are links to information on Lortab: https://www.drugs.com/lortab.html and https://www.drugs.com/pro/lortab.html

I think you would be smart to direct your husband to a drug treatment center for what appears to be his addiction to Lortab and other pain medicines.

Good luck.
 
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ajkroy

Member
In addition, most pain specialists utilize alternate methods of relieving pain (nerve blocks, stimulation injections, etc.) that are not opioid-based. It has the added benefit of helping determine who is there for pain and who is there for drugs.
 

amommy

Junior Member
I think you would be smart to direct your husband to a drug treatment center for what appears to be his addiction to Lortab and other pain medicines.

Good luck.
Seriously!!
So you're one of those that thinks everyone is addicted or sells medicine. And if you read my last post his medicine was stolen and the ass holes were trying find any excuses to not investigate and fire him. So do not add JUNK and accusation to a new post that has NOTHING to do with what happened years ago.
I'm not asking you for medical advice, we know what's wrong. According to ACTUAL doctors in 3 other states we have been to, only medicine will help pain and only surgery will fix problem.
My husband has been on and off of Hydro for almost a decade. He is not addicted cause like I said he has been without for over two months and the only side effects there are, is PAIN
He has proven medical issues degenerated disc L4L5 with sublication to sciatic nerve causing radiating pain to both legs, lower and middle back. I wonder how you would do in same situation and all they give you is some pep talk

They are causing pain and suffering and more damage to his body, so technically they are denying him proper care, the only reason the dr gave is he sends all new patients to pain clinic and the reason pain clinic won't is because that is their procedure. Nothing to do with him or his condition, they are just being up tight pricks like most of the PC thanks for participating generation.

So let's just wait till my husband's kidneys are shot or dies from over the counter meds till I can take legal action. Healthcare and Legal Justice in this country have become a joke.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Seriously!!
So you're one of those that thinks everyone is addicted or sells medicine. And if you read my last post his medicine was stolen and the ass holes were trying find any excuses to not investigate and fire him. So do not add JUNK and accusation to a new post that has NOTHING to do with what happened years ago.
Calm. Down.

Do you have any idea how many addicts claim that their meds are stolen so they can get a refill faster? It happens with great frequency and I think you know this. You're blaming the wrong people.

I'm not asking you for medical advice, we know what's wrong. According to ACTUAL doctors in 3 other states we have been to, only medicine will help pain and only surgery will fix problem.
My husband has been on and off of Hydro for almost a decade. He is not addicted cause like I said he has been without for over two months and the only side effects there are, is PAIN
He has proven medical issues degenerated disc L4L5 with sublication to sciatic nerve causing radiating pain to both legs, lower and middle back. I wonder how you would do in same situation and all they give you is some pep talk.
I deal with it every single day. Oh ... you didn't know that? Well, there it is. Now I WILL say that there is HUGE difference between dependency and addiction. I will also say that pain management in this country is woefully inadequate; many doctors are afraid of being sued or penalized and as a result many (perhaps "most" would be more accurate, but I don't have the proof in front of me) patients are under treated and suffer as a result.

HOWEVER. That's not the issue, because in and of itself it's not against the law and it's not going to meet the standards of malpractice.

They are causing pain and suffering and more damage to his body, so technically they are denying him proper care, the only reason the dr gave is he sends all new patients to pain clinic and the reason pain clinic won't is because that is their procedure. Nothing to do with him or his condition, they are just being up tight pricks like most of the PC thanks for participating generation.

So let's just wait till my husband's kidneys are shot or dies from over the counter meds till I can take legal action. Healthcare and Legal Justice in this country have become a joke.
I know you're frustrated, and I know you're angry, but you're letting emotion get the better of you. You know deep down how this works, and I think you're smart enough to recognize and understand that he is not being denied proper care as far as the law is concerned. . You know that. I know you know that.

What your husband needs to do is actually comply with the pain clinic's program requirements. There is no lawsuit here.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Seriously!!
So you're one of those that thinks everyone is addicted or sells medicine. And if you read my last post his medicine was stolen and the ass holes were trying find any excuses to not investigate and fire him. So do not add JUNK and accusation to a new post that has NOTHING to do with what happened years ago.
I'm not asking you for medical advice, we know what's wrong. According to ACTUAL doctors in 3 other states we have been to, only medicine will help pain and only surgery will fix problem.
I made no accusations. I repeated what YOU said in your earlier threads. I have no idea if your husband sold pills or not. I simply said that Lortab has a street value - and it does. And eight years on Lortab can be seen as a problem.

With your latest information, it not only sounds to me as if your husband is addicted to pain medication, it also sounds as if you might be doctor-shopping - trying to find a doctor who will prescribe medication that you and your husband believe is necessary for him to handle his pain. Whether you believe this or not, and as I said in my first post, however, you cannot FORCE a doctor to prescribe medicine.

My husband has been on and off of Hydro for almost a decade. He is not addicted cause like I said he has been without for over two months and the only side effects there are, is PAIN
He has proven medical issues degenerated disc L4L5 with sublication to sciatic nerve causing radiating pain to both legs, lower and middle back. I wonder how you would do in same situation and all they give you is some pep talk

They are causing pain and suffering and more damage to his body, so technically they are denying him proper care, the only reason the dr gave is he sends all new patients to pain clinic and the reason pain clinic won't is because that is their procedure. Nothing to do with him or his condition, they are just being up tight pricks like most of the PC thanks for participating generation.

So let's just wait till my husband's kidneys are shot or dies from over the counter meds till I can take legal action. Healthcare and Legal Justice in this country have become a joke.
Okay. I think if your husband develops or has developed kidney or liver problems, it will probably be traceable to the drug use and not the degenerated disc. I still advise that your husband seek out help from a drug addiction clinic so he can be weaned from drugs that can be dangerous to use over a prolonged period of time. But you can believe what you want and you can do with that advice what you want.

Legally, however, you cannot force a doctor to prescribe medicine. And you can also do with that information what you want.

Good luck.


(I like Proserpina's post)
 
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Proserpina

Senior Member
I made no accusations. I repeated what YOU said in your earlier threads. I have no idea if your husband sold pills or not. I simply said that Lortab has a street value - and it does. And eight years on Lortab can be seen as a problem.

With your latest information, it not only sounds to me as if your husband is addicted to pain medication, it also sounds as if you might be doctor-shopping - trying to find a doctor who will prescribe medication that you and your husband believe is necessary for him to handle his pain. Whether you believe this or not, and as I said in my first post, however, you cannot FORCE a doctor to prescribe medicine.



Okay. I think if your husband develops or has developed kidney or liver problems, it will probably be traceable to the drug use and not the degenerated disc. I still advise that your husband seek out help from a drug addiction clinic so he can be weaned from drugs that can be dangerous to use over a prolonged period of time. But you can believe what you want and you can do with that advice what you want.

Legally, however, you cannot force a doctor to prescribe medicine. And you can also do with that information what you want.

Good luck.


(I like Proserpina's post)

And frankly, OP, I fully agree with quincy's assessment.

I think the OP is more than aware of the reality and knows fine well what's going on and how this whole thing works.
 

commentator

Senior Member
And if he does go into treatment, they will try to help him manage his pain in more productive ways. In the meantime, instead of defending his addiction as she is doing, this poster needs to be in a Nar-anon or Al-anon group because she seems so steeped in enabling her husband and fighting the doctors and the medical system on his behalf. This is not really helping him.

As our medical system goes more and more on line and becomes more and more electronically connected, the doctor you see today will more and more be able to see who you saw last month and tell exactly what you've had prescribed to you and what prescriptions exactly that you've not just been prescribed, but actually had filled in the last ten years, down to how many pills you have actually been given, down to the actual number issued. This is of course going to make it harder and harder for some addicts to doctor shop or actually sell any of their medications without somebody seeing that it's going on.

Ever try to buy any dynamite? This is the direction I think we are going with opiod pain meds, though not fast enough.

Your husband will have more and more trouble finding new doctors who are going to prescribe someone with his kind of history anything but over the counter stuff. By the way, I knew a good person who died by poisoning himself directly with too much over the counter meds when his doctors took him off the pain meds he was so obviously addicted to. This could happen. Which is why you need to get your husband into treatment, get him weaned and adjusted and able to deal with his pain in more productive ways before things get even worse for people who are addicted to pain meds (even though it is through no fault of their own) and it becomes even harder for him to ever get them.
 
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justalayman

Senior Member
Since you said there is treatment to improve or fix the condition causing the pain, why has he not taken that path?

Lortab is a drug that loses it efficacy with continued use. While difficult to bear, it is ultimately better for him to undergo a cessation period of using lortab. It allows your body to reset so a lower (and safer) dosage is as effective as the (likely) higher and higher dosage he required to reach the same level of benefit. In addition, while the efficacy of the drug is reduced with continued use, the lethality remains the same. That is one reason addicts die from the drug; they must continue to take higher and higher dosages to reach their high but the amount required to kill them does not increase. I'm not saying your husband is taking it for non-medical use. Simply explaining that the cessation is not a bad thing for him. The pain does not cause additional injury (as you suggested). It is simply pain.

Your husbands abuse of OTC analgesics will not allow for a legal suit if he experiences organ damage. The harmful side effects are well documented and included on every container and as such, a successful suit for abusing the medication is simply not going to happen.

As you mentioned sending patients to pain clinics for long term treatment of pain is SOP with his current doctor. In today's world it is that way with many doctors. Pain treatment is a specialty so why do you have issue with his doctor sending him to a specialist for treatment? Pain clinics keep a closer watch on the use of meds to treat pain than a PCP generally can. They also can recommend alternate therapies, both medicinal and non-medicinal, that a PCP may not be up to date on. Treating pain is their specialty. While is may seem harsh and cruel to refuse pain meds, you don't seem to realize that is sometimes the best path of treatment.

I have some close associates that have dealt with severe pain for many years. One was weaned from hydro without his knowledge. Although he claimed of severe pain if the hydro was knowingly reduced, upon using a placebo he responded to that just as well for the reduction of pain as actually using hydro. As the dosage of hydro was continually reduced to absolutely none at all, while on the placebo there was no claim of pain like when knowingly removed from hydro. In other words; they had a psychological dependency on the medication. Not saying your husband is in the same boat but it is difficult to determine simply by asking the patient if they are experiencing pain. The mind is a very complicated organ.

The other guy I know has had myriad surgeries to treat his issues. He had an implantable tens unit. He claimed no relief from it and has discontinued its use. He eats pain pills yet he still has severe pain issues. I honestly don't know if he is simply dependent on the meds or his pain is such it does not respond well to the meds. In either case I question his continued use of the specific meds he is currently using. They are not providing the relief he seeks so why is he still using them?

While it is a horrible reality to face, sometimes there just is no treatment for a persons pain. Some pain will never be abated such the patient can live a reasonably pain free life....

And that is why your husband needs to stay with the pain clinic and their directives so he can get the most beneficial treatment for his pain. Lamenting on how this may be malpractice makes you sound more like an enabler to a drug addict than a concerned wife wanting the best treatment for her husband. Whining that lortab is the only treatment that provides benefits is not the attitude of a wife that wants her husbands pain to be managed as best as possible but simply wants to aid him in obtaining hydrocodone, whether you realize what you are doing or not.
 
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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Here is the bottom line: There is no law you can invoke and no way to utilize the legal system that is going to force any doctor to prescribe any medication they do not feel is appropriate. No matter that. Even if they once felt it was appropriate but don't any more.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Since you said there is treatment to improve or fix the condition causing the pain, why has he not taken that path?

Lortab is a drug that loses it efficacy with continued use. While difficult to bear, it is ultimately better for him to undergo a cessation period of using lortab. It allows your body to reset so a lower (and safer) dosage is as effective as the (likely) higher and higher dosage he required to reach the same level of benefit. In addition, while the efficacy of the drug is reduced with continued use, the lethality remains the same. That is one reason addicts die from the drug; they must continue to take higher and higher dosages to reach their high but the amount required to kill them does not increase. I'm not saying your husband is taking it for non-medical use. Simply explaining that the cessation is not a bad thing for him. The pain does not cause additional injury (as you suggested). It is simply pain.
I want to clarify for the OP. Lortab doesn't lose efficacy per se; the patient simply develops a tolerance and it's that tolerance which creates the perceived lack of efficacy.

(It's not semantics or splitting hairs before someone jumps on me; it's a valid and important clarification)

Your husbands abuse of OTC analgesics will not allow for a legal suit if he experiences organ damage. The harmful side effects are well documented and included on every container and as such, a successful suit for abusing the medication is simply not going to happen.
OTC meds are a very important cause of organ damage, absolutely!

As you mentioned sending patients to pain clinics for long term treatment of pain is SOP with his current doctor. In today's world it is that way with many doctors. Pain treatment is a specialty so why do you have issue with his doctor sending him to a specialist for treatment? Pain clinics keep a closer watch on the use of meds to treat pain than a PCP generally can. They also can recommend alternate therapies, both medicinal and non-medicinal, that a PCP may not be up to date on. Treating pain is their specialty. While is may seem harsh and cruel to refuse pain meds, you don't seem to realize that is sometimes the best path of treatment.
I completely agree.

I have some close associates that have dealt with severe pain for many years. One was weaned from hydro without his knowledge. Although he claimed of severe pain if the hydro was knowingly reduced, upon using a placebo he responded to that just as well for the reduction of pain as actually using hydro. As the dosage of hydro was continually reduced to absolutely none at all, while on the placebo there was no claim of pain like when knowingly removed from hydro. In other words; they had a psychological dependency on the medication. .
How was this carried out? The ethical and legal problems with this are massive. The doctor and pharmacist would have to lie to the patient, and since hydro is so tightly controlled I can't see this happening without serious legal - and ethical - ramifications. To use a horrid and common pop-culture phrase ... "I can't even ". Seriously, how did the doctor manage to fudge the script and the distribution?

The other guy I know has had myriad surgeries to treat his issues. He had an implantable tens unit. He claimed no relief from it and has discontinued its use. He eats pain pills yet he still has severe pain issues. I honestly don't know if he is simply dependent on the meds or his pain is such it does not respond well to the meds. In either case I question his continued use of the specific meds he is currently using. They are not providing the relief he seeks so why is he still using them?
There's a difference between dependency and addiction though ...

While it is a horrible reality to face, sometimes there just is no treatment for a persons pain. Some pain will never be abated such the patient can live a reasonably pain free life....
This is unfortunately quite true

And that is why your husband needs to stay with the pain clinic and their directives so he can get the most beneficial treatment for his pain. Lamenting on how this may be malpractice makes you sound more like an enabler to a drug addict than a concerned wife wanting the best treatment for her husband. Whining that lortab is the only treatment that provides benefits is not the attitude of a wife that wants her husbands pain to be managed as best as possible but simply wants to aid him in obtaining hydrocodone, whether you realize what you are doing or not.
I agree with this, too.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Efficacy is in the mind of the pained. I understand your point though.

As to the weaning of the meds; it was done without the knowledge or assistance of the doctor or pharmacist. Strangely enough the Vicodin involved looks identical to an acetaminophen tab available OTC. Unless one is familiar with the markings and actually pays attention to them, they look like the same med. It was orchestrated by friends and family. The pain meds were slowly replaced with acetaminophen until the friend was actually taking no Vicodin. When friend was informed of the ruse oddly enough the pain resurfaced and of course the claimed need for the scrip pain med. At this point the physician was included in the loop who refused to issue a scrip for the Vicodin after that point. Friend has since totally kicked the habit and willingly refuses Vicodin or similar meds to treat pain issues but requests some other type of analgesic be scripted. 👍

To the difference between dependency or addiction. I have not attempted to make that call. I'm not in a position to actively direct him in any particular direction so the difference, to me, is moot in that situation.
 

amommy

Junior Member
I made no accusations. I repeated what YOU said in your earlier threads. I have no idea if your husband sold pills or not. I simply said that Lortab has a street value - and it does. And eight years on Lortab can be seen as a problem.

With your latest information, it not only sounds to me as if your husband is addicted to pain medication, it also sounds as if you might be doctor-shopping - trying to find a doctor who will prescribe medication that you and your husband believe is necessary for him to handle his pain. Whether you believe this or not, and as I said in my first post, however, you cannot FORCE a doctor to prescribe medicine.
You say you are not accusing but you just did and assumed as well. How can anyone give any legal advice when everyone is assuming the worst in everyone. He has been to different Drs in different states because we moved b/c of my job; working for the Army does that sometimes.

Since you said there is treatment to improve or fix the condition causing the pain, why has he not taken that path?
Surgery has a 50% chance of success.

for the record I do not want him to stay on meds it has caused us family/marital problems but so has his condition.
 

quincy

Senior Member
... How can anyone give any legal advice when everyone is assuming the worst in everyone ...
You were given a legal answer. The legal answer is that you cannot make any doctor prescribe medication for your husband.

The advice that you received is extra. You can do with it what you please.

Was there anything else this forum can do for you?
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
You say you are not accusing but you just did and assumed as well. How can anyone give any legal advice when everyone is assuming the worst in everyone. He has been to different Drs in different states because we moved b/c of my job; working for the Army does that sometimes.


Surgery has a 50% chance of success.

for the record I do not want him to stay on meds it has caused us family/marital problems but so has his condition.
Divorce is an option. I suggest you consider that option carefully since you don't sound too happy with your role as caregiver.
 

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